Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Did the Red Cross say there's no humanitarian crisis in Gaza?

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Israel/Palestine Donate to DU
 
Jefferson23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-11 10:41 AM
Original message
Did the Red Cross say there's no humanitarian crisis in Gaza?
Technically, yes. But the Red Cross says chronic shortages create deplorable economic and medical conditions.

By Dan Murphy, Staff writer / July 6, 2011

"The Red Cross says there's no humanitarian crisis in Gaza, therefore the Gaza flotilla is a waste of time."

Comments much like this have been made by readers on stories I've written about the efforts of pro-Palestinian activists to symbolically run the Israeli blockade of Gaza in the past couple of weeks. They have also been a major piece of ammunition on the pro-Israel side of the "he said, she said" propaganda war that's been raging for weeks (which have also included a hoax video about a gay activist spurned by the flotilla and allegations that the activists were preparing to attack Israeli soldiers with sulfur, later refuted by Israeli lawmakers.)

The Gaza flotilla this year was defeated by successful Israeli diplomacy, which persuaded Greece to prevent the boats from leaving its ports. Most of the European and American activists participating have begun trickling home. They say their effort was about more than a "humanitarian crisis," that the overall burden on Gaza's people is too great because they don't have any control over how to get goods in or out.

RELATED: Israel's new friend: Why Greece is thwarting Gaza flotilla

But is the assertion that there is "no humanitarian crisis" true? Well, sort of. In April, Israeli Defense Forces spokeswoman Rotem Caro Weizman published a piece on the IDF website that detailed an interview with "Mathilde Redmatn," the deputy director of the Red Cross in Gaza headlined "Red Cross Official: There is no humanitarian crisis in Gaza".

snip* (There are in fact nice restaurants in Gaza and a few good supermarkets. But they generally cater to foreign aid workers, journalists, and rich Gazans, some of whom are members of a proto-mafia class that has grown rich thanks to control of smuggling tunnels along the Egyptian border. For average residents, they're out of reach).

in full: http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Backchannels/2011/0706/Did-the-Red-Cross-say-there-s-no-humanitarian-crisis-in-Gaza
Refresh | 0 Recommendations Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
Jefferson23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-11 10:45 AM
Response to Original message
1. Snip*
"Gaza is more dependent than ever on outside aid. For young people – fully 50 percent of Gaza's 1.5 million residents are under 18 years of age – there is a crushing lack of prospects," she said. "The strict limits on imports and the almost absolute ban on exports imposed by Israel make economic recovery impossible... The entry of goods into Gaza is also still highly restricted, not only in terms of quantity but also in terms of the particular items allowed. Long delays are frequent. Some goods that are allowed in are so expensive that their availability hardly matters to the vast majority of the population, who could never afford them... Imports of construction supplies and raw materials are still mostly banned, even though they are vital to the territory's infrastructure and economic recovery."

Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
pelsar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-11 11:17 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. your beating a dead horse.....buts its good for propaganda
Edited on Thu Jul-07-11 11:26 AM by pelsar
its been documented so many times of the food in gaza, cheaper prices in gaza then in egypt, new cars, restaurants, etc
how about 16% growth rate?....

you like documentation....

http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=400330
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/israel/7806209/Dispatch-Just-how-hungry-is-Gaza.html
http://aliabunimah.posterous.com/my-source-was-right-gaza-economic-growth-is-o

the problem is one running a society, food subsidies, distribution, politics with your neighbors....not hamas strong side, but still their responsibility.

your complaint to israel has now come down to bureaucratic and security delays, high food prices-wow, those really evil israelis

.....anything israel doesnt supply, there is always the egypt option and of course the tunnelers are pretty busy these days as well (bringing in concrete....)

OOOPS did i mention the "country that shall not be named" i apologize for that gross sin, i surly would not want to ruin a good propaganda run now would I?
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
Jefferson23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-11 02:45 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Yea, it's like Disney land...no worries. The info from the Red Cross stands
and the reader can decide.

I'll leave this for those interested:

Never mind the 'Freedom Flotilla.' Is Israel's Gaza blockade legal?

Israel has laid out a meticulous legal justification for its fatal raid on a Turkish-flagged boat, which was sailing in international waters as part of the 'Freedom Flotilla.' But most countries have focused on whether Israel's Gaza blockade is legal.

Both sides immediately claimed the protection of international law, with Israel citing legal justification for effectively extending its naval blockade into international waters where the flotilla was heading for Gaza. Yet for most Western governments, with the exception of the United States, the question is not so much the legality or illegality of Israel’s action. Rather, European countries from Germany to Britain are focusing on the broader legal context of Israel’s blockade of the Gaza Strip and the suffering of civilians there.

Lists of items forbidden to enter under the blockade include everything from canned fruit and fishing rods to musical instruments, donkeys, and nutmeg. A ban on concrete and iron, carried by the “Freedom Flotilla,” aims to stop the building of rocket-proof bunkers – but has hampered reconstruction in the wake of Israel’s 2009 offensive to stop Hamas rocket fire.

IN PICTURES: The Gaza flotilla and the aftermath of the Israeli naval raid

Three reports last month assessed the damage a year after the offensive ended. The United Nations Development Program said three-quarters of the damage “remains unrepaired and unreconstructed.” The UN's Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs noted some 40 percent of Gazans lack adequate food, while American Near East Relief found 8 in 10 people need aid. In addition, pools of untreated sewage have grown as large as 100 acres in recent months.

Why some say legality of flotilla attack is a moot point
Indeed, living conditions in Gaza are so bad that by some readings of international law, the legality of the flotilla attack is a moot point.

“There is a clear link between conditions in Gaza and international law that is relevant this week,” says Mark Ellis, executive director of the International Bar Association in London. “At the heart of humanitarian law, the laws of war, and human rights law is a need to ensure that civilians are protected and do not disproportionately suffer from the actions of a state.

“Right now, every objective assessment is that Gazans are suffering. The elephant in the room in flotilla-attack legal debates is the blockade. The real need is a focus on the legality of the conditions of people in Gaza.”

Israel: International law not mature enough to deal with Hamas threat
Israel sees it differently. Its justification for the flotilla attack and its Gaza policy rests on two pillars: First, Israel maintains – in the face of intense international disagreement – that Palestinians are not unduly suffering in Gaza. Second, it argues that international law is not mature enough to handle Israel’s unique security problems; Israel lives in a rough neighborhood with a threat from Hamas too severe for law professors to grasp, and it must rely on its own interpretation of international law.

Michael Oren, Israel’s ambassador to the US, told Fox News that the flotilla raid was “perfectly legal, perfectly humane,” and that “Israel acted in accord with international law.... Any state has the right to protect itself, certainly from a terrorist threat such as Hamas, including on the open seas.”

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu asserted on June 2 that Hamas continues to smuggle rockets and that “there’s no humanitarian crisis in Gaza. Each week an average of 10,000 tons of goods enter Gaza. There’s no shortage of food. There’s no shortage of medicine. There’s no shortage of other goods. So our naval personnel had no choice but to board these vessels.”

The World Food program has said that 400 trucks are needed in Gaza per day, or 2,800 per week, to meet basic nutritional needs. According to Israeli data (PDF), an average of 371 truckloads of food products were delivered per week in 2009 and 310 per week so far in 2010.

Israel's legal argument for flotilla raid:

Confusion remains over whether Israel extended its naval blockade from 20 to 68 miles into the open sea – or whether Israel never extended but simply intercepted the ships on grounds they had intent to bust the blockade.

Israel claims its flotilla raid was legal under the San Remo Manual on International Law Applicable to Armed Conflicts at Sea. Israel says the law entitles it to enforce a blockade, even in international waters.

Clause 67 of San Remo does allow interdiction of neutral ships in a war among states if, as the clause spells out, the ship is “reasonably” suspected of “breaching a blockade.” Yet San Remo is not a consensus treaty or legally binding, according to the Red Cross; moreover, it doesn’t offer authority for extending military jurisdiction into open seas without a formal conflict.

But few legal experts agree that Israel can suspend the paramount UN Charter on the Law of the Sea to expand a blockade overnight or preemptively intercept ships.

Under the UN charter, vessels on the high seas are subject to the jurisdiction of the flag state of that vessel. No one can board. Exceptions include: a vessel that doesn’t fly a flag, a vessel suspected of being pirated, or vessels suspected of violating international sanctions, such as North Korean ships thought to carry nuclear materials. Even carrying weapons at sea doesn’t violate international law.

That’s why most international jurists say Israel cannot legally justify the boarding of a sovereign ship protected under the charter. “In legal terms, the Turkish ship was Turkish territory,” argues former British Ambassador Craig Murray, a fellow at the University of Lancaster School of Law.

Marcelo Kohen, a law professor at Geneva’s Graduate Institute of International Studies, agrees that the requirements needed to claim a San Remo justification were not complete. “Hamas is not a state," he says. "There is also at present a cease-fire on Gaza," whereas San Remo is assumed to be relevant in a state of war, says Kohen.

"Under logic one could maintain a maritime blockade unendingly," he adds. "It only requires one party to consider itself as being in a ‘state of war.’ ”

Gaza specialist Sara Roy at Harvard University, an author and frequent critic of Israeli policy, argues that legal questions can distort more basic issues: “After its 2005 withdrawal from Gaza, Israel claims no longer to be an occupier. It claims no responsibility, but acts with total control. Meanwhile, the international community pays the bills and feeds the people.”

http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Middle-East/2010/0608/Never-mind-the-Freedom-Flotilla.-Is-Israel-s-Gaza-blockade-legal/(page)/2
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
shira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-11 02:57 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Again with the illegal blockade? UN: Flotilla report says blockade legal
A report on the 2010 Free Gaza flotilla, postponed Wednesday due to stalemated talks between Israel and Turkey, contains harsh criticism against both states but insists the naval blockade is legal, Israeli sources told Ynet.
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4092023,00.html
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
tootrueleft Donating Member (385 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-11 04:30 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Any non israeli officials commenting that the report will find israels blockade legal?
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
henank Donating Member (755 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-11 04:46 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. Yes. And they did not like it one little bit
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
shira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-11 05:17 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Head will explode. Good! The truth eventually gets out as it always does. n/t
Edited on Thu Jul-07-11 05:18 PM by shira
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
tootrueleft Donating Member (385 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-11 04:38 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. Oh, and love the deliberate misquoted newspaper headline. It should be 'Sources' not 'UN'
Tisk tisk
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
shira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-11 05:09 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. Oh dear, what will you do now that the UN says the blockade is legal? n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
tootrueleft Donating Member (385 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-11 06:09 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. Why did you change the headline from "Sources" to "UN"? If you honestly believe your argument why
Edited on Thu Jul-07-11 06:13 PM by tootrueleft
do something so seemingly dishonest while making your case? Was it a genuine mistake?
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
shira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-11 06:48 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. Because the UN report actually says that. It's not just sources as the link in #7 proves. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
shira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-11 07:33 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. Now this should be good, but how can a LEGAL blockade be collective punishment? n/t
Edited on Thu Jul-07-11 07:36 PM by shira
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
tootrueleft Donating Member (385 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-08-11 05:44 AM
Response to Reply #13
16. LOL! How can a legally held firearm kill someone. In love with the UN all of a sudden shira??
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
shira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-08-11 08:32 AM
Response to Reply #16
20. But you've been saying it was a murderous execution. What will you do now...
...that the UN is debunking all that abusive filth vs. the IDF and Israel?

Onto the next slanderous accusation?
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
tootrueleft Donating Member (385 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-08-11 08:41 AM
Response to Reply #20
22. So we can take it you also agree with the part of the report that says the IDF used excessive force?
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
shira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-08-11 10:45 AM
Response to Reply #22
31. No problem, I accept the report if sources are correct. How about you? n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
tootrueleft Donating Member (385 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-08-11 10:52 AM
Response to Reply #31
32. Didn't we all see you rabidly defend the use of force by the IDF?
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
shira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-08-11 10:54 AM
Response to Reply #32
33. Awww, I asked you a question and you're dodging again. I don't have to accept every little detail..
Edited on Fri Jul-08-11 10:54 AM by shira
...in this report by accepting it overall.

Now how about yourself?
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
tootrueleft Donating Member (385 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-08-11 01:53 PM
Response to Reply #33
34. How can you accept ANY detail when the reports details haven't seen the light of day?
Oh thats right, oficials from the side who pulled the triggers said so LOL!!
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
King_David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-08-11 05:39 PM
Response to Reply #34
35. LOL.Why not answer Shira`s Question

The one about the blockade being legal according to the UN.

What is with the dodge?

LOL LOL
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
Jefferson23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-11 06:46 PM
Response to Reply #4
11. snip*
That’s why most international jurists say Israel cannot legally justify the boarding of a sovereign ship protected under the charter. “In legal terms, the Turkish ship was Turkish territory,” argues former British Ambassador Craig Murray, a fellow at the University of Lancaster School of Law.

Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
shira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-11 09:50 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. Same UN report says boarding was legal too. AND no apology required from Israel to Turkey.
Edited on Thu Jul-07-11 09:58 PM by shira
Turkey is also getting ripped for its role in the provocation, as well as its cooperation with the IHH.

In addition, the Turkel commission was credited with being professional in its investigation.

==============

So let's hear more bullshit about...

The illegal blockade
Illegal collective punishment
How the IDF murdered/executed "peace activists"
Etc, etc...

:eyes:

Maybe switch back to the Goldstone Report....... oh wait, Goldstone backtracked on the main conclusion.

It's okay - even though Hamas and friends of Hamas' lies have finally been exposed, the damage is done and that was the entire point, wasn't it?

:shrug:

Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
King_David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-11 11:11 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. yep
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
shira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-08-11 08:52 AM
Response to Reply #15
26. Yep, move onto the next lie. Never question whether nasty anti-Israel allegations are bogus. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
tootrueleft Donating Member (385 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-08-11 05:45 AM
Response to Reply #14
17. I take it you have a copy of the report. Linky please.....
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
oberliner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-08-11 08:27 AM
Response to Reply #17
19. The report has not been released publicly yet
In fact, it may never be.
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
shira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-08-11 08:34 AM
Response to Reply #17
21. Here's an article explaining it, read it and weep...
http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/gaza-flotilla-probe-idf-used-excessive-force-but-naval-blockade-legal-1.371821

I'm sure you'll claim Haaretz is a pro-settler rag and none of this is true but when the facts come out in a few days you'll just disappear from sight for a few days and continue with more false allegations...
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-08-11 08:44 AM
Response to Reply #21
23. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
shira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-08-11 08:51 AM
Response to Reply #23
25. LOL, true to form! But what will you do when the UN report is released?
Wait to jump on yet another malicious lie against Israel or its citizens?

Without questioning whether it's true or not?
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-08-11 09:05 AM
Response to Reply #25
27. Deleted message
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Jefferson23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-08-11 08:15 AM
Response to Reply #14
18. it would help you if you'd actually read what you post before you make
a claim based on the OP you're referring to. There is no need to switch back to anything, the
issues are addressed with international jurists opinions, as the Op from the CSM covers.
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
shira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-08-11 08:47 AM
Response to Reply #18
24. Do you still believe there's a humanitarian crisis in Gaza? n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
Jefferson23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-08-11 09:35 AM
Response to Reply #24
28. You don't appreciate the details it seems to me. Collectively the
reports from various groups do not paint a positive picture, do they?

There is specific information that speaks to the concerns that are not
addressed.
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
shira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-08-11 10:20 AM
Response to Reply #28
29. So yes, you do believe there's still a humanitarian crisis in Gaza. Wow.
Edited on Fri Jul-08-11 10:24 AM by shira
You realize the manner in which these bozos try to define "humanitarian crisis" could work for much of the civilized world?
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
Jefferson23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-08-11 10:42 AM
Response to Reply #29
30. Once Israel ends the occupation and makes peace with the Palestinians
they may be able to have a viable state..it will take time and a great deal of effort
for them to realize their goal.

That you have no respect for the human rights groups etc, is of no concern to me.
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
Violet_Crumble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-08-11 05:55 PM
Response to Original message
36. I'd agree that conditions are deplorable...
Materials to rebuild the many homes destroyed by Israel a few years ago should have been made available immediately. Likewise with equipment needed to maintain medical equipment.
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Sun Dec 22nd 2024, 04:08 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Israel/Palestine Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC