Colossus: the giant Gazan prison

[ConsAreLiars]

Gaza "the giant open prison" are not the words of Hosni Mubarak, the Egyptian president. Nor were they scripted by Hamas' Khaled Mishaal or Fatah's Mahmoud Abbas. They belong to David Cameron, the young and charismatic British prime minister.
...
Whether Israel is still an occupying force may be a tired legal red-herring. But the fact remains that Gazans cannot move, eat, watch TV, use the Internet, drive cars, study, work, think of the future, make and raise babies, and literally be, when Israel controls air, sea and land routes in and out of Gaza.

Without the protection of international law, Gaza is effectively treated almost as a homo sacer amongst the community of human entities and international society of cities and states. War, sanctions and a psychologically traumatising siege on 1.5 million human beings render them 'accursed', almost stripped of all rights afforded in and to societies of human congregations in all corners of the world.

Over the last few years Gazans have been placed on a forced collective 'diet', bombed in the middle of the blockade, starved of financial liquidity, causing Gaza to backtrack into an appalling state of sub-human existence.

From an opinion piece by Larbi Sadiki at: http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth/opinion/2010/11/20101138294106415.html

[Voice for Peace]

1. something beautiful for a change

http://tprf.org/browse-articles/52-humanitarian-aid/115-the-gift-of-sight

eye care for children of Gaza

and this is how the world will change. Not by politics.

[proteus_lives]

2. Hilarious.

"The Holocaust belongs to all humanity and demeaned all humanity. It is not the exclusive bastion of Israel."

Really? How many Palestinians lost family in the Holocaust?

Translation: "I'm trying to get a false connection and call Israelis Nazis."

"If somebody was cutting off the electricity and food of my house where my two daughters sleep at night, I would do everything to stop that, and would expect Palestinians to do the same thing."

Translation: "I'm justifying Hamas terror attacks."

And of course, Gaza's troubles have nothing to do with Hamas. Perish the thought.

[henank]

3. Exaggerate much? Emotional over-hype

the fact remains that Gazans cannot move, eat, watch TV, use the Internet, drive cars, study, work, think of the future, make and raise babies, and literally be, when Israel controls air, sea and land routes in and out of Gaza.

This must be one of the funniest things I have read lately.

Hamas plans to build even bigger mall in Gaza

translated page here

And more:

The sight of a brand new Chevrolet with 2010 plates cruising through down town Gaza City begs the question: how on earth did it get there?

...For example, a mid-spec Chevrolet Cruze automatic, which sells in the UK for about £15,000, was on sale at around £30,000.

So, who in Gaza can afford that?

Gaza's middle and upper classes do not feature much in news reports - but they do exist.

This explains why there are swimming pools and water parks, boutique hotels, excellent restaurants and a brand new shopping mall.

They are doing well out of the minority of those lucky enough to have jobs.

The UN estimates that 40% of people here are unemployed.

Of those in work, about a third are on the government payroll and the cultural norm here is that wages are used to take care of the extended family.

That spreads available cash thinly, but the well-stocked supermarkets, luxury goods and new cars show that there is a level of society that can afford them.

That stratum is small but it is wrong to depict all Gazans as spending their lives in abject poverty scrabbling through the ruins of buildings bombed by the Israeli Defence Forces.

The poverty levels seen here can be found in many parts of the Middle East.

[Violet_Crumble]

4. So yr arguing that ordinary Gazan's are doing just fine?

If you are, I'm calling bullshit on that, and if you aren't, then I've got no idea what you think it is yr trying to argue, unless it's that yr quick off the mark with ridiculous propaganda if you sense a chance of trying to make Palestinians look bad. Guess what? That doesn't work, because every time you post responses like you did it makes my disgust with Israel and its 'supporters' just that little bit stronger...

[shira]

6. No, Henank wrote that the article's claims were greatly exaggerated - not that everything is fine.

[azurnoir]

14. Isn't that the very same article you posted here?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=124x328295#337398

[ConsAreLiars]

5. Even your excerpts make the same case as the OP.

The fact that there is a privileged elite somewhere, well, everywhere, says nothing about the life of the ordinary person. And that "there's a mall there!!!" garbage is just evidence of how easily played you are willing to be.

Anyone reading even your article will see the same facts as were observed in the OP. The people of Gaza are being degraded, deprived, and denied basic human rights by a cowardly and thus ruthlessly inhumane occupation force with the help of an utterly murderous and amoral foreign superpower. Both regard and treat them as less than human.

Destroying the orchards and fields, destroying the sewage systems, destroying the schools, denying access to books, destroying the medical facilities and restricting imports of medicines and equipment, destroying the electrical infrastructure and denying access to stuff needed to rebuild it, destroying thousands of homes and refusing cement and glass imports....

OK, I know your brain will shut down and you will begin howling like a batcrazed shira if you even try, but imagine how you would regard and judge those who did such things if the victims were members of YOUR tribe, instead of that other tribe.

[Tripmann]

7. Nobodys being 'played' around here. They're merely grabbing and twisting any information that helps

excuse what has happened in gaza. Like the shopping mall. The fact the photos show lots of people walking around without shopping bags because they've no money is ignored, only the bit that fits their filth spoonfed narrative is acceptable. Is gaza improving? Yes, since the flotilla attack, and even that has more to do with egypt than bibis heart growing 3 sizes. Is it anything like approaching an acceptable standard? No.

10% of children with stunted growth due to israeli malnourishment. School classes being held inside cargo containers, thanks to israeli bombardment and banning building materials. 65% of children born anemic (which will hopefully improve now). Sanitation fucked. Exports banned. But hey, look over there.....A MALL. Everythings fine

[shira]

8. Yes, there's no money in Gaza. That's why stupid shop owners are opening businesses in a big mall..

....hoping to attract only window shoppers who'll never spend money in their stores and buy their products, which will only rot on the shelves.

:eyes:

[arcticken]

9. Now now don't spit on the NARRATIVE.

Years of propaganda have gone into its making.

[Tripmann]

11. The only thing being spit on on this liberal board are the imprisoned and oppressed people of gaza.

Guess some people are happy to drop saliva on malnourished children while they wait for the bombs to start dropping again.

[Crunchy Frog]

20. Yes, but it's their own fault

for existing on land that God gave to somebody else, and for having a bad reaction to perpetual occupation. If they would just go away everything would be fine.

[shira]

21. Their leaders rejected peace deals in 2000 and 2008 and responded with suicide bombings...

...and rockets instead.

With either peace deal, settlements and occupation would be a thing of the past and the Palestinians would have their own state, moving on with their lives.

Ever think about that?

In case you don't get it, WHY would oppressed people turn down an offer to have their own state, which would end the settlements and occupation - and in response counter with suicide bombings and rockets?

What do they really want?

Israel withdrew from Gaza and Lebanon and got war. What else can Israel realistically do?

:shrug:

[Tripmann]

10. I heard mugabe built a new palace. Guess zimbabwes donig just great too, right shira?

[shira]

19. The argument isn't that all is great in Gaza, it's that what's reported is exaggerated...

You know, like BS claims of starvation and humanitarian crises that are used to reinforce ugly stereotypes against a certain ethnic group.

Here's Gaza in September 2010...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1a6faeIZG4

Not exactly a concentration camp, is it?

Meanwhile in Israel, if you're logically consistent, there's still starvation and an ongoing humanitarian crisis there...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=124x334119#337179

That's not an exaggeration, now is it? Or do you deny a crisis in Israel?

All is GREAT there!

:shrug:

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[shira]

23. Get back to me once you formulate some thoughts on that video of Gaza from Sep 2010...

Let's see how you react to reality.

Also, your sanctimonious faux concern for Palestinians is disgusting. No one here is fooled by that crap.

[Tripmann]

24. Faux concern like you have for Pal refugees but don't have for the kids whos bombing you condone?

LOL! Try it on one of the new people sweetheart. The regulars know your M.O.

[Tripmann]

25. And how can any liberal have 'faux concern' for the suffering of innocents. Suffering YOU excuse.

Says it all really.

[shira]

26. It's not about concern for you - it's about bashing Israel and Zionists, ugly stereotyping.

[Name removed]

29. Deleted message

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[shira]

30. Israel's not doing that - in fact it's your belief Israel should just take rockets

...on its people and pretend all is well.

Not enough Israelis have died from rockets to warrant any response, as far as you're concerned.

Did you ever figure out why your dear Mary Robinson did a 180 by refuting her prior sliming and defamation of Israel?

[Name removed]

32. Deleted message

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[shira]

33. Anything Israel does in response is a war crime in your opinion so that is what you believe. n/t

[Tripmann]

34. More bullshit.I stated a response that would NOT be a war crime and you know it. Why dishonesty?

Can you not bring anything to the table other than third rate false accuations that people on here have seen me tear apart several times.

[shira]

37. Deny all you want - no one here takes you seriously. n/t

[Tripmann]

38. LOL! You condone one group of Palestinians suffering & condemn another group of pals suffering.

If it jews causing the suffering to palestinians its 'rockets,hamas,mufti' etc. but when its muslims causing the suffering you're 'concerned liberal of the year 2010'

Then you accuse ME of "faux concern" :rofl:

Let me ask you something. If somebody condoned the suffering of black people under apartheid in south africa, but condemned the treatment of black south african refugees by other black nations............what would it say?

[Name removed]

40. Deleted message

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[Tripmann]

43. You refuse to condemn the israeli siege and the suffering it caused. If I'm wrong condemn it now...

And whats 'legitimate israeli defense' about banning childrens shoes?

Why do you support a siege that deprived children of shoes for 2 and a half years?

[shira]

46. I don't believe a blockade that prevents terror weapons that would lead to far more destruction...

...on both sides is anything deserving of condemnation.

Face it, if it were up to you Hamas would load up with more weapons and that would be okay with you - despite the destruction it would cause (mostly to Palestinians in response).

Your position is pro-war, and for someone who purports to care for Palestinians, your mask slips once again because the damage done to Palestinians by letting Hamas build up their weapons dwarfs that done by any Israeli blockade.

[Tripmann]

48. So you condone the siege and the suffering caused. Point proven, thank you.

[shira]

51. So you're for more suffering, war, chaos that would ensue with Hamas stockpiling weapons. Got it!

[Tripmann]

52. I'm not the one condoning the suffering of innocent women & children. That would be you.

[shira]

54. Riiiight, you're for the pro-peace position of allowing Hamas to stockpile better rockets...

...that will hit larger population centers within Israel which will then force a response by Israel, resulting in FAR MORE Palestinian casualties.

You should be so proud of yourself for that position.

It would result in so much less suffering for Palestinians...

:eyes:

[Tripmann]

62. Another accusation you can't prove.Have you no shame?Or did it die along with gazan kids during OCL?

[shira]

68. Come on, be honest now....

What should Israel do to prevent Hamas from stockpiling more dangerous rockets?

Anything at all?

[Tripmann]

70. The blockade could have intercepted ONLY materials used for making rockets,instead of collectively

punishing innocent women and children.

Why do you support the collective punishment of innocent women and children anyway?

[shira]

72. So you're for a blockade? n/t

[Tripmann]

73. I'd have no objections to israel checking goods entering gaza for rocket materials if UN inspectors

were present to make sure all other items passed through unimpeded.

But we both know the blockade was also for the purpose of collective punishment and dehumanisation of innocent people, so lets not frame it as something its not.

[shira]

27. You have no concern for Pal'n refugees, which proves my point. n/t

[Tripmann]

28. Oh really, prove it. This should be a good laugh.....

[shira]

31. No amount of fact or logic is enough to prove anything to you, so what's the point?

Speaking of a good laugh, why don't you try proving I condone bombing and starving innocents?

[Tripmann]

35. So, ANOTHER accusation you can't prove. No wonder you're claims are SO credible around here!

:rofl:

[shira]

39. Oh, I can prove it. You just can't admit it.

The refugees and their descendants, like all others who have been absorbed by other countries since WW2, should be citizens of the countries they live in, and not living in camps.

62 years is enough.

You're against that.

[Tripmann]

42. I'm against the treatment of the palestinian refugees. I've stated it before. So why claim I'm not?

Have you got anything other than falsehoods?

[shira]

44. See? You can't admit it. If it were up to you Palestinians would rot in camps another 62 years.

Because it's their "collective right" to return to Israel, isn't it?

:eyes:

[Name removed]

45. Deleted message

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[shira]

47. I thought you said you cared for Palestinians and the refugees. Guess you were outed again.

Can't bash countries for their treatment of Palestinians unless it's Israel, right?

Yeah, you care.

:eyes:

What's wrong Tripmann, 62 years of refugees living without any rights in camps isn't enough for you?

[Tripmann]

49. My record on here speaks for itself. I condemn mistreatment of ALL palestinians. You excuse it every

chance you get. And given the way israel acts, thats a lot of chances. A lot of excusing of crimes against humanity.

[shira]

50. But you're proving yourself wrong right now as you're for Palestinians remaining refugees...

...for as long as it takes, maybe another 62 years.

So you don't condemn all mistreatement of Palestinians.

You're excusing it.

[Tripmann]

53. I'm for palestinians remaining refugees, am I? Can you prove THAT accusation?

[shira]

55. You could have replied honestly to post #39 and #47 above...

...but you've avoided the questions.

Why?

Aren't 62 years of refugee camps enough for the original refugees and their offspring?

[shira]

56. Here's what you believe WRT refugees, Tripman. Your words...

http://upload.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=124&topic_id=331118&mesg_id=331391

You wouldn't want to deny Palestinians their collective justice, would you?

:shrug:

I guess 62 years in camps isn't enough suffering for Palestinians in your view.

[Name removed]

61. Deleted message

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[shira]

67. All you have to type is that you believe the refugees should have been absorbed...

...by their host countries long ago, or at least given that choice if they wanted it.

You have yet to do so.

That says it all, really.

[Name removed]

69. Deleted message

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[shira]

71. This is about your hypocrisy and faux concern since you say you bash Israel...

...based on your liberal concern and compassion for Palestinian victims.

This pretense of yours is quite disgusting.

Says a lot about your 'criticism' of Israel, which clearly is NOT based on concern for the oppression, suffering, and misery of Palestinians.

You're actually FOR that when it comes to Palestinians (refugees in this case) victimized by their fellow Arabs!

[Name removed]

74. Deleted message

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[alanquatermass]

12. More sophistry...

-- and it really makes me sick.

Twist and spin the "facts" all you want to, they still won't resemble the Truth.

[Celtic Merlin]

75. Thank You, Tripman, for the bit of sanity that blows this moronic "mall" bullshit out of the water.

The "grabbing and twisting" of information is a tactic which some fall for, but one which people who are familiar with the Siege of Gaza know is a crock of shit. Your figures on the stunted growth and anemia among the CHILDREN of Gaza due to the "Gaza Diet" imposed upon those people by Israel are accurate. That's the part of this that creeps me out the most - Israel doesn't seem to care that they are starving CHILDREN as well as the adults. What have these kids ever done to Israel besides being born Palestinian?

The problem is that those who defend everything which Israel does can't answer the charges of malnourishment (essentially slow starvation) due to the Israeli policies imposed upon those people, so they post shit like that moronic "mall" article and other distractive stupidity which does nothing to help the situation - only perpetuate it. FOOD isn't a weapon which can be turned against Israel, but it IS a weapon which Israel can use against the Palestinians imprisoned in the Gaza Strip. If the taxpayers of America could take a tour of the Gaza Strip and then go for a ride through Israel, they'd DEMAND that the $3 BILLION we ship to Israel every year be diverted to the Palestinians for the next 20 years. But you won't see pictures of the Gaza Prison Camp on American TV or read articles in American newspapers about the conditions being imposed upon the prisoners confined there. No, you'll see only the thin veneer of "the Middle East is just fine, move along" in our media. But the European press isn't so timid. Nor is the United Nations.

Yes, Gaza most certainly IS the largest open-air prison camp ever erected on the face of this planet. The people responsible (irresponsible?) for the welfare of those prisoners seem to be doing everything they can think of to slowly kill off the people for whom they are SUPPOSED to be caring.

For those of you who aren't so familiar with this situation, Google "Gaza Diet" - but be prepared to be horrified by what you read. The article on Mondoweiss may cause you to vomit in disgust over the Israeli policy of starving these people - ever . . . . . so . . . . . slowly.

Celtic Merlin
Carlinist

[Violet_Crumble]

13. What!? There's a privileged elite??

What sort of evil plot is this to try to make us think that the population of Gaza are suffering?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1Y73sPHKxw

Our sympathy must go where it's deserved, like towards the suffering population of Haiti....

Hold on. I just found out that there's a privileged elite in Haiti as well. To show what compassionate and caring LW types we are, I urge us all to spread thoughout DU, jumping into any thread showing sympathy for the suffering of Haitians and posting the following link!

http://articles.latimes.com/2010/jan/21/world/la-fg-haiti-elites21-2010jan21

;)

[ConsAreLiars]

15. Yes, and such a revelation this news is!

And the "reasoning" that argues that the presence of a privileged elite is evidence that everything is just fine and dandy and certainly not oppressive, well, that was sheer genius, or something.

Sometimes it seems there is a contest here for the "How dumbass stupid can you be in justifying injustice?" award for the day. The prizes must be awarded elsewhere, but the competition here is fierce and determined, and there seem to be no limits on what is allowed as an entry.

[Violet_Crumble]

16. There seems to be two tactics in dealing with the suffering of Gazans...

The first, and the one that seems to be used by many, is to just ignore anything about the suffering of Gazans and not say anything. The second, and clearly the most callous and mean-spirited approach, is to make a lot of noise and point to the elite upper-class as proof that the population of Gaza isn;t suffering.

[ConsAreLiars]

17. A third, included in the first two,

is that when the lessers challenge the land-rights said to be dog-given by holy texts and tribal oral traditions of the fully humans over the "other" tribes, they just are claiming their dog is bigger and better than the others' dog. Calling that sort of thinking insanity seems to offend a mod or two, so I'll merely point out that there is no basis in fact or evidence for that claim, and right and wrong have little to do with measuring Zeus or Thor versus Ra or Kali or one collection of essays and jackass moralizing over another,

[azurnoir]

18. and the mean spirited well there is something about that huge new mall

it's been in the planning stage for over 2 years but more over there is something about where it is supposedly going to be built, you have to read it to see the common thread

Exclusive: 'No' to UNRWA school ‘near Hamas base'

The United Nations Relief and Work Agency asked for permission to build several schools in the Tel al-Hawa neighborhood in southern Gaza City, according to details obtained by The Jerusalem Post.

The request was submitted to the Defense Ministry in line with current Israeli policy to approve international projects in Gaza after they have received the approval of donor nations and the Palestinian Authority.

Since Israel eased the blockade on the Gaza Strip in July, the office of the Coordinator of Government Activities in the Territories has approved 70 international projects – including the renovation of a sewage treatment plant, the construction of 151 housing units and eight new schools.

But when the Defense Ministry received the UNRWA request for the new schools and checked their planned location, defense officials said they were alarmed to discover that the UN had planned to build the schools adjacent to a Hamas military installation.

<snip>

The Defense Ministry contacted UNRWA and asked if it was aware that Hamas maintained a military installation nearby. The answer the Defense Ministry received was “yes,” according to Israeli officials, with UNRWA acknowledging that Hamas had allocated the land for the schools.

http://www.jpost.com/Israel/Article.aspx?id=192368

how thoughtful to have only the safety of Gaza's children in mind, it is not like Israel would ever deny Gaza's young people a chance at education

well except

UNRWA response to Jerusalem Post article

25 October 2010

Dear Sir,

UNRWA response to Jerusalem Post articleYour story of Friday, “No to UNRWA school near Hamas base”, should have been headlined “No to UNRWA schools replacing former Hamas base”.

The Israeli authorities are denying UNRWA permission to build two schools in a heavily built-up residential area of Gaza City allegedly because the site of the proposed schools is next to a Hamas installation. This is completely false.

In fact there was a pre-Cast Lead Hamas base at the site in question (a former Palestinian Authority security base) which was completely destroyed by Israeli air strikes in Cast Lead. When UNRWA subsequently, and with the support of the local community, made plans to build the two new schools and secured the site, Hamas removed the last makeshift shack they had established adjacent to the area.

<snip>

Again, I provide photographs of the site totally destroyed by the Israeli military as well as photos of the surrounding areas clearly showing them to be residential. I challenge Mr Katz to provide UNRWA and your readers with the exact address and current photographs of the alleged “Hamas military installation”. If he fails to do this, he must stand guilty of being used by his IDF sources yet again of purveying falsehoods about UNRWA’s humanitarian work in Gaza; work which, as I have argued many times in these pages, is in Israel’s interests.

http://www.unrwa.org/etemplate.php?id=832

now I became curious about you piece on the new Gaza mall so I Googled the title and first up was this it is from a site I'm not sure you would familiar with or approve of, but it is somewhat clearer than the Google translation of Arabic

New Mall Planned for Gaza

Hamas has announced that a new mall will be built in the Gaza Strip. Yusuf Mansi, Minister of Housing and Public Works of the Hamas government in the Gaza Strip, told Gaza-based news agency Safa on Thursday that his office is currently on a plan to build a new mall. The 44-acre mall will be located in Gaza City and will be the largest shopping center in the Strip, said Mansi.

The mall will be built on land that was established in 1929 by the British Mandate as the region’s military headquarters, and as of 1948 served as the headquarters of the Egyptian military governor. Beginning in 1967 the same land served as headquarters of the Israeli military governor until the establishment of the Palestinian Authority in 1994, which turned the place into its security headquarters. The area was bombed by the Israeli Air Force during Operation Cast Lead in December of 2008 and was almost completely destroyed.

According to the report, a decision to destroy the security headquarters was arrived at already in July 2008 by Hamas Prime Minister Ismail Haniyah.The demolition by Israel only caused the preparations for new construction on the land to speed up. Several months before the Gaza war, a workshop was held to discuss the proposed development plans. The workshop was attended by representatives from universities and municipalities as well as by investors. During a recent cabinet meeting held on October 26, the Ministry of Housing and Public Works was given the task of taking over the area and conduct research in preparation for the execution of the building plan. Mansi told Safa said that contacts are being made at the present time with potential investors, and in any case the intention is to rent the commercial space and not sell them.

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/140470

[shira]

36. Seems the mean-spirited tactics are the reverse of what you describe...

1. Israel must be able to respond to rockets and suicide bombing attacks against its civilians. Since you believe anything Israel does is collective punishment, oppressing Palestinians, etc.. then it's your belief Israel should do nothing in response and its civilians should just 'take it'.

2. This video from Sep 2010 shows it's not just the upper-class elite of Gaza able to live life with some normalcy....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1a6faeIZG4



Exaggerating the actions of Israel against Gazans works against the Palestinian cause, like the boy who cried wolf.

[Mosby]

41. Take a look at life expectancies

Gaza ranks above Egypt, Turkey, Iraq, Iran, Yemen and only a couple spots below SA.

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2102rank.html

[Violet_Crumble]

57. What's yr point?

What does life expectancies have to do with whether the population of Gaza is suffering at the hands of Israel? If I could be bothered taking who you were replying to off ignore, I'd possibly get some clue as to *why* yr going on about life expectancies, but I've got them on ignore for a reason and I've got no intention of taking them off ignore to try to work out why you said that...

[Mosby]

58. There must exist a large middle class in Gaza

that is contributing to the life expectancy numbers, which is more or less based on public heath, diet and access to medical care.

This middle class is also responsible for the economic growth in the area, not a so called "privileged elite".

[Violet_Crumble]

59. I'm sure there is a middle class, but anyone who claims they're faring well is full of shit...

Life expectancy numbers from some website do NOT mean Gazans aren't suffering at the hands of Israel. Trying to argue otherwise is pathetic. Just to give an example of how pathetic it is to try to claim life expectancy listed on that site means that there's a good quality of life in Gaza, the Solomon Islands are listed as having a higher life expectancy than Gaza. Life's not good there. It's been torn apart by civil war and my brother saw things when he served there that gave him nightmares for a long time after he got home. But, hey. Let's ignore all that in order to try to play some stupid game trying to make people believe the population of Gaza isn't suffering.

You make me sick.

[Name removed]

60. Deleted message

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[Mosby]

63. Yeah, and pointing that out seems to really upset them.

would it kill people to at least be polite?

[Violet_Crumble]

64. Pointing what out? If you've got something to say about what I said, say it to me...

If you object to being told you make me sick, make sure you hit alert on it. I'm just copying the exact words of one of yr fellow pro-Israeli posters in another thread that wasn't deleted after being alerted on, so it's not aimed at you personally...

Now, could you explain to me why you ignored everything else I said in my post? Y'know the stuff about the Solomon Islands and life expectancy? Why is it that yr so intent on trying to make out that the population of Gaza isn't suffering? There's defending Israel at all costs, and then there's just plain pathetic and mean-spirited. Banging heads against walls insisting all's fine with the population of Gaza doesn't make it true no matter how many times it's rinsed and repeated...

[azurnoir]

65. you forgot to mention what else it's base on aCIA "guesstimate " n/t

[shaayecanaan]

66. Plenty of Mercedes rolling around Kinshasa...

quite a few in Khartoum as well. I am not sure if that is a persuasive argument that there is no humanitarian crisis in either the Congo or Sudan.

I imagine the car was brought in through the tunnels, which probably explains the 100% markup.

So, who in Gaza can afford that?

Not many, I presume.