Al-Aqsa Brigades: Jihad to continue without bin Laden

[oberliner]

GAZA CITY (Ma'an) -- The Fatah-affiliated Al-Aqsa Brigades mourned Tuesday the death of Al-Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden, following his assassination Sunday by American troops in Pakistan.

His death, a statement said, "won't stop our Jihad mission against injustice and occupation," adding doubt over the veracity of claims that the fundamentalist had indeed been killed.

In a statement received by Ma'an the brigades said: "The Islamic nation was shocked with the news that bin Laden had been killed by the non-believers."

He left a generation who follows the education he gave in Jihad, the statement continued.

http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=384230

[slackmaster]

1. bin Laden's actions led to the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Muslims

He was no true friend to the Palestinians.

[Douglas Carpenter]

2. Abbas Palestinian government welcomes bin Laden death, Hamas deplore

Abbas Palestinian government welcomes bin Laden death, Hamas deplore

In the occupied West Bank, the Western-backed Palestinian Authority welcomed the death in a U.S. raid in Pakistan of the al Qaeda leader and mastermind of the September 11 attacks.

"Getting rid of bin Laden is good for the cause of peace worldwide but what counts is to overcome the discourse and the methods -- the violent methods -- that were created and encouraged by bin Laden and others in the world," PA spokesman Ghassan Khatib said.

In the Hamas-run Gaza Strip, Haniyeh accused the United States of pursuing a policy based on "oppression and the shedding of Arab and Muslim blood."

.......

Political analysts in the Gaza Strip said Haniyeh was attempting through his remarks to cool tensions in the territory with al Qaeda-inspired Salafi groups. They consider Hamas too moderate and waged gun battles recently with its forces.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/05/02/us-binladen-palestinians-idUSTRE7414SS20110502

[oberliner]

3. Douglas Carpenter: "Abbas is already seen as a US stooge"

From an earlier post of yours:

Abbas is already seen as a U.S. stooge....even Fatah supporters reluctantly grumble that. It would be hard for them not to with all the money the U.S. government gave to help Fatah in the Jan 2006 elections.

From my point of view the problem goes back much farther. The U.S. and Israel have been demanding that Fatah take on Hamas and dismantle them since the mid 90's. This is no secret. Everybody knew that would mean a Palestinian civil war. When Fatah wanted to try to bring Hamas into the political process, the U.S. and Israel found that completely unacceptable and demanded confrontation instead. When Hamas has tried to establish a political dialog with the U.S. and Israel...these efforts were dismissed with contempt.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=124&topic_id=165458&mesg_id=165466

Obviously, the "US stooge" would cheer what the US wants them to cheer.

Hamas, on the other hand, is another story.

[Douglas Carpenter]

4. many did see him that way.. especially way back in Feb 07 ..but that is besides the point n/t

[oberliner]

5. How do you see him now?

Do you think he is more representative of Palestinian public opinion than Haniyeh?

[azurnoir]

6. which do you feel is more representative of the Palestian public? n/t

[oberliner]

7. I hope they have elections sometime soon so we can find out!

I think they both represent fairly sizable segments of the population.

With respect to Bin Laden, I'd say the Palestinian population is roughly divided into thirds:

Glad he's dead, Angry he's dead, Don't care that he's dead.

See this article in Time magazine:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/time/20110503/wl_time/08599206929300

[azurnoir]

8. According to a Pew poll we already know and it is Abbas that is

more representative of Palestinian views regarding OBL, in fact Palestinian support of OBL has fallen markedly in recent years whereas Nigerian support has grown slightly

Palestinian 2003 72% 2011 34%

Nigeria 2003 45% 2010 48%

http://pewglobal.org/2011/05/02/osama-bin-laden-largely-discredited-among-muslim-publics-in-recent-years/

[oberliner]

12. Those are about the same numbers polls showed right before Fatah got trounced by Hamas in elections

From Wikipedia:

The Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research polled 1,316 adults in the West bank and Gaza strip in early December 2005 on their voting intentions for the legislative poll, which indicated the following support:<7>

* Fatah: 50%
* Hamas: 32%
* Others: 9%
* Undecided: 9%


A second poll by PCPSR between 29 December - 31 December covered 4560 potential voters and gave the following results:<8>

* Fatah: 43%
* Change and Reform (Hamas): 25%
* Independent Palestine: 5%
* Martyr Abu Ali Mustafa: 3%
* The Alternative: 2%
* The Third Way: 2%
* Undecided: 19%

And yet, an election showed otherwise.

Another election might help clarify things as well.

It's a shame (but not surprising) that the Hamas leadership has been dead set on making sure they don't occur.

[azurnoir]

19. what are you talking about? the unity deal was signed an interim

government is being formed, elections will now take place

[azurnoir]

20. The Pew poll cited is about Palestinian attitudes towards OBL's death n/t

[Douglas Carpenter]

9. recent polling clearly shows Abbas and Fatah well ahead of Haniyeh and Hamas

(Angus Reid Global Monitor) – Mahmoud Abbas would win a new election in the Palestinian territories, according to a poll by the Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research. 54 per cent of respondents would vote for the current Palestinian Authority president and leader of Fatah in the next ballot, up four points since March.

Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh is second with 39 per cent.

http://www.angus-reid.com/polls/39148/abbas_would_clearly_win_palestinian_ballot/

(Angus Reid Global Monitor) – The next election to the Palestinian Legislative Council would see Fatah winning, according to a poll by the Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research. 45 per cent of respondents would vote for Fatah in the next election, up three points since March.

Hamas is second with 26 per cent. 18 per cent of respondents remain undecided.


http://www.angus-reid.com/polls/39182/fatah_clearly_ahead_of_hamas_among_palestinians/

[oberliner]

16. Almost identical to the numbers right before Hamas trounced Fatah in the elections

Any chance we might see an actual election any time soon?

Are they not overdue for one?

[Douglas Carpenter]

17. elections within a year are one of the central points of the Egyptian backed unity agreement

Whatever one thinks of Hamas - They certainly are not going to have credible elections without their participation. If only nice elements and factions that are not extremist are allowed to participate in governments - that would exclude a lot of governments in the world including Israel.

There is only one practical path to having elections and that is the Egyptian backed unity government plan signed in Cairo. Personally I wish Hamas did not exist. I wish there was a nice western style social-democratic party as the alternative that could actually win a general election and assume power. But that is not reality as it actually exist. There is no other practical alternative.

The PA even with U.S. backing does not have the means to impose its will on Hamas in the Gaza. Even Israel could not remove Hamas from power even with a full scale military assault. There is only one realistic and plausible path - the Egyptian supported unity plan with elections scheduled for less than a year away.

The unity agreement must be supported not because it is good or ideal. It must be supported because there is no choice - That is if one is actually serious about wanting stability, elections and an eventual peace agreement.

PA: New unity government to prepare elections and rehabilitate Gaza

Abbas tells delegation representing a group promoting an Israeli peace initiative that Fatah would be in charge of policy and that he would not allow violence.

By Avi Issacharoff

RAMALLAH − Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas told a group of Israeli politicians and business people yesterday in Ramallah that the new Palestinian unity government will be responsible for two issues only: preparing for elections within a year from the signing of the reconciliation agreement, and the rehabilitation of the Gaza Strip.

Abbas told the delegation representing a group promoting an Israeli peace initiative that Fatah, meaning Abbas himself would be in charge of policy and that he would not allow violence. He would continue to maintain the principle of a single authority and rule of law, and negotiations could continue with Israel, he said.

Despite Abbas’ attempt to reassure the Israeli delegation and decision-makers in Washington, many questions remain. Representatives of all the Palestinian factions are expected to sign the reconciliation agreement this Wednesday in Cairo, and a few days later before May, an official ceremony is to include Abbas and the head of the Hamas political bureau, Khaled Meshal

http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/pa-new-unity-government-to-prepare-elections-and-rehabilitate-gaza-1.358701

[oberliner]

22. Elections by two years ago were part of the previous agreements

Agreements have a way of not being followed when it comes to Hamas.

[azurnoir]

10. Al-Aqsa spokesman denies bin Laden statement

The spokesman of Fatah's military wing on Tuesday denied issuing a statement marking Osama bin Laden's death.

Abu Uday of the Al-Aqsa Brigades said the group did not and had no plans to comment because bin Laden's death was unrelated to Palestine.

He said a statement received by Ma'an's Gaza City office must have been forced as the armed group "doesn't know anything about it."

The statement issued in Al-Aqsa's name said the group was "shocked with the news that bin Laden had been killed by the non-believers." "The fighters in Palestine and around the world ... did not stop their mission," it said.

http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=384458

[oberliner]

11. I guess Ma'an News is not quite as reliable a source as previously thought

You'd think they would fact-check any such statements before publishing them.

One wonders how the statement "must have been forced" - forced by whom?

[azurnoir]

13. we'll leave that to the imagination

eta do you of any news source that is 100% reliable?

[Douglas Carpenter]

14. kind of like the White House reporting the details on the raid on the bin Laden compound

the simple fact is - no news source is 100% accurate all the time:

White House struggles to get story right on raid

By ERICA WERNER, Associated Press Erica Werner, Associated Press

Some of the White House contradictions and corrections that have emerged so far:

_White House counterterrorism adviser John Brennan told reporters Monday that bin Laden's son Khalid was killed in the raid. When the White House released a transcript of Brennan's briefing, it substituted the name of a different son, Hamza. The White House said that was a transcription error.

_Brennan said bin Laden's wife died while shielding the terrorist leader from U.S. gunfire. Carney said Tuesday that the wife hadn't died and was merely shot in the leg, although another woman did die. But it wasn't clear that either of them was trying to shield bin Laden.

_Brennan and other officials suggested that bin Laden was holding a gun and even firing at U.S. forces. Carney said Tuesday that bin Laden was unarmed.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110504/ap_on_go_pr_wh/us_bin_laden_fog_of_war

[oberliner]

15. No, nothing like that at all

Ma'an news published a statement that it claimed to have acquired from a group that now says they did not issue such a statement.

They attributed a statement to a group that now claims they never made that statement.

That's just bad reporting.

[Douglas Carpenter]

18. they made a mistake like every other news service in the history of the world - as we have seen in

recent days - with all the blatantly false reports coming out of Pakistan that were picked up and reported as facts by every single American and international news service in the world - without exception.

The establishment of a free and independent media within the Palestinian Territories that so far has an excellent although less than absolutely 100% perfect track record - like every other media in the world - is something that should be applauded not berated and degraded.

[oberliner]

21. It was more than one poll

In fact, it was every poll. No poll showed Hamas getting the level of support they got.

That's more than a mistake.