South African ASA Ruling: Israel Can be Labelled an Apartheid State

[Scurrilous]

<snip>

"Earlier this week in a bold statement against Israel, South Africa’s media watchdog the 'Advertising Standards Agency’ (ASA), dismissed complaints relating to an advert of 5fm radio that called for a boycott of Israel while comparing Israel to Apartheid South Africa.

The advert aired in South Africa in February this year, starred Dave Randall, lead guitarist of the band Faithless, where he stated: ‘Twenty years ago I would not have played in apartheid South Africa; today I refuse to play in Israel. Be on the right side of history. Don’t entertain apartheid. Join the international boycott of Israel.’

As a result an official complaint was filed to ASA by the South African Jewish Board of Deputies (SAJBD), expressing that the adverts claim that Israel was an Apartheid State was ‘untrue, not supported by any evidence… and contains a lie which amounts to false propaganda.’

This week the ASA completely dismissed every complaint made by SAJBD against the advert."

http://english.pnn.ps/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=10408&Itemid=63

[King_David]

1. The ' South African Jewish Board of Deputies '

Is not very popular or well liked in South Africa.

Nor the SA Zionist Federation

Nor any other Heeb group.

Its just the way of the world, there is nothing new under the sun (GBS)

[tootrueleft]

2. Yep, white south africa used to play the victim card pretty good as well.

[shira]

4. Haters gonna keep on hatin', right? Doing what they do.... n/t

[shira]

3. "This week the ASA completely dismissed every complaint made by SAJBD against the advert."

Wow, just like the UCU rejecting anything the Joooz have to say...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php/www/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=124&topic_id=354297&mesg_id=354297

Same hateful, bigoted shit, just a different day.

:eyes:

[AverageJoe90]

6. So true.

I personally despise the Likudniks to all hell, nor do I appreciate the border wall, but Israel is NOT a true Apartheid State. At least in Israel people aren't forbidden from congregating with one another......unlike how it was, say, in certain parts of the U.S. up until the '60s(anybody remember segregation?), or South Africa until 1994.

[Violet_Crumble]

7. That's not true at all...

Yr agreeing with that poster's opinion that the ASA is antisemitic because it rejected the complaint about an ad?? And yr agreeing with that if someone doesn't agree with the EU definition of antisemitism, they're an antisemite?? Wow...

[AverageJoe90]

30. Uh, what?

I don't recall mentioning anti-Semitism at all, here............

[Violet_Crumble]

31. No, but the person you replied to with 'so true' did...

I thought bigotry against Jews was called antisemitism. And that's what the poster was claiming, and supporting it with a link to some post where the EU working definition of antisemitism is rejected. I'd doubt you'd think that either the rejection of a complaint about an ad nor rejecting the latter would be examples of antisemitism, so I was a bit surprised to see you agree...

[Violet_Crumble]

5. How many complaints against the ad did that group make?

I was having lunch yesterday with a friend who works for our advertising watchdog and she was telling me about how they get to know some individuals and groups who are so obsessed with their particular issue that they fire off multiple complaints demanding immediate removal of whatever ad they're complaining about. And the vast majority of times it's done by people who are offended that a view's being expressed that's contrary to their own specific worldview, and they don't give a toss about anyone else's freedom of speech other than their own..

[King_David]

8. Fighting Bigotry

And demonization of a minority group
never goes out of style.

[Violet_Crumble]

9. The ad wasn't bigoted, though, nor was there any demonisation of any minority group......

Those who oppose ads tend to be bigots themselves, who are intent on forcing their worldview onto everyone. That's why some of the most complained about ads here recently have been one ad for condoms featuring two guys hugging (it's fired up the homophobe brigade) and one about Islam (the Islamophobes are shrieking about it). Supporting boycotts and saying that Israel is carrying out apartheid are not bigoted views...

[shira]

10. The people behind the ad based their bullshit on lunatic ramblings from Richard Falk, for example...

http://honestreporting.com/south-african-watchdog-declares-israel-an-apartheid-state/

So yeah, this is all just hateful bullshit.

[Violet_Crumble]

32. No, if you'd read what you linked to, you'd know that's not the case

The link to the actual ASA ruling was buried in that link you posted.

http://www.asasa.org.za/ResultDetail.aspx?Ruling=5632


If you'd read it, you would have seen that one of the reasons the ASA gave for rejecting the complaints was:

There have been numerous international missions that have observed the situation in Israel and the Occupied Palestinian Territories and have concluded that Israel is in contravention of International Law and is an apartheid state.

It further submitted reports by a UN Special Rapporteur on the Occupied Palestinian Territories as well as a copy of the International Court of Justice concerning the wall in Jerusalem. Further to this it submitted copious academic studies, newspaper articles and cartoons concerning Israel. Affidavits from Professor Uri Davis and former Minister Ronnie Kasrils were also attached.

The expression of the view that Israel is an apartheid state in contravention of international law is based on a sound factual matrix and the connection between apartheid South Africa and Israel has been made numerous times in the South African media. The claim is therefore justified and arguably capable of substantiation through this range of documentary sources.'

The ruling goes on to say:


'It disputed the complainant’s allegation that the reference to Israel being an apartheid state can only be justified by a ruling of an International Court. Clearly, calling for the condemnation of what is happening in a country prior to any official declaration of that kind cannot be held to the requirements of substantiation as set out in the Code. The term “apartheid” is clearly not an exclusively legal term and is recognised as a descriptive term to refer to a situation that exhibits segregation and inequality. It is important to note that the international boycott of South Africa during apartheid and the awareness campaigns initiated were not executed as a result of a determination of an international court, but were efforts by a civil society to raise awareness about the situation in South Africa. The commercial is a similar initiative against the discriminatory policies of Israel, and has the support of Nobel Laureate Archbishop Desmond Tutu.

The commercial does not state that Israel is guilty of the crime of apartheid, but rather draws a comparison between Apartheid South Africa and Israel. At no stage does he expressly allege that Israel is guilty of the crime of apartheid. Mr Randall merely sees similarity in the structural racism, inequality and exclusion that characterised apartheid South Africa and the practices and conditions currently existing in Israel.'

What complaints such as this one show is that there's folk who have little respect for freedom of speech unless it's their own.

[shira]

35. So misleading. The commercial doesn't state Israel is guilty of apartheid but boycott is necessary

...due to the comparison to South Africa.

:shrug:

The ASA alleges racism but within Israel all "races" are guaranteed equality under the law proving that the situation in the territories (which is not mentioned at all in the ad to contrast b/w the territories and Israel proper) is based on nationality, not race. If it were apartheid by race in the territories, then we'd also see apartheid against that same race within Israel. So bullshit...

As the Black student leaders stated, this is all a very dishonest, cynical and hateful ploy that only mollifies the extremists commited to prolonging the conflict.
http://www.jpost.com/International/Article.aspx?id=215811

[Violet_Crumble]

37. Only misleading to those who don't understand the difference...

Saying one thing equals another is not the same as drawing a comparison from one situation to another. For example to say that Israel is an apartheid state would imo be incorrect (though I sure as hell wouldn't try to trample all over everyone else's freedom of speech and try to stop them saying it), but to compare Israeli policy in the West Bank to apartheid is imo correct. Even if the ad had called Israel an apartheid state, this part of the ruling covers it: 'The commercial clearly falls under the Clause 2.4 of the Code as it deals with a subject of controversy, namely the political situation in Israel with respect to the treatment of Palestinian people. Based on this, it cannot be judged on the sections of the Code that relate to misleading claims.'

No, again you've not bothered to read the actual ruling. The ASA doesn't make allegations of racism. What they said was: 'Mr Randall merely sees similarity in the structural racism, inequality and exclusion that characterised apartheid South Africa and the practices and conditions currently existing in Israel.'

Who gives a shit what a bunch of 'pro-Israel' students in the US say? I don't. Since when have they been a higher authority than the UN, Desmond Tutu etc? Does their being 'Black' make you think they're the be all and end all when it comes to what should and shouldn't be said?

[Crunchy Frog]

21. The homophobes are being victimized. They're a demonized minority.

And so are the Islamaphobes. If they don't get their way on ads, it's because they're being persecuted.

At least I'm pretty sure that's the case if you follow certain types of logic.

[Crunchy Frog]

20. Where was the demonization of a minority group?

I'm just not seeing it. Could you point it out to me?

[bemildred]

11. What would they know about Apartheid?

:sarcasm:

[King_David]

12. Probably lots

They also are a lill obsessed with Jews recently.

[bemildred]

13. It sounds to my like they are just doing their job. nt

[azurnoir]

26. Gee I thought the ad was about Israel n/t

[King_David]

29. South African Jewish Board of Deputies

Represents Jews,not Israel.

[Violet_Crumble]

33. The ad wasn't about Jews, it was about Israel n/t

[King_David]

40. South African Jewish Board of Deputies

Jewish Group


Nobody likes uppity Jews

[Violet_Crumble]

41. So yr saying if any complaint by the SAJBD is rejected, it's antisemtism??

Have you bothered to read the complaint and the ruling? It wouldn't have mattered who made the complaint, the result would have been the same.

And yr last line is complete and utter bullshit...

[azurnoir]

34. The complaint was concerning an advert about Israel

the group making the complaint was a Jewish group, however the advert made no mention of any Jewish group unless one equates Israel to Jews, is that the case?

[shira]

36. If the accusation is that Israel practices racial apartheid vs. Palestinians, then who exactly....

...is guilty of apartheid?

Only the Jews.

It's racial, right?

How can the Arabs within Israel be guilty of apartheid against their own Palestinian brothers and sisters?

It's only the Jews.

[Violet_Crumble]

38. Are you trying to say that criticism of Israel is really criticism of Jews??

Criticism of Israeli policy is just that, criticism of Israeli policy. Saying otherwise is ignoring the goddam obvious fact that Israel isn't a homogenous state, that the government represents all Israelis, and makes me wonder why someone making that sort of claim wouldn't also think that criticism of Indonesia for example is it being All About The Muslims...

[shira]

42. Who else besides Jews in Israel is practicing racial apartheid vs. Arabs in the territories?

If it's Israel vs. Palestinians, you're admitting the conflict is b/w nationalities, not races, and this is not apartheid.

So much for the bullshit ASA decision that this is "racial", right?

Can't have your cake and eat it too.

[Violet_Crumble]

44. The state of Israel is engaging in apartheid-style practices in the West Bank, not Jews...

If you'd read the complaint and the ruling, you'd be aware of that. I'm pretty sure the world doesn't operate on what yr personal opinion of what apartheid is and isn't, and I don't see anything bullshitty about the ruling, which I have read and posted excerpts from in this thread...

[azurnoir]

48. But yet in comment #43 time stamped within the same minute as this you state

" So the Arabs within Israel are also guilty of racial apartheid vs. Arabs in the territories?"

was this some 'gottacha' game or what?

[shira]

49. No gotcha game. We all know damned well that a racial apartheid charge vs Israel...

...is a charge against the Jews. No one views Israeli racial apartheid as anything OTHER than Jews victimizing Arabs.

It's as bigoted as claiming Zionism is racism, especially given it's a malicious lie.

[azurnoir]

50. ah but you just admitted it was a gottcha question even as you denied it

but also one I did not fall for

but once again your insistence that criticism of Israel equates only to Jews speaks volumes

[shira]

51. Curses! A nefarious zionist trick you saw right through! Very clever...

I'll have to watch out for you!

:eyes:

[azurnoir]

52. sigh I did not say anything of the sort

for one it wasn't very clever at all IMO

[azurnoir]

39. your answer speaks volumes

"How can the Arabs within Israel be guilty of apartheid against their own Palestinian brothers and sisters?

It's only the Jews."

The "Arabs" are Israeli's too

[shira]

43. So the Arabs within Israel are also guilty of racial apartheid vs. Arabs in the territories? n/t

[azurnoir]

47. The Arab citizens of Israel are 'guilty' in the same sense that all Israeli's are

'guilty' of the apartheid practices in the West Bank and in the same way that every American is 'guilty of the civilian deaths in Iraq, Pakistan, and Afghanistan.

your posts here speak volumes to the them and us mentality that seems to exist among some Israeli's and Israels support base elsewhere

thanks for demonstrating that for us

[oberliner]

14. What would they know about Israel?

I think that's the more pertinent question.

Have any of the folks who made this decision, for instance, ever been there?

[bemildred]

15. The two nations have an long and sometimes intimate association. nt

[oberliner]

16. The ASA is not a nation

I am not sure under what circumstances any of its membership would have traveled to Israel or acquired any such insights.

[bemildred]

17. Indeed, good eye.

:sarcasm:

[Crunchy Frog]

45. I used to protest Apartheid in South Africa

and I'd never even been there.

What does that make me?

[oberliner]

46. Apartheid in South Africa was a system of legal racial segregation

I do not believe this was even in dispute by the people engaging in the practice.

[shira]

18. Well maybe they shouldn't have admitted they use the bozo Richard Falk as a helpful resource...

...proving apartheid exists in Israel.

:eyes:

That kinda blows up any credibility they may have.

[bemildred]

19. I don't see how admitting they used Falk proves "apartheid exists in Israel".

Could you elaborate on that?

[shira]

22. They should have never said they use 911 truther Richard Falk as a resource...

See the link in #10 above.

Means they, like him, have zero credibility.

[bemildred]

23. So you are saying if they listen to anybody you don't like, that destroys all of their credibility?

I had no idea you held such power. Remind me to watch my step.

But anyway, I still don't see how that proves that "apartheid exists in Israel", like you said. I'm still waiting there.

[shira]

24. Falk is a quack but you're welcome to take him seriously WRT his views on Israeli apartheid. n/t

[bemildred]

25. Well, this has been fun, but it doesn't really go anywhere, so I'll toddle along. nt

[shira]

27. X

[shira]

28. From April '11: Black student leaders slam 'apartheid' characterization

NEW YORK – African-American student leaders from a variety of historically black colleges and universities took out full page ads in numerous American college newspapers Thursday, displaying an “Open Letter to Students for Justice in Palestine (SJP),” to convey that they were offended by SJP’s use of the term “apartheid” at recent Israel Apartheid Week events at campuses across the country.

.....

“The use of the word ‘apartheid’ by Students for Justice in Palestine (SJP) in its characterization of Israel is patently false and deeply offensive to all who feel a connection to the state of Israel,” the letter reads. “Your organization’s campaign against Israel is spreading misinformation about its policies, fostering bias in the media and jeopardizing prospects for a timely resolution of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Such irresponsibility is a blemish on your efforts.”

The letter continues to state that “

laying the ‘apartheid card’ is a calculated attempt to conjure up images associated with the racist South African regimes of the 20th century,” and calls the strategy “as transparent as it is base.”

“Beyond that, it is highly objectionable to those who know the truth about the Israelis’ record on human rights and how it so clearly contrasts with South Africa’s,” the letter reads, noting that under apartheid, black South Africans had no rights in a country in which they were the majority of the population.

http://www.jpost.com/International/Article.aspx?id=215811