Israel approves housing construction in Gaza

[bemildred]

Israeli military authorities say they have authorized construction of new homes in the Gaza Strip. It would be the largest housing project in the war-torn area in years.

The Israeli military body that oversees civilian matters in the Palestinian areas said Tuesday that it has approved building 1,200 new homes in southern Gaza, as well as 18 badly needed schools.

Israel controls most of the border crossings into Gaza. Israel has largely banned the entry of construction materials into Gaza since Hamas militants seized control of the area in 2007. Israel fears items like cement, metal and glass could be used for military purposes by Gaza's Islamic militant Hamas rulers.

http://www.taiwannews.com.tw/etn/news_content.php?id=1632206

[tootrueleft]

1. This is, of course, the same israel that allegedly has no control over gaza.

[bemildred]

2. Perhaps someone will come along and explain that. nt

[tootrueleft]

5. I think the fact that gazans are being 'allowed' to build some shelter says it all.

[oberliner]

7. They have control over what gets into Gaza via Israel

They allow everything through except things they claim could be used for weapon construction (which is a lot).

In this case, they are agreeing to allow thousands of truckloads of construction materials to go through Israel into Gaza.

They are approving the transfer of these materials to the UNWRA for the construction of these particular projects.

[bemildred]

8. Thank you. nt

[Jefferson23]

9. lol. n/t

[oberliner]

10. No problem

I think it's a stretch to say that Israel has no control over Gaza when they can make decisions of this magnitude that effect the population there so significantly.

[bemildred]

12. I quite agree.

It was one of the first things that popped into my head when I saw the story.

But I was more interested in why it's being allowed now, which seems a good deal murkier.

[Igel]

36. But "control" isn't the key word.

A fair number of people dispute "occupation."

Is Gaza occupied or does Israel just exert (some?) control over it? There's a distinction, and it's a pretty big one.

[bemildred]

37. Control is the key word.

And of course, control is never absolute.

[shira]

15. Egypt has the same control, right? n/t

[oberliner]

16. Absolutely - and I don't think Rafah is open at all for cargo/goods, is it?

It is my understanding that the crossing with Egypt was only open for people and with pretty strict limitations (i.e. no young-adult males).

Not sure that Rafah is feasible as a cargo/goods crossing in the long term, but Gazans are managing to get goods from Egypt into Gaza via the smuggling tunnels so one would think that they could set something up with Egypt in order to allow for the kinds of large-scale crossings of truck-loads of supplies that occur regularly from the Israeli side.

I could be wrong though.

[pelsar]

23. you are wrong...

Rafah has a port 45km just south of gaza....presently importing via tunnels cars, gas, food, concrete, military goods....exporting food....

above ground, when egypt feels like opening up its border:

The shipment – which was part of the "Miles of Smiles" project – included 30 tons of medical equipment, 12 ambulances and baby food. It was organized by 10 European groups and sailed off the coast to Venice.


http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4085797,00.html

_____

expanding their parking lot, adding new terminals is simply a matter of egypt making the decision to do so....its all political, there are no physical barriers and they can do it tomorrow.

[oberliner]

25. So, Amnesty International is full of it?

From Amnesty:

The Rafah opening is the only opening between Gaza and Egypt. It was never designed to carry commercial and humanitarian traffic, and the ability to bring commercial items, food and other goods through the single crossing is extremely limited.

http://blog.amnestyusa.org/escr/the-crisis-in-gaza-and-the-rafah-crossing-how-much-has-changed/

[hack89]

27. I think the point was that minimal infrastructure improvements

would make it more conducive for increased commercial traffic.

[pelsar]

28. basically yes.....

they're claiming that Rafah cant bring in supplies, because it wasn't designed for it, what they are NOT saying is that it can be redesigned to handle supplies.....

theres enough land around to park the trucks, bring in some additional clerks to do the paper work...and presto, its now been designed to handle more traffic.

just as it was opened up for the last 30tons of supplies, its can be opened up daily for that 30tons

there are no physical barriers that prevent the expansion, both temporary or permanently.....its just politics.

[azurnoir]

29. basically no AI is telling the truth Rafah is not currently able to handle goods

but if Israel wants Egypt to be 'responsible' perhaps Israel should cough up the funds for the project, eh? Otherwise Egypt has more pressing concerns than pleasing Israel

[pelsar]

30. AI can say the the moon is made up of cheese....

but evidence show its not......so too with the rafah opening, already shown that it can handle 30tons without a problem.....

its not a matter what israel wants or doesnt want...its a matter of if hamas/gazans want to be dependant upon israel, their enemy/non friend or one of their friends, a country who has declared that they are concerned about the gazans.

i dont know about you, but i would prefer to have better relations with my friends as opposed to the people that i 'm trying to murder every few days......but that would mean, one can't blame israel for hamas/UN/friends failures to develop a working society...and THATS the real motivation, letting go.

i believe that has been made clear to me by so many.......if israel is not responsible for gaza, a whole philosophy, a whole ideology, a complete belief system falls about, and that cannot be allowed.

[azurnoir]

31. so now Hamas runs Egypt?

"ts not a matter what israel wants or doesnt want...its a matter of if hamas/gazans want to be dependant upon israel, their enemy/non friend or one of their friends, a country who has declared that they are concerned about the gazans."

Israel's air and water blockade keeps Gaza from being truly independent Rafah or open or not

[pelsar]

32. as much as israel does......

given that i believe hamas is responsible for their actions and non action, like any political entity they can make friends, make enemies and makes things happen, just as israel did in 48, which one can argue was in a much more precarious position.

they dont have to be "truly independent" to make political moves to get them out from the israeli stranglehold on their goods...the point is, that they, their friends, the UN etc doesn't want that to happen. You do not want that to happen.

each has their own reasons, but the goal is the same.....its pretty obvious since starving people, who have nothing, living in ghetto and concentration camp conditions, with genoicde always on the horizon not to mention the past carpet bombing, would probaby leap at the chance to open up their southern border for some kind of relief....

except nobody is....

[azurnoir]

33. as long as Israel mantains the current air and sea blockade

Israel has a strangle hold period

[pelsar]

34. mangling dictionary definitions?

a strangle hold suggests that israel can "choke off gaza".....so i guess you back to the "israel controls egypt by threatening to start a war with egypt if they don't do what israel says".....

how am i doing?

[azurnoir]

39. actually how your doing depends when it comes to

semantic diversion your doing so-so when it comes to 'facts on the ground' albeit my comment addressed air and sea and addressing what I said not well at all, I did not mention Egypt only Israel's siege of Gaza, while Egypt can help some of the immediate problems it really can not provide Gaza with the means to develop a thriving sustainable economy, for that Gaza needs to be able to be open to shipping by sea and air

It seems strange that someone such as yourself who goes on and on about how disappointed he is that Gaza has not developed further you seem to simultaneously wish to limit Gaza to subsistence levels, my use of 'strangle hold' was based on comments mage by one of New York's Democrat Senators that being Chuck Schumer

Schumer Says It ‘Makes Sense’ To ‘Strangle Economically’ Until It Votes The Way Israel Wants

This past Wednesday, Sen. Chuck Schumer (D-NY) delivered a wide-ranging speech at an Orthodox Union event in Washington, D.C. The senator’s lecture touched on areas such as Iran’s nuclear program, the Israel-Palestinian conflict, and several domestic policy issues.

During one point of his speech, Schumer turned his attention to the situation in Gaza. He told the audience that the “Palestinian people still don’t believe in the Jewish state, in a two-state solution,” and also that “they don’t believe in the Torah, in David.” He went on to say “you have to force them to say Israel is here to stay.”

http://thinkprogress.org/security/2010/06/11/102026/schumer-strangle-gaza-economically/

[pelsar]

40. why?-whats the physical barrier?

while Egypt can help some of the immediate problems it really can not provide Gaza with the means to develop a thriving sustainable economy, for that Gaza needs to be able to be open to shipping by sea and air

that statement is nothing more than 'self -serving", since it serves your political viewpoint. The Egyptian El Arish port is a mere 45 km from gaza. In many countries, the port is more than 45km from the major population centers and the products get trucked over.

hence there is no physical problem for gaza to develop a sustainable economy, without their own port, the problem is political. Same goes for air trafffic
____

just because Schumer has a problem with word definitions as well, has no bearing on the definition of the word. (i never did understand that logic: a politician says something, therefore it must be true-as long as he has the same political out look 'as i do".... If you use the word "stranglehold" your implying that israel controls the egyptian border...so ARE YOU? (again do not answer this as it requires a definitive response and your not good at that).
______

aw shucks....i 'm supposed to actually answer this?
you seem to simultaneously wish to limit Gaza to subsistence levels, ?
Why don't you simply say that i wish that all the gazans should die slow deaths of AIDs? or that i believe that Aliens from Mars have taken over the world bank?....its the same nonsense. (why do these pathetic accusations always come up?....is it some kind of emotional thing?)

but back to the more interesting question, that as always you'll not answer:
what is the real barrier that is preventing gaza from developing a thriving economy by playing nice politically with egypt and using their El Arishs sea and airport?

[azurnoir]

41. "whats the physical barrier?" get in a fishing boat off the coast of Gaza and you'll find out

however your scenarios and spiel about getting 'along' politically still leaves Gaza dependent on someone else's good will why would you have it so?

[pelsar]

42. try going south to egypt.....

you'll find egyptian fisherman selling you fish there....how far you can go in Egyptian waters...i dont know....

and yes in my scenario the gazans are still dependant upon egypt at least in the meantime. You ask why? because those stupid shmucks in the PA and Hamas, just had to shoot missiles over at israel once israel left gaza thats why.

Before israel left that was many discussions about the port they were going to build, of course once they made the strategic decision that it was more important to try to kill israelis, those plans kind of got put off.

its called consequences for ones actions, its a basic tenet of human and country relations and it even includes the Palestinians who dont get a free pass from israel. Basically any credit they might have had when israel left, they destroyed, and of course all of those attacks on the border (they dont even get in the news any more) dont help a whole lot.

they've got a lot to learn about intl relations, they might as well start with the egyptians, since they're not trying to kill them.....

[azurnoir]

3. sounds like 'someones' anxious about a flotilla or something n/t

[bemildred]

4. Could be. nt

[Jefferson23]

6. I wondered that too azur. Also would this be a condition set from

some of the states Netanyahu has asked to vote no this September...I don't know.

Influence coming to light that may lead Israel to attempt to repair relations with Turkey and not a
bad signal to give to Egypt too.

[bemildred]

11. I was thinking Rafah might have something to do with it too.

And the prospect of a "Unity Government". But "aid flotilla" is a good guess too, and "part of some deal" also works. Could also be looking to make some sort of "concession" in that regard and this seemed suitable.

[Jefferson23]

13. Could be a mix, not sure of course..I'm a cynical bastard who is

glad to hear good news even if it were to be short lived. Something needs to give here.

[azurnoir]

26. Israel's meeting with Turkey almost certainly had something to do

with IHH pulling out of the flotilla, however the approval of building materials for Gaza may have been influenced more by EU foreign policy chief Catherine Ashton's meeting with Israeli leaders over the past few days

[Jefferson23]

14. Israel and Turkey holding secret direct talks to mend diplomatic rift

The U.S. administration has also held talks with senior Turkish officials, mainly to foil the flotilla to Gaza due later this month.


Israeli and Turkish officials have been holding secret direct talks to try to solve the diplomatic crisis between the two countries, a senior official in Jerusalem said. The negotiations are receiving the Americans' support.

A source in the Turkish Foreign Ministry and a U.S. official confirmed that talks are being held, though in Israel the prime minister and foreign minister's aides declined to comment.

http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/israel-and-turkey-holding-secret-direct-talks-to-mend-diplomatic-rift-1.368792

[Why Syzygy]

17. Israel okays materials to build Gaza homes, schools

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5gEVIhQ_eaz8-qYQldyBOAawpYRPw?docId=CNG.928cdb4d66c77e8a6b10b7286261f0a4.681

Israel okays materials to build Gaza homes, schools

By Steve Weizman (AFP) – 1 day ago

JERUSALEM — Israel has approved the delivery to the Gaza Strip of materials to build 1,200 homes and 18 schools in UN-run projects, a defence official told AFP on Tuesday.

The decision came shortly before the scheduled departure of an international convoy seeking to breach Israel's naval blockade of Gaza and as Israeli officials argued that there is no humanitarian crisis there.

Major Guy Inbar, spokesman for the defense ministry department responsible for liaison with the Palestinian territories, said the materials would be consigned to the United Nations Relief and Welfare Agency, which cares for Palestinian refugees and is managing construction.

"What we approved for UNRWA was more big projects, the construction of 18 schools," Inbar told AFP. "Also two big projects were approved for the building of about 1,200 housing units. (...)

[Why Syzygy]

18. sorry

Sorry - this looks like a dupe.

[RaleighNCDUer]

19. I wonder why.

Are they running out of things to bomb?

[tootrueleft]

20. One-liner of the year right there!

:applause:

[oberliner]

21. Israeli Helicopter Bombs Gaza Tunnel

Gaza - PNN - The Israeli air force bombed a tunnel in southern Gaza Strip early Wednesday morning, Palestinian and Israeli sources reported.

According to the Israeli military, the airstrike came in response to a mortar and a homemade Qassam rocket fired from Gaza into Israel Tuesday night, Israeli sources reported.

The airstrike was carried out by an attack helicopter, reported Israeli daily the Jerusalem Post. The Israeli military said the tunnel was being used by terrorists to infiltrate Israel.

http://english.pnn.ps/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=10288&Itemid=56

Have you not been following the news there recently?

[Why Syzygy]

22. When it happens

I will feel good about it. The Zionists are legend for 'changing' their minds.

[pelsar]

24. we're fickled about that...

we have this problem when people shoot at us.....we tend to react, sometimes we shoot back (disproportionate force being the preferred option) or change policies,

[Name removed]

35. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[here_is_to_hope]

38. lolz....

Code language?

Having fun today? I sometimes get the feeling in you are a much later time zone and happy hour is in full effect!