Hague promises Israelis can soon land safely in London

[Swede]

British Foreign Secretary William Hague on Thursday publicly promised to make it safe for Israelis to land in London without risking detention based on complaints of war crimes.

Fearing such detention, as a result of Britain's universal jurisdiction law, top Israeli leaders including opposition head Tzipi Livni and Deputy Prime Minister Dan Meridor have canceled trips to Britain.

"We are acting to correct . As everyone should well know, I was critical of the outgoing Labor government for not correcting it," Hague told Channel 10, during an interview taped during his two day visit to the country.

http://www.jpost.com/Israel/Article.aspx?id=194073

[Violet_Crumble]

1. That must be a relief for war criminals everywhere!

Or does it just apply to Israeli war criminals? I dunno, maybe the article says something about that, but I don't get anything when I click on the link but a login page...

[Swede]

3. I just tried the link and it works ok.

Some sort of glitch?

[Violet_Crumble]

4. It must be some sort of glitch...

I might try it from another computer later on and see if it works from there. It's weird...

[LeftishBrit]

2. I wish BLAIR would be detained for war crimes!

Punishing war criminals could begin at home.

[Violet_Crumble]

5. I doubt Israelis are going to detain their own leaders...

I disagree that arrests need to start at home for that very reason, as no-one would ever be arrested...

Do you know if whatever it is the British govt is doing to fix things so Israeli war criminals can't be arrested also applies to all other war criminals?

[whosinpower]

6. Well....there was, after all

Augusto Pinochet.....and they went to great lengths to protect HIM....as I recall.

[Violet_Crumble]

7. Pinochet was arrested using the same laws that are now being 'fixed' to protect Israelis...

Unless I'm mistaken, Pinochet wasn't protected from being arrested as a war criminal...

[whosinpower]

8. I stand corrected

I remember, with a certain amount of bile in my mouth as Margaret Thatcher defended him....

After doing a bit of reading about his legal troubles - it makes perfect sense that they(the UK) would want to strip the teeth from this law....

snip from wikipedia - There was a hard-fought 16-month legal battle in the House of Lords, the highest court of the United Kingdom.<6> Pinochet claimed immunity from prosecution as a former head of state under the State Immunity Act 1978. This was rejected, as the Lords decreed that some international crimes, such as torture, could not be protected by former head-of-state immunity.<7> The Lords, however, decided in March 1999 that Pinochet could only be prosecuted for crimes committed after 1988, the date during which the United Kingdom implemented legislation for the United Nations Convention Against Torture in the Criminal Justice Act 1988.<8><7> This invalidated most, but not all, of the charges against him; but the outcome was that extradition could proceed. In April 1999, former UK Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher and former US President George H. W. Bush called upon the British government to release Pinochet.<9><10> They urged that Pinochet be allowed to return to his homeland rather than be forced to go to Spain. On the other hand, United Nations High Commissioner of Human Rights, Mary Robinson, hailed the Lords' ruling, declaring that it was a clear endorsement that torture is an international crime subject to universal jurisdiction

So - this game - to me, has very little to do with Livni - and much more to do with protecting certain UK parlimentarians(Tony Blair) and certain American former presidents (George Bush) from being charged - re - torture. Key line - International crimes, such as torture, could not be protected from former head-of-state immunity.

[Violet_Crumble]

9. No, it's got to do with giving Israeli war criminals special treatment...

So - this game - to me, has very little to do with Livni - and much more to do with protecting certain UK parlimentarians(Tony Blair) and certain American former presidents (George Bush) from being charged - re - torture. Key line - International crimes, such as torture, could not be protected from former head-of-state immunity.

As I pointed out, Pinochet was arrested in the UK using the exact same law that the UK govt is now trying to 'fix' so it can't be used against Israeli leaders. If you have any information showing that this 'fixing' of the law makes it so that it applies to all former leaders and not just Israeli ones, I'd be interested in seeing it...

[LeftishBrit]

10. He was protected from trial...

Jack Straw, the Home Secretary of the time, insisted that he should be released and allowed to go back to Chile.

[Violet_Crumble]

11. But he wasn't protected from being arrested in the first place...

Israeli leaders are to be protected from being arrested at all. I'm not sure how they're going to 'fix' the law so that it doesn't apply to war criminals from other countries, though it might have been in the OP and coz there's that annoying auto-redirect happening on the link for me, I haven't read it...

[oberliner]

12. Maybe it does apply universally

Why would it just be Israel?

[eyl]

13. As I understand

the point to this law is that currently anyone can request an arrest warrant for war crimes - which means that often such charges can be entirely politically-driven, by partisan groups. As a result, the evidence bar isn't very high*. The amendment sought to the law is, AFAIK, that such charges can be brought only by a prosecuter, giving a greater degree of veracity and accountability

*And let's not forget that given that we're talking about the arrest of foreign nationals, presumably bail or house arrest are out of the question, so we're talking about incacerating them, possibly on flimsy evidence, until the system gets around to trying them.

see:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-10732977

[Violet_Crumble]

14. Having read the article, I'm not too sure about that change..

While I'm happy to see it's something that applies across the board and just doesn't apply to Israelis, I'm not sure at all about the Crown Prosecutor making the decision on whether an arrest should be made or not. They could just decide to discard applications for arrest that are politically inconvenient for the government...

btw, good to see you again :)

[eyl]

15. OTOH

it prevents a wholesale issuing of warrants as a form of politically-driven harrasment, with little regard to merit (remember that the evidence needed to issue an arrest warrant does not mean that there is enough for an indictment, much less a conviction)

:hi:

[Violet_Crumble]

16. Yeah, I know, but one man's politcally-driven harrasment is another's try for justice...

I'll favour whichever way has the better chance of bringing justice to Mr. Waterboarding Bush if he's heading to the UK to do any book signings. He really does need to be held accountable for the torture he approved while he was President because if that's not the actions of a war criminal, I don't know what is...