Rabin's son presents his Israeli Peace Initiative

[oberliner]

Yuval Rabin, the son of the late prime minister Yitzhak Rabin, has joined forces with businessman and social activist Koby Huberman in order to advocate for the Israeli Peace Initiative, or IPI, a response to the 2002 Arab Peace Initiative.

In an article published in the Web site bitterlemons.org, Rabin and Huberman propose that instead of responding to the APA, the Israeli government should say "yes" by presenting a parallel proposal to end the conflict – the IPI.

The two have spent several months promoting the IPI among political figures, academics, and businessmen in Israel and at the same time tested the reaction of Palestinian and Arab figures to the principles of the initiative in an unofficial manner.

The detailed IPI proposal will be soon published in English, Hebrew, and Arabic, and the principles outlined are the following:

1. A viable Palestinian state based on the 1967 borders and one-on-one land swaps
2. Jerusalem as the home of two capitals and special arrangements in the holy basin
3. An agreed solution for the refugees inside the Palestinian state (with symbolic exceptions)
4. Mutual recognition of the genuine national identities of the two states as the outcome of negotiations and not as a prerequisite
5. Reiteration of the principles underlying Israel's 1948 declaration of independence regarding civic equality for its Arab citizens
6. Long-term security arrangements with international components.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/rabin-s-son-presents-his-israeli-peace-initiative-1.327055

[LeftishBrit]

1. I hope this proposal is taken seriously

[whosinpower]

2. Do you think it will be?

And why didn't the Israeli government come up with their own counter proposal to the Arab Proposal?

[Donald Ian Rankin]

3. It looks like #1 may be the catch, but apart from that this sounds sane.

Crucially, a peace deal probably won't work if Israel demands to hang on to the "fingers" of settlement, even if it offers to swap them for chunks of desert.

[oberliner]

4. Chunks of desert?

Where do you get this notion from that the land involved in such a swap would be a "chunk of desert"?

[Donald Ian Rankin]

5. Past Israeli negotiating positions. N.T.

[oberliner]

6. Examples?

Not sure what you are talking about. Can you be more specific?

[azurnoir]

7. referendum anyone ?

The referendum law passed its second and third readings on Monday by a 65-33 vote. Kadima faction members opposed the bill, Labor was divided. Likud, Shas, Yisrael Beiteinu, and the National Union all supported the measure.

The law stipulates that ceding sovereign Israeli territory, either through a peace deal or any other mechanism, would require the approval of the Knesset and, subsequently, a national referendum. If the cessation of sovereignty is achieved by a Knesset vote of more than 80 legislators, this would nullify the need for a referendum.

http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/barak-says-withdrawal-referendum-law-could-boost-israel-s-enemies-1.326463

but who knows perhaps the Israeli people will chose something right outside Tel Aviv perhaps or will it be some very nice real estate with Arab villages on it?

[oberliner]

8. Probably the latter

That seems to be the way the right is moving anyway.

[azurnoir]

9. so are you saying the Israeli people are rightest at this point in time?

because the land to be swapped in the event of agreement on those terms will go to a vote by the Israeli people as to what land will be swapped

[oberliner]

10. I'm saying they wouldn't want to give up land outside Tel Aviv

That doesn't make any sense for anyone.

[azurnoir]

11. so are those the only choices ?

I simply gave 2 alternative examples to desert

[oberliner]

12. What would the Palestinian side want?

Ask yourself that question - you may be surprised by the answer.

[azurnoir]

13. which Palestinians are you speaking of?

the ones with Israeli citizenship or the ones without Israeli citizenship

[oberliner]

14. Check your favorite website for clarification

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_people

[azurnoir]

15. That does nothing to clarify

your meaning or are you claiming that it makes no difference they're all the same

[oberliner]

16. Palestinians are not all the same

I would think that would be obvious.

You asked a question about Israelis, but presumably you don't think that Israelis are all the same.

[azurnoir]

17. I asked which group of Palestinians post #12

referred to, the Palestinians without Israeli citizenship or the Palestinians with Israeli citizenship also known as Israeli Arabs

[oberliner]

18. I have no idea

Any random selection I would imagine.

[azurnoir]

19. so in post #12 you had no idea what you were talking about? that suprises even me n/t

[oberliner]

20. Huh?

I am again confused by what you are saying. I thought I was being clear.

[azurnoir]

21. yawn the game of semantics has grown weary n/t

[oberliner]

22. You asked: "which Palestinians are you speaking of?"

That is where the semantic "game" apparently began - initiated by you (for reasons still unknown).

I don't recall asking "which Israelis are you speaking of" when you referenced Israelis.

[azurnoir]

23. as I gave specifics as to which group of Palestinians and you still seem unable

to answer that very simple question except with a wikilink that does not answer the simple question, IMO the one playing "games" here is you sir

[oberliner]

24. Honestly, I have no idea what you are talking about

I'm sorry. You seemed to not know what Palestinians meant so I gave that link.

I really wish you would go back and answer the actual question I posed rather than pretending not to know what a Palestinian is.

[azurnoir]

25. Perhaps you should 'go back' and read the question I asked twice and answer it

why play these games as the question was stated very plainly

eta are you feeling 'your self' lately, this type type dodging the point would seem below you, once again post #12 in case you no longer remember

[oberliner]

26. All questions have been answered

I wish you could actually respond to your thoughts on the Palestinian side that I was curious about.

[azurnoir]

27. Once again which group of Palestinians are you referring to

the ones living in West Bank or the ones with Israeli citizenship living in Israel as their respective opinions may differ greatly

[oberliner]

28. Again, any random selection of Palestinians

If you don't want to respond, that's fine - I respect that, but please let's not go in circles.

[azurnoir]

29. In this case a 'random' selection of Palestinians will not due

as I have pointed out Israeli Palestinians could well be expected to have a different response that Palestinians living the West Bank

[oberliner]

30. And a Fatah supporter might have a different response than a Hamas supporter

And a wealthy Palestinian might have a different response than a poor one.

And a Christian Palestinian might have a different response from a Muslim one.

And on and on.

Just like with Israelis, there is a great diversity of opinion among the Palestinian population. Yet this didn't stop you from making a comment about Israelis generally.

[azurnoir]

31. did not stop you from asking about Palestinians generally either

however in the case of a referendum vote which was the subject the Israeli opinion would be distilled in a manor of speaking would it not?

[oberliner]

32. Exactly

That is what a survey is all about. Getting a general sense from a broad group.

[azurnoir]

33. so Palestinians living the West Bank are no different from those with Israeli

citizenship or Israeli Arabs quite telling IMO, telling because they would be part of the Israeli vote now predictably you will come back and claim you knew that all along but they were not included in your list

[oberliner]

34. Everyone is different

What is my list? I don't know what you are saying.

I am just asking how you think Palestinians would respond to the same question.