Hamas leader denies Nazi Holocaust

[oberliner]

A senior Hamas leader on Thursday accused Israel of carrying out "countless holocausts" against the Palestinians while saying the Nazi genocide was a "lie."

Mahmoud al-Zahar made the remarks during a memorial ceremony for 43 Palestinians who were killed at a UN school in the Jabaliya refugee camp during Israel's 22-day war on Gaza that began in December 2008.

"The lie according to which they were a victim of a holocaust and the (Jewish) people are a victim -- this lie has crumbled with the holocaust of Beit Hanun, the holocaust of Al-Fakhura and the other countless holocausts ... committed by the Zionist enemy," he said.

Zahar was speaking on the second anniversary of an Israeli air strike on the United Nations' Al-Fakhura school in the northern Gaza Strip.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4010208,00.html

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mudplanet]

2. You probably won't find many Hamas supporters on this forum, but

supporters of equal human rights for everyone.

I'm assuming he was responding emotionally to the killing of a lot of school children. What happened in Europe between 1935 and 1945 is a matter of historical fact. Pretending it didn't happen doesn't make it so.

But what happened then in no way justifies what is going on now, today.

[hayu_lol]

3. HAMAS has gotten this message from their very good friends...

the Iranians.

Makes very good copy and brings in tons of contributions that allow the stalwarts of HAMAS to live very well...certainly much better than the Palestinians THEY hold captive.

[mudplanet]

4. Yea. Right. The captives that elected them in a fair election. Not the Israeli

government, which continues to kill them and violate their human rights daily.

[davidinalameda]

6. a fair election?

was that before or after their little civil war with Abbas' forces?

[azurnoir]

11. The election that won Hamas the magority in the Palestinian Parliament

and that was held in both the West Bank and Gaza was at least we're told a fair election even though Bush and Olmert pushed it against the wishes and warnings of Palestinian President Abbas, however that election did not make Hamas the undisputed leaders of the Palestinian people any more than the Republicans having a majority in the US Congress makes the GOP the leaders of the US,, even though recently we've seen attempts to lead us believe other wise here, however that was prior to the military coup that lead to the Hamas takeover of Gaza a year and a half later

[shira]

8. They were voted in as representatives of gov't, not as dictator of Gaza.

Since their coup in 2007, Hamas has made Gaza more theocratic and militant. As a result, basic human rights of individual Palestinians under Hamas rule have gotten far worse.

And you think Palestinians in Gaza are for that and would vote again and again for that same far Right, fascist ideology?

:eyes:

I suppose when you repeatedly claim you're for equal rights for everyone, that means WRT Gaza it's okay if individuals are denied basic human rights - so long as it's fair and everyone is treated the same.

Taken to the extreme, all Jews and Arabs of that area should be subjected to the same thing. And if that means being subservient to Hamas theocratic rule, at least everyone will be treated the same - even if they're all treated like complete shit.

Brilliant.

[mudplanet]

14. There is no such thing as "representatives of gov't". They were voted in as

the government.

Gaza isn't underwritten by my tax dollars. Gaza doesn't get supersonic jets, white phosphorus artillery shells, apache attack helicopters and cluster bombs from my government.

Arrange for Hamas to get equal military aid from my government and I'll feel I have an equal right to be outraged by their violations of human rights.

The only reason Israel can continually commit these crimes is because my government pays for it, making me party to the crime. Fuck that. http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/mideast/IB85066.pdf

[LeftishBrit]

19. Voted in as the government?

So were Bush and Cheney! (Not with a majority of the vote, but then neither were Hamas.)

So were Netanyahu and Lieberman (ditto, but ditto).

Does that make them a good thing?

[shira]

22. They were voted in like our Congress here, not to rule Gaza. So you're wrong.

And Hamas is being paid with your tax dollars.

US aid goes to the PA and then the PA sends over $1 billion annually into Gaza. You're also paying for Egypt (number 2 in aid after Israel) to violate human rights about 10,000 times worse than Israel but you don't protest that. Not that you'd stop protesting against Israel if they were #2 instead of #1.

Egypt, by the way, is also blockading Gaza.

And your government pays for all that.

You ever protested using your tax dollars to underwrite that? :shrug:

"Arrange for Hamas to get equal military aid from my government and I'll feel I have an equal right to be outraged by their violations of human rights."

You should be outraged by their violations of human rights regardless whether they get equal aid from the US or not.

Lame.

[LeftishBrit]

20. How about both Israel and Hamas being bad for the Palestinians?

And all the evidence from polls is that the Palestinians have considerable 'buyers' remorse' by now about Hamas?

A lot of RW American members of Congress, and British RW MPs, and Israeli Likud and worse members of the Knesset, were elected democratically. Doesn't mean that they don't harm their people.

[mudplanet]

21. I agree.

[cali]

10. that's a terribly cheap excuse for his comments

responding emotionally doesn't excuse it.

no, what happened then doesn't excuse anything, but that doesn't make his remark more acceptable. It is not.

[CJvR]

5. If....

...Israel had carried out a single holocaust there wouldn't be a single Palestinian left in Israel or the occupied territories. The Israelis suck at genocide, today there are more palestinians in old Palestine than ever before!

[azurnoir]

7. seeing that your statement would indicate that to be a Holocaust

every member of the targeted group has to be killed........

[CJvR]

9. No...

...but the actual holocaust took only a few years, the Armenian one a few months, the Soviet and chinese famines a growth cycle or two, the Rwandan genocide a few weeks. The occupation is half a century old yet there are more Palestinians than ever before! If Israel is conducting a holocaust policy against the Palestines, as Hamas claims, they are clearly not doing it right.

[arcticken]

12. The claims of a Palestinian "holocaust,"

are merely hyperbole for anyone with a rational outlook.

[mudplanet]

13. It's unclear to me why someone denying the holocaust is material to the

Israel question.

Unless the fact of the holocaust is meant to justify dispossessing hundreds of thousands of Arabs of their homes, businesses and farms. It doesn't.

[CJvR]

15. It is rather irrelevant.

But Hamas seems to think it matters.

Perhaps they feel the past genocide is the reason Israel is moraly superior to Hamas, rather than the fact that Hamas would like to conduct a future genocide. Easier to blame the jews than taking a long hard look in the mirror.

[mudplanet]

18. A past genocide makes a country "morally superior"?

It's easier to blame Arabs than taking a long hard look in the mirror, and at the facts.

[azurnoir]

16. Bingo n/t

[aranthus]

17. Several reasons why it's relevant.

First, if you believe the lie that Israel was created as recompense for, or out of guilt for, the Holocaust (which it appears this guy does), then his statement is intended as denying Israel's legitimate existence (which is the root cause of the war that the Arabs have been fighting agaisnt Israel for the last 60 some years). The same is true even if this guy is only playing to those in the Arab/Muslim world who do believe that particular lie. The comment also evidences some of the rank antisemitism that underlies much of what passes for anti-Israel discourse. Third, assuming that this guy really believes what he's saying, it's evidence that he's divorced from reality; not a good thing in the leader of a movement. Worse, if he's playing to a larger audience that believes this (and he is), then that larger audience (Palestinian and Arab/Muslim society in general), has problems dealling with reality, which doesn't bode well for peace.