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Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Israel/Palestine |
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shaayecanaan
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Sun Jan-23-11 08:16 PM Original message |
Two decades of secret Israeli-Palestinian accords leaked to media worldwide |
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shaayecanaan
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Sun Jan-23-11 08:22 PM Response to Original message |
1. Another story |
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shira
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Mon Jan-24-11 03:31 AM Response to Original message |
2. "The Palestine Papers". Fabrication of the Day. |
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shaayecanaan
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Mon Jan-24-11 03:57 AM Response to Reply #2 |
3. What a load of cobblers... |
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shira
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Mon Jan-24-11 04:36 AM Response to Reply #3 |
4. I guess fans of al-Manar will believe pretty much anything... |
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shaayecanaan
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Mon Jan-24-11 08:22 AM Response to Reply #4 |
8. Then you\'ve got a chance to make an easy fifty bucks, right? |
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oberliner
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Mon Jan-24-11 08:28 AM Response to Reply #8 |
9. What do you think is the motivation to release these documents now? |
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shaayecanaan
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Mon Jan-24-11 08:32 AM Response to Reply #9 |
11. I dont think either I or anyone else could care less... |
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oberliner
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Mon Jan-24-11 08:50 AM Response to Reply #11 |
12. No one could care less? Not even if it brings about the end of the PA? |
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shaayecanaan
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Mon Jan-24-11 11:15 AM Response to Reply #12 |
13. You\'ve made 10 posts speculating about the motives of those who released the papers |
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oberliner
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Mon Jan-24-11 11:31 AM Response to Reply #13 |
15. I've made a total of 5 posts on this topic, including this one |
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shaayecanaan
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Mon Jan-24-11 11:54 AM Response to Reply #15 |
17. Y ou consider that a corpus of 1700 documents are being taken out of context? |
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oberliner
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Mon Jan-24-11 12:02 PM Response to Reply #17 |
18. A photocopier was involved? |
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shaayecanaan
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Mon Jan-24-11 12:35 PM Response to Reply #18 |
21. Do you accept what Rabbo is saying? |
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oberliner
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Mon Jan-24-11 02:05 PM Response to Reply #21 |
25. Two separate points |
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shira
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Mon Jan-24-11 04:37 PM Response to Reply #25 |
33. If these documents are authentic, the PA was willing to recognize Israel as a Jewish state |
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oberliner
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Wed Jan-26-11 08:37 PM Response to Reply #33 |
68. The agenda here is to discredit the PA and strengthen Hamas |
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shira
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Thu Jan-27-11 11:43 AM Response to Reply #68 |
76. Agreed. NT |
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Donald Ian Rankin
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Mon Jan-24-11 12:33 PM Response to Reply #15 |
19. You view the denial from the negotiators as proof? I think your confidence is misplaced. |
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oberliner
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Mon Jan-24-11 02:07 PM Response to Reply #19 |
26. I don't view anything as proof |
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shira
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Mon Jan-24-11 04:32 PM Response to Reply #26 |
32. When they bash Israel, Abbas, Erekat, and Rabbo are all truthtellers, but.... N/T |
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ProgressiveMuslim
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Tue Jan-25-11 09:42 AM Response to Reply #9 |
47. Here is my take |
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shira
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Mon Jan-24-11 04:19 PM Response to Reply #8 |
30. The last time we bet, I was right and you were wrong as Hamas confirmed 700 militants killed |
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Name removed
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Mon Jan-24-11 06:05 PM Response to Reply #30 |
34. Deleted message |
shira
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Mon Jan-24-11 06:10 PM Response to Reply #34 |
35. The IDF numbers of Hamas killed (700) was accurate while all Israel bashing NGO's were wrong... |
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ProgressiveMuslim
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Mon Jan-24-11 06:25 AM Response to Reply #3 |
6. These documents are undoubtedly authentic. They spell the death of Fatah. |
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bemildred
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Mon Jan-24-11 11:30 AM Response to Reply #6 |
14. Hi PM. |
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ProgressiveMuslim
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Tue Jan-25-11 09:38 AM Response to Reply #14 |
43. What I would like a reporter to ask is: |
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oberliner
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Tue Jan-25-11 12:18 PM Response to Reply #43 |
52. That question is what suggests these documents might not be what they seem |
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bemildred
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Tue Jan-25-11 12:28 PM Response to Reply #43 |
53. Dahlan certainly has well established credentials as a weasel. |
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oberliner
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Mon Jan-24-11 11:32 AM Response to Reply #6 |
16. The death of Fatah and possibly the end of the PA as we know it |
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Donald Ian Rankin
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Mon Jan-24-11 12:34 PM Response to Reply #6 |
20. How do you know they're authentic? N.T. |
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azurnoir
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Mon Jan-24-11 12:50 PM Response to Reply #6 |
22. ah while I agree that these papers are most likely true |
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shira
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Mon Jan-24-11 04:25 PM Response to Reply #6 |
31. If they're authentic, why didn't the PA agree to a deal with Olmert in 2008? |
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shaayecanaan
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Tue Jan-25-11 10:36 AM Response to Reply #31 |
49. Olmert wasnt prepared to concede Ariel |
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Recursion
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Tue Jan-25-11 11:57 AM Response to Reply #31 |
50. They did; Olmert didn't want it |
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shira
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Wed Jan-26-11 05:03 PM Response to Reply #50 |
62. Right. Olmert and Livni weren't desperate to survive politically and accept a deal similar to.... |
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Name removed
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Wed Jan-26-11 10:20 PM Response to Reply #62 |
69. Deleted message |
shira
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Thu Jan-27-11 04:54 AM Response to Reply #69 |
70. So what do you think was the PA's best offer to Israel, based on your reading so far? |
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shaayecanaan
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Thu Jan-27-11 06:42 PM Response to Reply #70 |
85. This one, obviously... |
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shira
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Thu Jan-27-11 07:10 PM Response to Reply #85 |
90. Which one? What year/month? What were all the details? n/t |
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shaayecanaan
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Thu Jan-27-11 08:01 PM Response to Reply #90 |
94. June 15, 2008 |
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shira
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Thu Jan-27-11 09:23 PM Response to Reply #94 |
96. Nothing about refugees, the Temple Mount, security? All deal-breakers. n/t |
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shaayecanaan
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Thu Jan-27-11 09:40 PM Response to Reply #96 |
98. Olmert's 2008 offer didnt contain anything on the Temple Mount either |
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azurnoir
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Mon Jan-24-11 05:50 AM Response to Original message |
5. Crowley: US cannot vouch for 'Palestine Papers' veracity |
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oberliner
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Mon Jan-24-11 06:36 AM Response to Original message |
7. This will strengthen Hamas and possibly bring down the PA |
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shaayecanaan
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Mon Jan-24-11 08:28 AM Response to Reply #7 |
10. Well, Israel has been strengthening the hand of HA and Hamas for a long time now (nt) |
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oberliner
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Mon Jan-24-11 02:08 PM Response to Reply #10 |
27. Israel has been doing the exact opposite |
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shaayecanaan
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Mon Jan-24-11 07:51 PM Response to Reply #27 |
38. Certainly Hezbollah has gone from strength to strength... |
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LeftishBrit
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Mon Jan-24-11 08:07 PM Response to Reply #27 |
39. I don't think that Israel have been making Hamas unpopular. |
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Lithos
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Mon Jan-24-11 01:18 PM Response to Reply #7 |
23. I doubt so... |
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shaayecanaan
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Mon Jan-24-11 01:48 PM Response to Reply #23 |
24. Pretty much everything looks like a dead end for Palestine... |
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oberliner
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Mon Jan-24-11 02:27 PM Response to Reply #24 |
29. So what course of action would you recommend? |
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Lithos
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Mon Jan-24-11 10:51 PM Response to Reply #24 |
41. Not saying Barghouti can do much |
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shaayecanaan
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Tue Jan-25-11 12:15 AM Response to Reply #41 |
42. The Palestinians did everything one could ask of them... |
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Recursion
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Tue Jan-25-11 11:59 AM Response to Reply #42 |
51. As unpopular as this is, their problem is they gave up violence |
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oberliner
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Tue Jan-25-11 03:55 PM Response to Reply #51 |
56. "Their proplem is they gave up violence?" |
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Recursion
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Tue Jan-25-11 04:11 PM Response to Reply #56 |
57. Well, what other leverage did they have? |
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LeftishBrit
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Tue Jan-25-11 05:30 PM Response to Reply #57 |
59. Isn't this the argument always used by countries for building up the arms race, getting nukes, |
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Recursion
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Tue Jan-25-11 09:10 PM Response to Reply #59 |
60. Mostly I was thinking that a people that get a state almost always have to use violence... |
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shira
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Wed Jan-26-11 05:10 PM Response to Reply #60 |
63. Choosing terror vs. Israel has been disastrous for Palestinians. |
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ProgressiveMuslim
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Tue Jan-25-11 09:40 AM Response to Reply #41 |
45. I agree with you. Whom do you regard as Arafat's enablers? |
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Lithos
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Tue Jan-25-11 01:50 PM Response to Reply #45 |
54. Arafat's enablers... |
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ProgressiveMuslim
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Tue Jan-25-11 02:51 PM Response to Reply #54 |
55. I think he was genuinely beloved by the Palestinian street prior to 1995. |
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ProgressiveMuslim
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Tue Jan-25-11 09:41 AM Response to Reply #24 |
46. Hence the necessity for worldwide BDS. It's the only way. |
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oberliner
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Mon Jan-24-11 02:09 PM Response to Reply #23 |
28. Hard to know |
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ProgressiveMuslim
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Tue Jan-25-11 09:39 AM Response to Reply #23 |
44. My husband's theory is that Dahlan is the source. nt |
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Prometheus Bound
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Mon Jan-24-11 06:14 PM Response to Original message |
36. The Guardian concludes: But senior PLO sources accepted privately that the documents were genuine. |
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shira
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Mon Jan-24-11 06:16 PM Response to Reply #36 |
37. The Guardian falsely claimed the PA accepted a Jewish state |
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LeftishBrit
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Mon Jan-24-11 08:10 PM Response to Original message |
40. I think that it will be some time beforewe know what all this indicates |
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ProgressiveMuslim
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Tue Jan-25-11 09:45 AM Response to Reply #40 |
48. You forgot: it indicates that even the "most generous" offer from the PA wasn't enough for Israel. |
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shira
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Tue Jan-25-11 04:57 PM Response to Reply #48 |
58. Please. Even Erekat said that if the PA proposed what al Jazeera reports, Israel would've accepted. |
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whosinpower
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Wed Jan-26-11 04:31 PM Response to Reply #58 |
61. That isn't what he said |
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shira
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Wed Jan-26-11 05:13 PM Response to Reply #61 |
64. Look at these 2 examples of deliberate distortion by al-Jazeera and the Guardian... |
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whosinpower
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Wed Jan-26-11 06:57 PM Response to Reply #64 |
65. Jpost, CNN, Haaretz have all jumped on the bandwagon |
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whosinpower
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Wed Jan-26-11 07:39 PM Response to Reply #65 |
66. Livni concedes the papers are real |
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oberliner
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Wed Jan-26-11 08:35 PM Response to Reply #66 |
67. Livni: No crisis in Gaza Strip |
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azurnoir
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Thu Jan-27-11 08:21 AM Response to Reply #67 |
71. candidates say all kinds of things shortly before an election |
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whosinpower
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Thu Jan-27-11 09:40 AM Response to Reply #67 |
72. What does that have to do with the palestine papers? |
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oberliner
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Thu Jan-27-11 09:51 AM Response to Reply #72 |
73. Just because Livni says something does not mean that it is true |
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shira
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Thu Jan-27-11 10:03 AM Response to Reply #65 |
74. Can't admit how al-Jazeera and the Guardian are distorting the record, can you? |
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houstonintc
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Fri Jan-28-11 05:41 PM Response to Reply #48 |
102. Actually No |
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azurnoir
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Thu Jan-27-11 10:14 AM Response to Original message |
75. Lol the fav-o-rite memes of some the "Pro-Israel" crowd have been |
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shira
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Thu Jan-27-11 11:44 AM Response to Reply #75 |
77. Prove the PLO has dropped full RoR, as well as giving away the rest of the store. |
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azurnoir
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Thu Jan-27-11 11:59 AM Response to Reply #77 |
78. you have been removed from ignore, but you can not convincingly prove |
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shira
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Thu Jan-27-11 12:42 PM Response to Reply #78 |
79. I've proven how the Guardian and al-Jazeera have intentionally distorted the record... |
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azurnoir
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Thu Jan-27-11 02:23 PM Response to Reply #79 |
80. yes in your own opinion you have but as for the rest of us? |
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shira
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Thu Jan-27-11 03:16 PM Response to Reply #80 |
81. LOL! n/t |
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azurnoir
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Thu Jan-27-11 03:59 PM Response to Reply #81 |
82. I'm glad you think it's funny or is it an indication |
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shira
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Thu Jan-27-11 05:35 PM Response to Reply #82 |
83. If it's only 'opinion' that al-Jazeera and the Guardian intentionally distorted the leaks... |
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azurnoir
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Thu Jan-27-11 06:23 PM Response to Reply #83 |
84. The PA reognized Israel long ago, you seem unable to |
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shira
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Thu Jan-27-11 07:08 PM Response to Reply #84 |
88. Not as a Jewish State, so the Guardian headline is misleading. N/T |
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azurnoir
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Thu Jan-27-11 07:33 PM Response to Reply #88 |
93. it said privately but Israel seemed wanted it in conjunction with the transfer of Israeli Arabs |
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Bodhi BloodWave
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Mon Jan-31-11 12:48 PM Response to Reply #88 |
105. exactly why should the Palestinians have to recognize |
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azurnoir
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Thu Jan-27-11 06:49 PM Response to Reply #83 |
86. oh I forgot Livni seems she's for international law except when it's applied to Israel |
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shira
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Thu Jan-27-11 07:09 PM Response to Reply #86 |
89. The context shows Livni didn't want to include mention of Int'l Law in a resolution... |
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azurnoir
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Thu Jan-27-11 07:28 PM Response to Reply #89 |
91. the resolution is against Israel isn't it? hence she is against it |
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shaayecanaan
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Thu Jan-27-11 07:06 PM Response to Reply #75 |
87. I think you're probably right... |
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shira
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Thu Jan-27-11 07:31 PM Response to Reply #87 |
92. It's too early to tell if everything reported is authentic or within context, etc... |
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shaayecanaan
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Thu Jan-27-11 08:39 PM Response to Reply #92 |
95. Its "too early to tell"? I thought you said the papers were fake? |
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shira
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Thu Jan-27-11 09:26 PM Response to Reply #95 |
97. Your silence WRT obvious distortions/fabrications speaks volumes. We can continue... |
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shaayecanaan
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Thu Jan-27-11 09:42 PM Response to Reply #97 |
99. We can continue once you get your story straight... |
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whosinpower
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Fri Jan-28-11 12:16 PM Response to Reply #87 |
100. so true nt |
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shira
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Fri Jan-28-11 05:26 PM Response to Reply #100 |
101. Quite false. All these leaks show is that the PA talked concessions,not that they offered them. |
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whosinpower
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Fri Jan-28-11 08:52 PM Response to Reply #101 |
103. Olmert offered and Netanyahu refused and campaigned against the deal |
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shira
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Sat Jan-29-11 06:21 AM Response to Reply #103 |
104. The papers ONLY show the PA talked about concessions, not that they offered them. |
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whosinpower
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Mon Jan-31-11 04:28 PM Response to Reply #104 |
106. There is an offer - waiting in America |
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shira
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Mon Jan-31-11 11:57 PM Response to Reply #106 |
107. Can't be much of an offer when the PA knows conceding things will get them lynched. N/T |
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