Just who is misguided?

[Donald Ian Rankin]

What's next? We young Jews don't back down, our numbers are growing and we will win. Israel will change its cruel, self-destructive behavior.

By Matthew A. Taylor


When North American Jews gathered in New Orleans for their annual General Assembly earlier this week, the mainstream Jewish establishment unveiled a new initiative to counteract the growing international condemnation of Israel's policies of occupation and land theft. The big plan: delegitimize the delegitimizers.

The Jewish Federations of North America announced at the conference that over the next three years they will invest $6 million to launch an "Israel Action Network." Based on speakers' comments at the GA, the strategy seems to be to tar and feather virtually anyone who supports any form of boycott, divestment or sanctions (BDS ) as a "delegitimizer" who is participating in an alleged plot to "destroy the State of Israel." Instead of spending millions to persuade Israel to change its path, the JFNA prefers to shoot the messengers.

Meanwhile, a few days before the assembly, the U.S.-based advocacy group Jewish Voice for Peace (JVP ) convened a gathering of young Jews from the U.S. and Israel to explore difficult questions that the mainstream leadership seems eager to avoid, such as: How does the occupation delegitimize Israel? When Israel bulldozes Palestinian homes, uproots olive trees, and builds roads designated for settlers only, is that consistent with the Jewish value of respecting your neighbor?

This young group of Jewish activists seems to be an embodiment of Peter Beinart's recent essay in The New York Review of Books, which explored why Israel's oppressive policies cause young American Jews to feel alienated. " imbibed some of the defining values of American Jewish political culture ... a skepticism about military force, a commitment to human rights ... They did not realize that they were supposed to shed those values when it came to Israel," Beinart wrote in his piece, "The Failure of the American Jewish Establishment."

...

Continued at http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/opinion/just-who-is-misguided-1.324334

[shira]

1. Jewish Voice for Peace and AFSC Formally Admit It-- They Are Opposed to the Existence of Israel

http://www.bluetruth.net/2010/01/jewish-voice-for-peace-and-afsc.html

At a pro-Hamas demonstration in San Francisco last week, Jewish Voice for Peace and the American Friends Service Committee finally dropped all pretense about their position on Israel. While both of these groups had been vigorously involved in anti-Israel activities for years (and joined together to co-present the now-notorious showing of "Rachel" last summer at the San Francisco Jewish Film Festival), each had maintained the pretense that they didn't oppose the existence of a Jewish state per se. They have now decided to admit what we knew all along-- that they are fully and completely aligned with groups that openly call for the elimination of Israel, and that they share the agenda of groups such as al-Awda, International ANSWER, and, in the end, Hamas.

This flyer was handed out at the event; the sponsoring organizations listed include JVP and the Pacific Mountain Region of the American Friends Service Committee. The website of the Bay Area Campaign to End Israeli Apartheid not only endorses the Palestinian BDS movement (which calls for the elimination of Jewish statehood through the so-called "right" of return), but in case anyone misses the subtlety, it also states "We are opposed to imperialism, sectarianism, and Zionism."

Extremist groups such as al-Awda and ANSWER have at least been straightforward about their position-- opposition to any Jewish state while supporting terrorism as "legitimate resistance". JVP and AFSC have been trying for years to claim that they can stand with those groups in public and not pick up their foul stench. They have now given up that charade. JVP should simply complete the task and merge with the so-called "Jewish Anti-Zionist Network", since their positions are now indistinguishable. Perhaps their membership already is.

[Name removed]

2. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[shira]

4. I'm assuming you really don't get it...

...but being anti-Zionist (claiming Israel is an apartheid, racist state...) and backing Palestinian BDS (with full RoR that would destroy Israel) is definitely being against the existence of Israel.

You're no different.

Even if Israel does everything it can possibly do, short of slitting its own throat, you'd still argue along with Israel's enemies that it's illegitimate, evil, unworthy of ever being created and therefore open to ongoing and everlasting resentment, intolerance, and inevitably more conflict and war. The antithesis of what a peace activist would advocate. Even without an occupation or settlement enterprise, Israel will never be regarded by you as a legitimate, liberal democracy.

Imputing the very worst and ugliest motives to 'Zionists' and the Zionist movement while NEVER finding anything that is right with Israel (as Israel is always wrong) is a proof positive Israel disgusts you and that the world would be better off without it.

[alanquatermass]

7. Shira, how, exactly, do you explain so many UN condemnations against Israel???

This is from the UK's Guardian newspaper a little over a year ago -- September, 2009.

"Israel targeted 'the people of Gaza as a whole' in the three-week military operation which is estimated to have killed more than 1,300 Palestinians at the beginning of this year, according to a UN-commissioned report published yesterday."

Hear that, Shira? They went ahead and "targeted the people of Gaza as a whole"!

Who was saying that -- Lady Tonge? Or the reincarnation of Yasser Arafat, perhaps? No. Just a little collection of countries called the United Nations.

Here is another news snippet, this one from USA Today just FIVE MONTHS AGO:

"UNITED NATIONS (AP) — The U.N. Security Council called early Tuesday for an 'impartial' investigation of Israel's deadly commando raid on ships taking humanitarian aid to the Gaza Strip and condemned the 'acts' that resulted in the loss of at least nine lives."

Uh oh, Shira -- what's this?! Why, according to the United Nations, Israeli commandos raided a ship taking "humanitarian aid to the Gaza strip."

Now maybe specific INDIVIDUALS are "against the existence of Israel"...

And maybe... just MAYBE... certain NATIONS are too...

But the whole U.N.???

Unlikely.

Face it, Shira. The sad truth is that Israel, time and again, has been bringing global censure upon itself.

[shira]

11. You mean like "Zionism = Racism"?

The UN is mostly run by 3rd world nations bought off by Saudi oil. When a bloc of 50-80 countries always outvotes western democracies (one vote for each nation) then you get idiotic Zionism = Racism resolutions.

See this:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=124x276758#276770

You're a cultural relativist, so it's likely you have no problem with the UN praising Sri Lanka for killing off 20,000 civilians at the same time OCL was going on in Gaza.

Here's more...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/may/28/un-sri-lanka-ban-ki-moon

"Cultural Relativism" gone wild.

:eyes:

[howard112211]

16. "Zionism = Racism" is derived from the statement "Right to return for Arabs = Death of Israel"

What other logical explanation exist, for saying that allowing the Arabs who were forced off their lands to return would be the equal to the destruction of Israel, other than that the person saying it is a racist of the purest form, akin to those who argued Germans have the right to force Russians of their land to "create living space"?

The right to return is something deeply just. Any opposition to it is bigotry. It is really as simple as that.

[shira]

17. Right, it would only mean Hamas or the PLO in power after elections...

...and then no more liberal democracy, another failed state like Syria, no basic human rights for Palestinians (like now), not to mention Jews who'd have even fewer.

How can any liberal be against that?

:shrug:

[ProgressiveMajority]

19. Disagree. A "right of return"has nothing to do either way with Lebensraum

If anything, bringing Lebensraum up weakens the argument for ROT. Lebensraum was the belief that the status quo should be changed, and Russians and Poles forced out and the area settled by Germans. Being for a right of return is also the belief that the status quo should be changed.

THE CLOSEST European Parallel to the Palestinian ROT would be Polish people demanding the right to return to former eastern Poland.



OR, Finnish people demanding the right of return to the areas stolen by Russia after Russia invaded Finland for no reason in 1939. But neither of these comparisons make any sense because Poles nor Finns would through the resettlement become the Majority in Russia or where-ever.

All that said, I do believe in the right of return. It's the moral thing to do especially because so many Palestinians do in fact want to return. It probably would mean an end to Israel, in many senses. If Israel were majority Arab I doubt they'd keep the name "Israel" and they probably would just merge the whole of Palestine. But that would be the right thing to do, and advocates of a ROT should stop denying reality, because the existence of a "jewish" state is racist and unjust.

[Jim Sagle]

25. I'm not Shira, but I'll explain the UN recommendations: The UN ain't nuthin' but shit.

[Ken Burch]

27. If you're ACTUALLY Jewish, you should regard the actions of the IDF

as a betrayal of everything you stand for.

Why do you make THIS the one issue you're a reactionary on?

It's not as if the Israeli government has no alternative but to crush Palestinians.

[Jim Sagle]

28. On the contrary, the UN is now a betrayal of everything IT was supposed to stand for.

[Ken Burch]

31. Why should the U.N. have felt obligated to take Israel's side AGAINST the Palestinians

Palestinians were always the more victimized side in the exchanges between the two groups.

The victimization of the groups Israel supposedly represents was committed almost exclusively by Europeans.

There was never an Arab equivalent of Caesar, Torquemada, the tsars or Hitler.

[Jim Sagle]

32. I/P is not so onesided as you insist.

But I was referring more to the fact that the UN seems to concern itself with little else BUT I/P.

[Ken Burch]

33. Palestinians and Arabs have made some mistakes

And I consider their leaders neither infallible nor saintly. It's just that I don't believe, as you seem to, that the choices of past Palestinian leaders justify the immiseration of the Palestinian people of today OR make it it anathema to criticize the Israeli government. That government is made up of ordinary, fallible human beings like any other government, and the motives of those who lead it are just as open to questioning and skepticism as the motives of any other set of politicians.

Perhaps the focus the U.N. has placed on the matter reflects the fact that the U.N. realizes it helped create this situation, that it owes the Palestinians for not having considered their views in the late 1940's, and that it has an obligation to rectify any injustices its past actions may have caused.

As to "onesided", I'd say it's YOU who sees it as onesided. In the whole time I've participated in this forum, I've never seen you criticize the IDF or the Israeli government for anything they've ever done. What I and others here have seen from you, by contrast, is a constant attempt to silence any debate on the Occupation, the settlements or any other matters pertaining to the I/P issue. And you've been quoted in other forums admitting that it's your objective to shut down the I/P forum here on DU and bar any discussion of the I/P issue on DU at all.

Why do you wish to do that? It certainly can't be progressive in any sense to prevent any debate or discussion of what's been done to the Palestinian people. Nor is it wise to give any group of politicians in ANY country a free pass to do whatever they want without any fear of it being questioned here. Israeli politicians don't deserve that any more than any other politicians anywhere else.
Nor is it good for the Israeli people, since the status quo in the West Bank ultimately destabilizes their situation.

[ishaneferguson]

34. Oil (Petrodollars)

C8H18 OIL

How do you explain Senator Landrieu tripping all over herself to call for the full return to the status quo ante in the Gulf --- or why did Congressman Joe Barton capologize to BP. --- C8H18 OIL
Come on ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, children of all ages -- C8H18 OIL

Click on over to http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=115">DU Environment and Energy

[azurnoir]

3. first it should be noted that "blue" in this case is NOT a referrance to the Democratic party

this si a copy of the flier that stars in the article

[azurnoir]

5. Just in case

post #3 contained a copy of the flier in post #1

[proteus_lives]

8. And no mention of Hamas. Shocking.

Of course, they had no hand in this.

None.

What so ever.

[Name removed]

9. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[shira]

10. Blue Truth is run by a lifelong liberal who always votes Democrat.

Of course I realize some here think liberals who are pro-Israel are really Rightwingers in disguise.

[Name removed]

12. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

13. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Violet_Crumble]

6. Supporters of Nutty and the settlers are violent thugs...

'The fifth and final protester, Rae Abileah, a Jewish American activist of Israeli descent, stood up and proclaimed: "The settlements betray Jewish values." Members of the crowd tackled her, shoved a towel in her mouth, and then chanted "Bibi, Bibi, Bibi" in unison.'

Attacking a protester is the stuff of Tea-baggers in the US. Disgusting behaviour...

btw, for anyone who doesn't know about Jewish Voice for Peace, here's their website. http://www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org/

Along with One Voice and J-Street, they're a group that seeks a peaceful end to the conflict that's fair to both Israelis and Palestinians and groups like that should be supported by all at DU who are interested in peace...

[shira]

14. Recent video footage from "Jewish Voice for Peace"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUVEM9ELGsI&feature=player_embedded

A rather disgusting lot of bigots and haters.

[azurnoir]

15. Quote from the video: Do you condem the Hamas flotilla that sent weapons to Israel?

Huh Hamas flotilla okkkk? But be sure to check out the youtube posters channel here's a link

http://www.youtube.com/user/a12iggymom

[shira]

18. Well, at least it seems you realize these activists are absolute bigots and haters. n/t

[azurnoir]

20. yep that activist interviewer did seem quite bigoted n/t

[shira]

21. Yeah - the interviewer is the bigot, not the people in the video. Can't say I'm surprised. n/t

[azurnoir]

23. the people in the video ranged from annoyed to intimidated

especially the women who actually looks frightened, however it was his treatment of the Asian man that he fires questions at then claims is an illiterate dupe, as more and more people either tell him to "buzz off" or answer him without ever looking at him he becomes more and more agitated and outlandish in his questions, by the end of vid I was asking myself "where are Chicago's finest when you need them"? Or wait will his removal for running around harassing and intimidating people be Pt2 ?

[shira]

26. You seriously don't believe the people interviewed in that video were bigots or haters? n/t

[Violet_Crumble]

22. The Abortion Is Genocide one was really good!

Don't bother watching the videos, the little blurbs are hilarious. Check out this one!:

'The radical left is revolting in their callous disregard for human life. From Hitler to Mao, from Stalin to Margaret Sanger, leftists value human life as being worth infinitely less than it actually is.
This puts a twist on the old 'overpopulating' hoax; she calls having lots of kids 'littering.' Like a good little Nazi, she is using a broad brush, equating human life with garbage, and not to make a point about how some group offends her; she's referring to young human life, period, as garbage, litter, refuse. And she says it like it's self-evident.
All young people should be up in arms over this, considering more than half their population has been wiped out in the abortion genocide, that those who are left are not Litter.'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5R0cJoyRXY

Margaret Sanger? Abortion genocide? This is funny shit!

[oberliner]

24. "Don't bother watching the videos"

And so it goes...

[azurnoir]

29. why do reply to someone who has you on ignore?

as to the vids IMO the one posted on this thread should definitely be viewed, it is a monument to the harassment some must endure but as for me I might start going to demonstrations I would love to encounter one these cell phone camera wielding creeps who harass and intimidate people.

[oberliner]

30. Pretty sure no one here has me on ignore

I agree with you - they should be viewed.