Residents: Mosque, other structures demolished in Palestinian village

[Turborama]

Jerusalem (CNN) -- A mosque and other structures were demolished by bulldozers in a Palestinian village in the West Bank early Thursday, according to village residents.

The Israeli Civil Administration said the demolished structures did not have "the required permits in a fire area, risking the lives of the population."

Residents of the village of Khirbet Yarza said they awoke Thursday to the sounds of bulldozers as Israeli personnel moved into the area. A mosque, seven metal structures, a tent and three animal sheds were demolished, residents said.

"Almost 200 military personal and 20 military jeeps and three bulldozers arrived this morning around 5:30 to the village and started demolishing structures and the village's sole mosque," Ahmad Abu Sa'ed, a Palestinian official and resident of the area, told CNN.

Full article: http://edition.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/meast/11/25/mideast.village.demolitions/index.html?hpt=T2

[Turborama]

1. Here's a map....

[arcticken]

2. Fire area. Safety. Next. n/t

[Turborama]

3. Vague comment. Hopefully there won't be a next. n/t

[Crunchy Frog]

7. I just know that they're going to start doing the same thing

in the illegal outposts. Any day now. Including any makeshift synogogues or other religious paraphernalia. Can't let those fire hazards just hang around like that, can ya?

[oberliner]

12. Israeli forces demolish illegally-built settler synagogue in Hebron

Israeli forces demolish illegally-built settler synagogue in Hebron

Hebron - Ma'an - Israeli military forces demolished a synagogue illegally set up by Jewish settlers in the old city of Hebron, Israeli media reported.

http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=202369

In case you missed it.

[Crunchy Frog]

14. Good. I'm glad to see that it's happened.

I hope that it will continue to happen with more parity. It is very clear to me that settlers get away with much more in the way of illegal construction than the Palestinians do (and the restrictions on Palestinian construction are often so severe that it is almost all "illegal").

[oberliner]

15. The settlers are a national embarrassment

And the sad thing is they have way too much support in the current government.

At some point the government (hopefully a newly elected one or at least a different coalition) will have to stand up to them if there is ever going to be peace.

[Crunchy Frog]

18. I'm honestly afraid that there will be genuine civil war

if any Israeli government ever truly stands up to the settlers. They are religious fanatics and they have been used to being indulged and given their own way for such a long time. That's an explosive combination.

That is why I fear that the settler situation never will be dealt with and that eventually there will simply emerge a de facto single state. It's not that I think that's the best solution, just that I can't foresee a situation where there will ever be the political will to deal with the settlers.

[oberliner]

19. Every single settler was pulled out of Gaza

There was some kicking and screaming but no civil war.

I think as long as there is an agreement involving some territorial swaps and something (I'm not sure what) with respect to Jerusalem, I think the will of the people will win the day.

[Crunchy Frog]

21. I'm just afraid that things are becoming radicalized within that camp

even just since the Gaza evacuation. And then the settler population in the West Bank is so much bigger and more entrenched. And then there's the greater symbolic significance of "Judea and Samaria", seen as integral parts of Biblical Israel and hence necessarily part of modern Israel.

I guess I'm saying that I'm not as optimistic as you are, but only time will show which predictions pan out.

[oberliner]

23. Certainly a reasonable fear

Although, I don't know if you were following things back in the 80s, but during the peak of the Kahanist movement (before they were outlawed), there was talk amongst them of setting up a "State of Judea" in the West Bank. Not sure I'd say folks are necessarily more radical now than then.

Sadly, his (Kahane's) legacy does live on and there are some very radical elements, as you say. My hope and belief is that a compromise will be made and radicals and both sides will be angry about it but the majority who want peace will win out.

[Ken Burch]

27. There were only about 8,000 settlers in Gaza-there's what, at least 250,000 in the West Bank?

You can't compare the two situations.

Especially since huge numbers of the settlers are active-duty IDF troops. You'd end up with Israeli soldiers having to fight other Israeli soldiers.

How the hell do you think THAT will shake out?

[oberliner]

13. Very deceptive map

Actual photos can be found here:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/activestills/5210908679/in/photostream/

[shaayecanaan]

20. Thanks for the photos. It doesn't exactly look like a fire prone area, does it?

very lightly treed, and hardly any grass to be seen at all. I doubt I could start a fire there even if I tried.

[oberliner]

22. I think you are thinking of the wrong kind of fire

Unless you are being amusing.

The reason given from the Israeli side was that the structure was located in a military fire zone and built without the necessary permit.

This is from the Al Jazeera article on the topic:

The Israeli military confirmed knocking down what it described as "eight temporary structures" which had been built inside a military firing zone.

"During the morning, the security forces and the civil administration destroyed eight temporary structures and the frame of another structure, which were built without the required permits inside a firing zone endangering the lives of the residents," according to a statement from COGAT, the defence ministry unit which acts as a link between the army and the Palestinians.

[shaayecanaan]

24. Nope, I was mistaken...

it is indeed the other kind of fire that are talking about. It appears as though the mosque was there before 1967.

[oberliner]

25. Well in 1997 the population of the village was 23 people

Five families living in eight housing units. Six of the 23 people were children 14 or younger.

And it's been located adjacent to the Kopra military base which has used the surrounding area for training for at least the last 20 years.

It seems odd that there would have been a mosque there for over forty years with Israel taking no action until now, but who knows.

[Ken Burch]

34. So, if the village is small, that makes it ok to destroy the mosque?

Now that that mosque has gone, those people have no access to other places of worship. Almost none of them have cars, and you can't expect people to go through checkpoints on foot and then have to walk twenty miles or so just to have the chance to pray.

[oberliner]

36. What an odd conclusion

The size of the village does not make it ok to destroy anything in it.

[Ken Burch]

37. If that wasn't your point, why did you reference the village population size at all?

What part of "it's NEVER acceptable to destroy a house of worship" do you not get?

[oberliner]

39. Because the map made it seem huge

It's really tiny.

[Ken Burch]

40. All the map did was to use a large font for readibility.

Why are you making such a huge issue about a trivial question of typesetting.

If the village was tiny, that made an even greater case against destroying the mosque.

[oberliner]

41. I didn't make a huge issue

I just wrote that the map was deceptive and provided some photos from the village.

[Violet_Crumble]

44. I'm not sure why anyone would make out the size of the village is relevant at all...

Nor what it's got to do with the map Turbo posted (so far it's the only map I've seen posted and it showed me where in the West Bank the village was).

I don't understand what the size of a village has to do with anything. It's somehow different for Israel to destroy mosques in villages that have less than ten people than if they destroy a mosque in a larger village or town? Pathetic...

[Ken Burch]

28. I'm not sure what that photo is supposed to demonstrate.

n/t.

[oberliner]

29. They are photos of the destroyed structures and also some of the villagers

These are actual pictures taken by someone who was actually there.

[Ken Burch]

31. I get that.

What I meant was(and perhaps I could have posted more clearly)what conclusions do you feel we should draw from the photos, and how do they contradict what the map in post #1 showed?

[oberliner]

32. You can draw whatever conclusions you'd like

I just thought it would help get a sense of what happened to see the photos.

I think the map in post 1 is deceptive because it makes the village seem to be much larger than it actually is.

[Violet_Crumble]

42. Thanks for posting that map, Turbo. It puts it in context now...

Given the destruction of Palestinian property by Israel especially in that area of the West Bank, I'd be shocked if even the most zealoted 'supporters' of Israel would dare to try to argue that this is in any way justified....

[azurnoir]

4. Unfortunately Khirbet Yarza is in Area C which is the part

of the West Bank that is "officially" under Israeli control, I guess it was felt that a reminder of just who's land it is was needed

[arcticken]

5. OR there was a fire safety issue

JUST LIKE was stated. incroyable.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

6. That's the excuse; the reason is reminding the Palestinians who's boss.

When did you last hear of Israel demolishing a synagogue with bulldozers because it was a fire safety risk?

It's blindingly obvious that the real motivation here is to prove a point - the point being that Palestinians are second class citizens in their own homeland.

[oberliner]

8. Israeli forces demolish illegally-built settler synagogue in Hebron

From Ma'an News (2008):

Hebron - Ma'an - Israeli military forces demolished a synagogue illegally set up by Jewish settlers in the old city of Hebron, Israeli media reported.

http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=202369

[azurnoir]

10. That was in April of 2008 while Olmert and Bush were still in power

also what section of Hebron was the Synagogue in?

[oberliner]

11. It was in the Old City

The article mentions that.

[azurnoir]

16. And??????

a bit more about the synagogue the mosque and H2

from the already posted Maan article

The Hazon David synagogue was first built seven years ago by right-wing Israeli settlers, and has been demolished by the Israeli military numerous times. The structure was made of stones, tree branches, and plywood.

about the mosque

Residents of Khirbet Yarza, a village of less than 200 residents, said Israeli bulldozers entered the Jordan Valley area early in the morning and tore down the mosque, saying document indicated that it was demolished because it lacked a proper permit.

Local PA spokesman Ahmad As’ad said villagers had papers proving the mosque was legal, and that it was built before 1967, when Israeli forces occupied the West Bank.

A Civil Administration official said the building was demolished along with eight sheds which were built without permits in an area that Israeli forces had declared a firing zone.

"The extension on the building which workers said could have been a mosque was unsafe," he said, refuting claims that the structure had been in place for as long as villagers claimed.

http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=335823

and more about Israeli activities in H2

http://www.palestinemonitor.org/spip/spip.php?article1227

[oberliner]

17. Didn't you ask for the location?

I'm not sure - maybe I misunderstood what you were asking.

[azurnoir]

26. I asked which section of Hebron meaning the Israeli

controlled or the Palestinian controlled

[oberliner]

30. H2nt

[azurnoir]

33. yes I pointed that out in post #16 n/t

[oberliner]

35. So I am not understanding what you are asking

What information are you seeking?

[azurnoir]

38. I had already found the info myself as pointed out in my post n/t

[Name removed]

9. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Violet_Crumble]

43. Does anyone have a map where settlements, bases and villages are shown? n/t