Report: Assad forces kill 24 civilians in violent protests across Syria

[King_David]

Hundreds of thousands of protesters flood cities throughout Syria in day activists call largest outpour against Assad regime; No sign of security forces in Hama; Officials say 10,497 refugees still in Turkey.
By News AgenciesTags: SyriaBashar Assad

Syrian forces killed at least 24 civilians on Friday during pro-democracy protests across Syria and in military assaults on villages in a region bordering Turkey, prominent human rights lawyer Razan Zaitouna said.

Zaitouna told Reuters by phone that the 24 included seven people in the central city of Homs, scene of widening protests against President Bashar Assad and 14 villagers in the northwestern province of Idlib, where troops backed by tanks and helicopters have been storming villages to subdue dissent in rural areas near Turkey.


http://www.haaretz.com/news/mideast-in-turmoil/report-assad-forces-kill-24-civilians-in-violent-protests-across-syria-1.370806

[King_David]

1. Goldstone commission?

Urgent Security Council meeting?
BDS?
Syria = Racist?
Turkey breaking all ties ?
Flotillas to Syria?
Condemnation?


ANYTHING ??

[Fozzledick]

2. It's OK If You Are Not Israel

[King_David]

3. Yep , different story when it is The Jewish State. nt

[shaayecanaan]

4. Do you honestly think that there are no boycotts, divestment or sanctions against Syria?

Well, let me put your mind at ease:-

US Trade and Financial Sanctions against Syria:- http://damascus.usembassy.gov/sanctions-syr.html

EU expands sanctions against Syria:- http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2011/06/201162494326219146.html

Canada announces sanctions against Syria:- www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2011/05/24/pol-syria-sanctions.html

Australia imposes sanctions on Syria:- http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304657804576401001595074010.html

and as far as boycotts go, foreign tourists have just about abandoned Syria entirely:-

http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Syrian+protests+rout+tourists+empty+hotels/5024207/story.html

[King_David]

6. Security Council

Goldstone Commission?

Mass Demonstrations?

Anti Syria week at university campuses?

Concern on forums such as DU (Syria's very own dungeon? )

Cartoons?

Some Syrian Jew hating Diaspora antisemitism equivalence?

People with nothing to do with Syria or its conflict with raging hate?

[shaayecanaan]

32. "Some Syrian Jew hating Diaspora antisemitism equivalence?"

If you can figure out what that sentence means, then good luck to you.

"Anti Syria week at university campuses?"

You mean demonstrations at campuses by people wanting their universities to divest from Syria? A bit pointless considering that no universities are significantly invested in Syria in the first place.

"Concern on forums such as DU (Syria's very own dungeon?)"

This forum exists due to the inability for Israel-related topics to be posted elsewhere, presumably because the moderators still feel somewhat sensitive about such material being on the front page. I imagine that this sensitivity arises because of the potential association between criticism of Israel and anti-semitism. On the other hand, they're probably equally squeamish about banning discussion of Israel entirely. Therefore, there arises the need for a forum such as this, where Israel-related discussion can be sequestered and carefully moderated without it impacting on other sections of the site.

I do not think that there is a need for a Syria forum, as firstly, no such sensitivity regarding criticism of Syria exists, and secondly, there is much greater unanimity of opinion that the Syrian regime is a bad one, whereas there are quite a few people here who support the Israeli government.

Similarly, the absence of any seething debate on Syria on campus or elsewhere is a simple reflection of the fact that people generally accept the need for sanctions in relation to Syria. Both the Europeans and the United States support a Security Council resolution on Syria. China does not, but that has to do with its own domestic concerns about the Arab Spring, rather than any favouritism of Syria over Israel.

Put simply, I don't think your remarks even support your argument, if indeed you ever had one.

[LeftishBrit]

5. This is horrible.

The Syrian rulers should be prosecuted before the ICC, not that it will probably happen.

http://www.amnesty.org.uk/news_details.asp?NewsID=19426

Not sure how this ended up in I/P, though I suppose whatever happens in the Middle East is ultimately relevant to Israel and Palestine.

Anyway, I hope the Syrians have a future much better than their present situation.

[King_David]

7. It's an Israeli Newspaper

Syria is part of the conflict and cosiders some of their land to be occupied by Israel.

[azurnoir]

8. where's the 'sympathy for the Syrian people? It seems the sole reason for posting

is to complain about how Israel is treated but really absolutely no surprises

[TomClash]

9. Spot on

It is the only reason for the post. This has been all over AJ for months.

Diverting attention from land theft, 200 nuclear weapons and warmongering while cajoling everyone to shed the crocodile tears for some imagined DU antisemitism.

[King_David]

11. Your right I am diverting attention by posting the article

because the actual murderous events are not making any impact at all.

[Violet_Crumble]

13. The horse yr flogging is well and truly dead by now...

Not making any impact at all? Someone's already given you a list of links showing it's definately having an impact http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=124&topic_id=357174&mesg_id=357186

Not only is what's happening in Syria discussed in the big forums, but there's been threads about it here in the I/P forum, so I'm not sure what is to be achieved by pretending that no-one but you is paying any attention...

Syrian slaughter and Israeli restraint

Syrian President Bashar Assad's regime is slaughtering dozens of unarmed Syrian demonstrators every day. In Israel we cluck our tongues in shock and say he is "slaughtering his own people," but when the Israel Defense Forces killed 23 unarmed Syrian demonstrators in one day, we boasted that the IDF "acted with restraint."

Demonstrators in the Syrian city of Hama and protesters on the Golan border are similar not only in their nonlethal means, but also in their aims. Both are trying to change the established order. And the authorities' response in both places - live fire on demonstrators - is amazingly similar.

In Israel people will immediately explain that the IDF makes every effort not to kill the demonstrators, and indeed the number of fatalities in Syria is much higher, but the means are similar - live fire on unarmed demonstrators. And the fatality count might even prove to be comparable if, God forbid, the Golan demonstrators persist in their rebellion - and Israeli public opinion wouldn't have any problem with that, of course. Even if we resemble Syria, we don't appear that way to ourselves.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=124x355207

[King_David]

14. No , I think your wrong

It is never out of style to point out injustice.It is a progressive ideal to `flog this horse` as you say.
I think real progressives are not one issue people.
I think this horse has lots more to give.

ta ta ;-)

[Violet_Crumble]

16. You can think what you like, but you've been shown plenty of evidence that yr claim is false...

Shay has provided you with links to prove attention is being paid to Syria, and I've also provided one to where it's been discussed in this forum, so it seems more than a bit silly to sit there and continue to claim that no attention is paid to Syria. But if you think you can flog this particular dead horse some more and convince just one person that despite the facts to the contrary, yr correct, then go for yr life. It's actually quite entertaining to watch...

[King_David]

19. It is not silly at all

And i seem to be touching a nerve with you.

;)

[Violet_Crumble]

20. It's not silly to insist something when it's been repeatedly proven wrong? Uh, okay then...

There's no touched nerves involved in pointing that out for the benefit of anyone reading this thread, but if you want to take credit for touching nerves as well as falsely claiming no attention is paid to what's happening in Syria, knock yrself out...

Just to get things back on track, here's yet another of many examples of attention being paid to what's been happening in Syria.

http://www.amnesty.org/en/for-media/press-releases/security-council-must-refer-syria-icc-2011-04-26

I'm not sure why anyone would continue to try to argue that no attention gets paid to Syria.

[King_David]

22. Because I am 'Knocking myself out '

;)

[Violet_Crumble]

24. While yr doing that, take a look at more examples of attention paid to the situation in Syria...

Failing to move Russia, EU and U.S. slam Syria at U.N.

(Reuters) - Europe and the United States heaped criticism on Syria at the United Nations on Thursday after failing to persuade Russia to support condemning Damascus for its crackdown on anti-government protesters.

The occasion was the renewal of the mandate for a U.N. observer force in Syria's Israeli-occupied Golan Heights, where Israel accuses the Syrian government of orchestrating deadly confrontations between Palestinian protesters and Israeli troops on May 15 and June 5.

As expected, a resolution renewing the mandate for another six months until the end of this year received unanimous support from all 15 council members.

Normally the mandate renewal for the four-decade old force, known as UNDOF, is a routine event without fanfare or controversy. This year the situation was different as U.S. and European Union diplomats tried to include language condemning Syrian "human rights abuses" in the initial U.S.-drafted text.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/07/01/us-syria-un-idUSTRE7600CS20110701

[oberliner]

48. Those are governments

What about grass roots leftists along the lines of Code Pink and the flotilla organizers?

Do you believe there is a significant movement of that type in the US or elsewhere?

[Violet_Crumble]

49. I doubt there's any significant movement, but for good reason...

I doubt yr going to find more than a handful of people who'd support the actions of the Syrian government in the US either on the Left or the Right...

[shira]

17. Of course she's wrong. First, check out CodePink4Peace.org website...

They're all over the Gaza flotilla.

Now on their website out of all the hot topics they raise, find where they mention recent events in Syria.

Do a google site search for it if you have to do so.

Let me know what you find.

:eyes:

[Violet_Crumble]

18. What am I supposedly wrong about?

I'm not sure you even understand what the claim was that 'King David' was making. Can you tell me exactly what it is you think he was claiming?

on edit: removed duplicate 'even' from first sentence...

[shira]

25. Sanctimonious Israel bashers like the flotilla folks don't give a rip about Syria. n/t

[Violet_Crumble]

26. That's not the point the other poster was making...

The other poster falsely claimed that the events in Syria weren't getting any attention. They've been shown evidence from several posters in this thread that it's definately not the case....

[shira]

27. I think that's definitely part of it. Those most critical of Israel are rightwing humanitarians...

Sanctimonious bigots who are very selective and definitely not for universal human rights.

Or, in this case when they say they're liberals and leftists, their view is pretty much liberalism for liberals and cannibalism for cannibals.

Do you see the problem with CodePink advocacy?

[Violet_Crumble]

28. No, the poster claimed no attention was given to Syria...

Read posts 1, 6 and 11. They were incorrect, yet you posted agreeing with them. It really is ridiculous to then turn around and start pointing at tiny groups I've never heard of and groups of individuals who you don't even know and claim they don't pay attention to Syria. At the level that matters, which is a global one, there's a lot of attention being paid to Syria...

I'm not familiar with CodePink and think I may only have heard them mentioned once or twice long ago. I'm not sure why yr bringing them up.

[shira]

29. CodePink is THE major political Leftist organization behind the flotilla this year...

...and they have nothing on their websites about recent events in Syria.

If there are other political groups besides CodePink that don't only advocate mostly against Israel, I'd like to learn about them if you can find any...

[Violet_Crumble]

30. Do you now agree that the other poster made an incorrect claim?

Their claim was that no attention is paid to Syria, and repeated that claim despite being shown evidence to the contrary. The poster didn't claim that some small groups haven't said anything about Syria, they claimed that no attention was paid to Syria at the international level, hence the reference to the UN etc...

I'm not sure why yr changing the subject to the flotilla. I wouldn't mind so much if there weren't already a veritable ocean of threads currently going on about it, and while I'm aware that yr investing a whole lot of emotional energy in trying to make out it's a thing of utter evil out to destroy Israel, I haven't got more than a passing interest and aren't interested in engaging in some flotilla back and forth in this thread. If you want to do that, yr going to have to find someone else to do it with. All I was interested in was the false claim made about attention paid to Syria...

[oberliner]

31. I think less attention is paid to Syria than Israel by the left

Not that no attention is paid to Syria, but I think that the situation in Israel with respect to the Palestinians, especially in Gaza and to a lesser extent the West Bank results in more attention and direct action from the peace movement in the US and possibly elsewhere generally speaking.

[shaayecanaan]

33. I think more attention is paid to Gay Marriage than to starving children in Africa by the left...

Does that mean that individual leftists don't care about the starving children? Probably not, it just means that the starving children are less of a partisan issue and therefore tend to attract rather less public debate. OTOH, Gay Marriage attracts a lot of debate because it is divisive and therefore functions as something of a "call to arms" by both sides.

Israel is fast becoming a partisan issue, between those on the Right that strongly support Israel and those on the Left that sympathise with the Palestinians instead. I doubt however that there is public support for the Syrian regime in any segment of the population - in fact virtually everyone from hardcore Islamic fundamentalists, to Leftists and Right-wing Republicans would agree that the Syrian regime has got to go.

[shira]

35. Why don't you think Syria is mentioned on CodePink's websites? n/t

[azurnoir]

41. Could it be because there is very little direct US involvment or support ?

no no never must be antisemitism huh? we all just know codepink is only concerned with Israel

eta anyone can take a 'gander' at codepinks issues page here

http://www.codepink4peace.org/article.php?list=type&type=5

[oberliner]

47. Code Pink kissed Mubarek's butt when he was in charge of Egypt & the US was directly supporting him

How do you explain that?

[King_David]

36. Hard Right like David Duke ,Buchanan,Paul

Definitely support Palestinians over Israel.

[shaayecanaan]

38. Hard right like English Defence League, Jewish Defence League,

Hindu Unity, the Christian Phlangists, most far-right parties in Europe, etc etc, definitely support Israel over the Palestinians. Or to put it another way, they hate Arabs and Muslims more than Jews.

[King_David]

40. Actually the Far Right and the Far Left

Meet in in their hatred of Jews and Israel.

A lot of the far Right and Left support the Palestinians over Israel.

[shaayecanaan]

44. Historically, the Left has opposed imperialism...

once upon a time, that meant supporting the Jewish militias in their fight against the British imperial presence in Palestine - which is why the Soviets chose to recognise Israel early on.

Since that time, however, the Israeli occupation of Palestine has come to be seen as an imperial endeavour in its own right. So you are quite right that by and large, the Left does support the Palestinians. The reasons for this though are quite different from some supposed plenary hatred of Jews and Israel - although I'm aware by now that certain posters on this forum see anti-Semitism practically everywhere.

I think there's an old joke that if we ever find intelligent life on Mars the Christians will be asking them if they believe in Jesus, the Muslims will try to figure out how to pray to Mecca when it is located directly overhead, and the Jews will be busy determining whether the Martians are: (A) a lost tribe or (B) probably anti-semitic.

[oberliner]

46. I agree with you there

I don't however believe that everyone agrees that the Syrian regime has got to go.

In fact, I don't think most people (in the US) could tell you anything about the Syrian regime one way or another.

Edit to add: I would note that there has not been a major sustained organized movement against the ruling autocracy of Syria which has been in place for decades. Certainly nothing like what exists to try to combat starvation in Africa.

[King_David]

34. Instead of you explaining what I meant (incorrectly)

See what Oberliner says in reply to you Post #31 (correctly)

Got it?

Good !

[Violet_Crumble]

37. Ah! So yr not claiming no attention is paid to Syria??

Post #1 with the 'anything?' appeal and 11 with you saying 'because the actual murderous events are not making any impact at all' are saying something very different than what Obie said. Clearly there's some confusion so in order to clear it up could you clarify whether in those posts you were claiming that no attention was paid to Syria or whether you think Syria gets less attention than the I/p conflict

[King_David]

39. Show me where I said 'no attention is paid to Syria'

Actually what 'I was claiming' is exactly what Oberliner said and not some
hidden puzzle that can be decoded only by a super secret spy looking into
words like 'anything' and then ascertaining that that CLEARLY means
'no attention was paid to Syria '

I do not need to clarify ANYTHING (theres that word again) .

I already told you that Oberliner was spot on.

There is no hidden meanings there.

Got it?

Good !

[Violet_Crumble]

42. No, Obie didn't claim what's happening isn't making any impact at all

He said something very different to that. But as you don't want to clarify what you actually meant to say, I'll read yr words literally and acknowledge that what you said about Syria was 'because the actual murderous events are not making any impact at all.'

[King_David]

43. Okie Dokie

You seem to know way better than I do what I mean when I post.

You should be a de-coder for some secret service.

Cheers !

:eyes:

(I end this discussion here )

[Violet_Crumble]

45. Nah, I just quoted exactly what you said. Is there some hidden meaning you want to share with us?

If by saying 'because the actual murderous events are not making any impact at all.' and 'Goldstone commission? Urgent Security Council meeting? BDS? Syria = Racist? Turkey breaking all ties ? Flotillas to Syria? Condemnation? ANYTHING ??', you were actually meaning to say that you think less attention is paid to Syria than Israel, then there's probably a need to be at least slightly willing to politely explain what you really mean if someone asks for clarification. As an example of a clearly communicated viewpoint, I'd point you to the post from Obie that yr saying is what you meant all along. If you meant that the Left pays more attention to the I/P conflict than Syria, it could help to mention that in the three posts that I was basing my responses on, or to have clarified what you were meaning to say in yr first response to me....

[azurnoir]

21. so far the only 'injustice' you've pointed out

is that more attention thus far has been paid to the situation between Israel and Palestine with a focus on the seige of Gaza which has been going on for 4 years than to the current situation in Syria which has been on going for 3 or 4 months now, thus proving my original point

[King_David]

10. YOU KNOW WHAT MY MOTIVES ARE?

Please enlighten us all,do not hold back .

[azurnoir]

12. your comments 1,3, and 6 pretty well outline that n/t

[King_David]

15. OK ,I must be dense

I do not see or ascribe motives kinda like a Rorschach chart.

But thanks.

[azurnoir]

23. Rorschach? simple ability to read would fit the bill nicely though n/t