Zionists relax; Israel is not on the brink of destruction

[LeftishBrit]

I would suggest that Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's coalition officially be named the Gevalt! Government. Listening to the utterances of our ministers, you would come to the conclusion that the State of Israel is about to be erased and the Jewish people are in danger of immediate extinction.

In fact, it is nowadays the bon ton to join the Gevalt! chorus. Those who say that all this panicking is irrational are considered to be unpatriotic. A true Zionist and a good Jew is supposed to be in constant dread and must brace for the ultimate fight for the Masada that Israel has become and that is under threat from everywhere.

Here is another way of looking at Israel’s situation: Israel is quite safe and has a lot of constructive options. Palestinians were never as willing to move ahead toward peace with Israel. In the long run, the new developments in the Arab world are likely to lead to more democracy and stability; Israel still has the option of normalizing its relationships with the Arab world that has now been on the table for almost nine years, through the Arab League Peace Initiative. This is also indicated by a new poll showing that two thirds of Egyptians favor maintaining peace with Israel.

This is not the assessment of some starry-eyed idealist. It is that of the hard-headed and daring former Mossad chief Meir Dagan. The brouhaha that ensued after he gave his assessment showed that the Gevalt! Government is incapable of living with level-headed, calm and rational thought...

(Much more at link):

http://www.haaretz.com/blogs/strenger-than-fiction/zionists-relax-israel-is-not-on-the-brink-of-destruction-1.370455.

[PCIntern]

1. I recall a line from an Ian fleming James bond novel:

to paraphrase: You get too relaxed, you get dead.

[tootrueleft]

6. How ironic that you quote a fictional story to refer to the threat to israels survival.

[shaayecanaan]

9. What an intellectually lazy post (nt)

[shira]

11. Yeah, let's see how lots of 911's on a grand scale changes a population's opinions...

That, as well as the fact that a significant percentage of Israel's neighbors want to see dead Israeli children.

Imagine western nations in the same predicament with wonderful neighbors like that.

I wonder how many would be "relaxing" in a similar situation.

[Violet_Crumble]

2. The article by Shlomo Avineri linked to in the OP is well worth reading...

No one is questioning Israel's legitimacy

The truth is there are no significant moves afoot anywhere on Earth to delegitimize Israel. There are small, marginal groups, primarily among extreme left wing academics, that are nourished in part by Arab propaganda and cast doubt on Israel's right to exist. But no country that maintains diplomatic relations with Israel has ever made any claim against its legitimate existence, and Israel's membership in the UN is the best possible proof of this.

Israel's government has turned delegitimization - an issue located on the vocal but ephemeral margins of international political discourse - into a problem that must be dealt with. It has thereby granted a marginal, unimportant position a status out of all proportion to its true dimensions.

Even Adm. Eliezer Marom, the commander of the navy - who is a bold warrior, but not exactly an expert in political theory or international law - warned that the latest planned flotilla to the Gaza Strip is meant to delegitimize Israel. This is far too reminiscent of the (failed ) tropes of Soviet propaganda, which presented every criticism of the Soviet Union as an assault on the Soviet state's very right to exist. Such claims are completely delusional: Criticism of the naval blockade on Gaza does not constitute delegitimization of Israel.

It's clear why right wing political figures have an interest in inflating every criticism of Israel and raising it to the level of delegitimization: Most criticism of Israel relates to its settlement policy, which is a cornerstone of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's government, but is far from being accepted by the entire Israeli political spectrum.

http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/opinion/no-one-is-questioning-israel-s-legitimacy-1.370169

[oberliner]

3. More than 30 countries have no diplomatic relations with Israel

Including the majority of the countries in its immediate geographical region.

As for the UN, Israel has never been permitted to serve on the security council - whereas countries with no diplomatic relations with Israel regularly serve.

While criticism of the naval blockade on Gaza does not constitute delegitimization of Israel, there are certainly participants of the flotilla who occupy "the vocal but ephemeral margins of international political discourse" with respect to Israel.

Is calling for a one-state-solution the same as delegitimizing Israel?

That's the question I would put to the author.

[Violet_Crumble]

4. But of those, how many have offered normalisation of relations?

Not having diplomatic relations with a country doesn't mean they're calling for its destruction, or delegitimisation. Of course there's Iran, but even that's not anything that can be seen as any sort of serious threat of Israel being on the brink of destruction.

I wouldn't say that Israel not serving on the Security Council can be seen that way, either. Spots on the Security Council are hotly contested, and lots depend on gaining support from blocs of countries. I'm not sure how many countries have never made an appearance on the SC, though I'm sure there's more than a handful. This points more to a need for the UN to reform the Security Council than anything else, imo...

I agree with you that criticism of the blockade of Gaza doesn't constitute delegitimisation, and I think it would be silly to assume that all participants of the flotilla aren't part of the marginal group the author discussed, but without knowing of the views of all participants, I'd be guessing they're few in number. The names I've seen of people who are participating are those who would definately not fall into that group...

I haven't read anything from the author to know what his views on a one-state solution are, though my own take on it is that supporting a one-state solution along the lines of that envisioned by Martin Buber isn't delegitimising Israel. OTOH, wanting Israel to vanish and its population to go away somewhere else would be...

[oberliner]

8. Many of them have - under the right circumstances

I only made mention of the number because the article you posted says that no country with diplomatic relations have taken such actions, but there are, in fact, quite a few countries that do not have such relations, including many in that very neighborhood.

The Security Council exclusion speaks to the fact that Israel had not been permitted to be a part of any UN regional group. They were not allowed into their own natural geographical regional grouping due to the refusal of the countries therein. Only recently have they been able to join a group (albeit not in their actual region).

Who then are the marginal people on the left the author refers to if not those who are involved in the flotilla? Are not the flotilla organizers connected to the BDS movement in some cases? Does the BDS movement not represent the sort of folks the author is talking about?

Many of those who support the one-state solution do not believe that the State of Israel as currently conceived is a legitimate country. Is that not a fair statement? Almost no one in the world would support your last sentence, there are however people who believe that the Zionist regime is illegitimate and must be removed. Those people do not say that the population needs to go away somewhere else. This is still delegitimization is it not? Isn't this what the President of Iran says?

[Violet_Crumble]

12. The Western European and Others regional grouping...

When it comes to countries not being in their geographic regional groups, both Australia and New Zealand join Israel as being the 'Other' part of the Western European group. I would have thought politically, it'd be better to be a member of WEOG than the Asian group, and don't really understand why we're in one group and other Pacific islands are in the Asian group.

I think the marginal people he describes are ones who don't think Israel should exist at all, and would prefer an Arab state in what is now Israel and the Occupied Territories. While there may be some like that who support the BDS movement, I don't think just because someone is involved with the movement makes them one of those types. I support BDS with a large emphasis on the sanctions bit, and do so solely because I want the occupation ended and the settlements removed....

[oberliner]

13. I might be reading too much Mondoweiss

A lot of talk of "defeating Zionism" and whatnot.

Here's my opinion of who is a "delegitimizer" and who isn't.

I think people who say Israel must leave the territories, end the occupation, remove all settlements, recognize an independent Palestinian state in all of Gaza and the West Bank including East Jerusalem cannot in any way be considered to be delegitmizers.

I think the people who support something closer to the "Isratine" solution proposed by Colonel Ghadaffi are delegitimizers. That is to say, they believe that the state of Israel, based on the Zionist concept of a Jewish state, is not legitimate and ought not to exist in its current incarnation.

I think there are flotilla participants and supports in both categories. I would daresay that there are more of them in the latter category just based on what I have read on their site, but that may not be fair.

I guess my question to you would be this: Are people who say that Zionism must be defeated or eliminated are attacking the legitimacy of Israel? I think they are.

[Violet_Crumble]

14. I suspect those sort of comments come from the small but vocal fringes...

My opinion is that people who post on blogs can't really delegitimise anything. I do think what the author said is correct about there being no significant moves to delegitimse Israel, and it only being on the periphery of international political discourse. Nutty, like all RWers, stokes it into something massive to play on people's fears, and many swallow it because it makes their 'understanding' of the conflict simple and easy for them.

About yr question. Does answering yes mean that I'd be including folk who support one binational state with equal rights for all regardless of their religion or ethnicity? If it doesn't, then I would agree with you...

On edit: I was just thinking of other states where being opposed to the political ideology that underpins the state could be seen as delegitimisation. Saudi Arabia springs to mind. I'm one of a vast number of individuals, as well as there being many other states, who are totally opposed to how that state operates in denying women the right to vote, drive a car, or go anywhere without a male going with them. I don't see that as delegitimisation. I'm happy for Saudi Arabia to exist, but some of the ideals that underpin that state need to be gotten rid of...

[Ken Burch]

5. Most countries in the UN have never been on the Security Council

Why is Israel any more entitled than any other to that status?

And advocating a single-state solution would not necessarily equate to de-legitimization as long as they made it clear that both national groups in Israel would be protected from discrimination and repression and the protections for the Jewish religion and culture that exist under the present structure would remain.

If you really want to stop the single-state proponents, then join with those who oppose Israel's insistence on making any Palestinian state as tiny and helpless as possible. Accept that such a state has just as much right to an defense force and just as much recognition of the right to act in self-defense as Israel does(since we obviously can't assume, based on past behavior, that Israel would never launch an unprovoked attack against that state).

[oberliner]

7. Israel had been the only UN member excluded from a regional group until 2004

Why do you think that is the case?

Also, every country in the MIddle East has served on the Security Council except Israel and SA.

A single state solution does not posit that Israel, as it stands, is not legitimate?

[shira]

10. The reason for that cannot possibly be antisemitism. No, no, no! n/t