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pistoff democrat Donating Member (733 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-02-03 10:07 AM
Original message
Tales of Tel Aviv
Me, Yosi Mendelevich, I was considered to be a very protective father. But there was a hole in my plan, I let my son take buses. I'm going to show you everything that happened on the last day of my son Yuval's life which was March 5 2003, when he was 13 years old, so you will understand the banality of the atrocity. At 6.45am I woke him up, he hugged me and said, 'Give me some strength for the morning', so I hugged him strongly. He got up, he washed his face, brushed his teeth, ate Cocoa Pops and milk for breakfast and put a cheese sandwich into his schoolbag for his lunch.

While he was waking up, his murderer, Mohammed Kawasma, was travelling back from Hebron, where he had gone to pick up the bomb, through Abu Dis where they are now building the fence, but there was no fence there then and no one stopped him at the checkpoint. Around 11am, when Yuval was finishing maths, the murderer was arriving here in Haifa. He decided to wait until 2pm when all the kids from school were going home and the buses were more crowded. At 2.05pm, Yuval got on the 37 bus here, at the stop by his school, sat down in the fifth row from the back, on the right, directly behind the murderer, and at 2.07pm the bus started moving.

cut

When the phone went dead, I thought it was only a disturbance in the cellular system and I didn't get suspicious. Then I got a call from a friend who said, "How is Yuval?" I said, "Why?" He said, "You heard there was a suicide bomb in Moriah Avenue?" I was shivering, a cold sweat was on my skin. I drove down the street and saw the bus. The other bodies were on the road in body bags but Yuval was still there, under a blanket, too burnt to be identified. His left arm with the stopped watch was blown off from his body and was hanging out of the window on the other side of the bus. The air smelled of scorched flesh and I thought of Yuval's great-grandparents who were wiped from the earth in Poland in 1941. That was their holocaust, this is his. Moriah, by the way, is the name of the mountain where God tested Abraham to sacrifice his son Isaac, but no one called from the sky to save my boy.

Now I want to show you the wall here behind the bus stop, where the blood of our children was spilled. Seventeen people were massacred that day, a Druze, a Muslim Arab, a girl of the Bahai faith. Exactly two weeks before Yuval was murdered he participated in a co-existence project in an Arab village. This was binational Haifa. My barber, our butcher, our grocer are all Arab. Seven thousand people came to our house in the days of mourning, but no Arabs came. That is a devastating issue for me. Meanwhile, in Abu Dis, the family of Mohammed Kawasma were holding three days of celebration. He was not a refugee, his house was not demolished. He was a computer student in the Islamic Polytechnic of Hebron. Nothing brought him to that deed but religious ideology.

cut


http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/comment/0,10551,1097737,00.html
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pistoff democrat Donating Member (733 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-02-03 10:49 AM
Response to Original message
1. Is it the article title?
Edited on Tue Dec-02-03 10:49 AM by pistoff democrat
I wish it had been something emotional like, "a conversation with a father whose sweet innocent 13-year old son was murdered"...but, you have to work with what they give you.

Doesn't anybody care that children get blown to bits because they have the aggressivity to actually board a bus?

Leaving the gratuitous slings and arrows which surely will eventually come; doesn't anybody care at all?
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Jim Sagle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-02-03 10:54 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. I care. But your overall point is quite timely.
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JohnLocke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-02-03 06:23 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. So tragic
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pistoff democrat Donating Member (733 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-02-03 06:28 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Yes, I feel all warm & fuzzy inside
just looking at all the expressions of humanity from the I/P group.
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Jim Sagle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-02-03 06:30 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. It's Mr Rodgers' neighborhood. (CNN's Walter Rodgers, that is.)
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pistoff democrat Donating Member (733 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-02-03 06:32 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. LOL
he's back and Team Israel's got him!

:yourock:
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dai Donating Member (129 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-03 04:18 PM
Response to Reply #1
39. The article title is...
...very good, IMHO. It shows that, as horrific as these stories are, it is an every day occurrence. On closer inspection, the Guardian title should result in greater emotional response than the alternate title you have suggested.
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Muddleoftheroad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-02-03 08:34 PM
Response to Original message
7. This is thoroughly depressing
Between this and the other thread about whether it will ever end, I feel like I am watching the Holocaust all over again and unable to stop it. The other thread makes it clear that there is nothing Israel can do to find peace either. I imagine over time the Israelis will get really, really pissed.
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pistoff democrat Donating Member (733 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-03 04:38 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. I completely agree, Muddle.
It's more than depressing that only a very few of Team Israel took notice of this thread. Actually, I'm glad the others just left it alone because I believe the little boy would have been cast as a Likkud member and that his grieving father deserved it because others have died as well. People seem to have trouble staying on-topic, but we know these feelings have been around as long as the Jews, so nu?

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Violet_Crumble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-03 06:20 AM
Response to Reply #8
12. And why would you believe that?
Actually, I'm glad the others just left it alone because I believe the little boy would have been cast as a Likkud member and that his grieving father deserved it because others have died as well.


Has this happened in the past in this forum? Care to provide some links? If it hasn't happened and you can't dig up some links, then why would you believe something like that, which is a pretty disgusting sort of thing to believe about any victim? No offense, but painting people who don't agree with yr general views in this forum as some sort of monsters is in my opinion the Lazy Person's Way of discussing an issue because it's so much easier to demonise the people who don't agree with you rather than see them as people who hold entirely legitimate and well thought out views that just happen to not be the same as yr own...

Violet...
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bluesoul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-03 06:24 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. Demonizing is the escape gate
for some people. And it has become quite common lately here as well...
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Violet_Crumble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-03 06:33 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. Yep...
I think it's some sort of avoidance mechanism so that people don't really have to confront and critically examine their own beliefs. It's a pretty clumsy tactic that I've seen anti-choicers put to repeated use when they attempt to debate, but luckily it's easy to spot when it pops up around the traps...

Violet...
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bluesoul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-03 04:39 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. The Palestinians should be 20 times
Edited on Wed Dec-03-03 04:39 AM by bluesoul
more pissed considering what is done to them. But all you see just one side of the story...
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-03 04:42 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
bluesoul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-03 04:56 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. I don't hate ANYONE
I don't see how you saw that from my post. I just don't see any understanding for Palestinians and their side of the story from your side. That'a all
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Muddleoftheroad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-03 08:32 AM
Response to Reply #9
16. No, I see both sides of the story
And, as a result, I side with Israel. THAT'S what bothers you.
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bluesoul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-03 08:43 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. It doesn't bother me
Edited on Wed Dec-03-03 08:44 AM by bluesoul
There are many around the world that don't...
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Gimel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-03 07:07 AM
Response to Original message
15. I was away
Sorry, pistoff, I was at a wedding last night. The article title did not really say much to me, wo I left it alone. Now that severl have responded, I took a look.

It is a personal account of a tragedy no one wishes to happen to his own family. This bombing took place not far from where I live, and I traveled that route on a weekly basis. It was more than 6 months ago since the bombing of bus route 37. We've experienced three bus bombings and the Haifa Maxim's cafe bombing since then. Each death a tragedy of the conflict. What more is there to say?
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pistoff democrat Donating Member (733 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-03 10:21 AM
Response to Reply #15
22. With what I can only imagine
Edited on Wed Dec-03-03 10:23 AM by pistoff democrat
it took for you to go to a wedding and return in one piece, I am humbled at your apology.

As an American Jew, I still find each suicide bombing mind-numbingly horrible. I completely understand how that wouldn't be the case for you.

:pals:
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drdon326 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-03 09:06 AM
Response to Original message
18. Re-victimize
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bluesoul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-03 09:13 AM
Response to Reply #18
19. More from the fine folks
Edited on Wed Dec-03-03 09:14 AM by bluesoul
at Fox&Corkum. Where are the cartoons when Palestinian civilians get shred to pieces by an IDF rocket or bomb. Oh I know they're just Arabs and Muslims, they don't count...
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Gimel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-03 09:39 AM
Response to Reply #19
20. The cartoons?
You mean there are cartoons of Israelis getting blown away? That's disgusting.
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bluesoul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-03 09:45 AM
Response to Reply #20
21. Excuse me?
The link that Drdon gave was a cartoon/sketch and I really don't know why you feel my comment is disgusting. That is after all what Fox&Corkum print along with the comments. I only asked about the Palestinians being killed that does not deserve their attention (naturally because they are anti-Muslim as their friends LGF). What you did was a classic spin trying to demonize me. Please apologise...
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pistoff democrat Donating Member (733 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-03 10:27 AM
Response to Reply #21
23. No need for apologies...
The cartoon Don linked to showed no one being killed.

I don't go to these sites, RW or LW; but, I would imagine the blowing up of Jews is not too difficult to locate.

If you're not into cartoons, try the Daniel Pearl beheading.
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bluesoul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-03 10:31 AM
Response to Reply #23
24. PD, are we looking at the same sketch?
A boy and a man (or woman not sure since facing towards the floor) are lying dead in blood in that particular one from C&F that DrDon linked..
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pistoff democrat Donating Member (733 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-03 10:41 AM
Response to Reply #24
28. You are correct, however,
the dead are Israelis for whom the bigwigs are pointing fingers over how to blame Israel herself.
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edzontar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-03 10:39 AM
Response to Reply #23
27. The cartoon slanders the UN and Pres. Carter..
Edited on Wed Dec-03-03 10:39 AM by edzontar
As apologists for terrorism.

I would say that apologies are VERY MUCH in order!!!
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pistoff democrat Donating Member (733 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-03 10:44 AM
Response to Reply #27
29. THAT'S President Carter?
Well, I will give R/W sites this - no-talent cartoonists!

However, I do agree that apologies for terrorism are indeed very much in order.
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edzontar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-03 10:47 AM
Response to Reply #29
30. It is not a good likeness, but resembles other charicatures..
And the events being attacked are clearly the recent speeches by Annan (left, labeled UN) and Carter (right, unlabeled) at the Geneva Accords.
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Gimel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-03 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #21
36. Your spin
I object to the charactarization also of Palestinians getting shredded. That's obscene as well. To assume that deaths of innocent Palestinians is done by design is something you may want to reconsider.
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Noon_Blue_Apples Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-03 03:44 PM
Response to Reply #36
38. So you consider the cartoon and its use here obscene?

?

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Noon_Blue_Apples Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-03 03:42 PM
Response to Reply #19
37. Lets honor this loss with a racist right wing cartoon

tacky/classless
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edzontar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-03 10:38 AM
Response to Reply #18
26. In this cartoon--the guy on the right is supposed to be Pres. CARTER!!!
So, in addition to beng RACIST, this cartoon is also a slander directed againts an ELECTED, Democratic, American president who has devoted his life to peace, humanity, and democracy.

You should be ashamed of yourself for posting this on a progressive, Democratic forum.
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drdon326 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-03 11:44 AM
Response to Reply #26
31. Yo , ed...
damn... i thought it was really good.
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edzontar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-03 01:21 PM
Response to Reply #31
32. So do you, too, hate President Carter..
And consider him a party to murder?
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drdon326 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-03 01:24 PM
Response to Reply #32
33. Noooo....
i just think his speech re-victimized israel.
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edzontar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-03 01:29 PM
Response to Reply #33
34. I think his speech was heroic and true....
And cannot believe that anyone on a progressive board would EVER post, let alone endorse, a hateful, racist cartoon such as the one you have so thoughtfully "shared" with us,

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edzontar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-03 10:34 AM
Response to Original message
25. The event you describe is a horrific crime and a tragedy...
It makes me angry, frustrated, and sick.

We can only hope that peace will someday come and that tragedies like this will one day be a thing of the past.

I fear it will take a long time. Just look at what is happening in my ancestral land of Ireland.

As to the matter of responding: I did not log on till this morning. And as you noted, the thread title is not all that revealing as to the contents.

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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-03-03 01:50 PM
Response to Original message
35. My heart goes out to this man.
What a loss. I cannot imagine how I would
deal with it if I lost my son. Some wounds
never heal.
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