Self-Appointed Israeli/Palestinian Negotiators Offer Peace Plan

[Dover]

A lesson in how to work around chronic political stalemates......


Self-Appointed Israeli and Palestinian Negotiators Offer a Plan for Middle East Peace

By ELAINE SCIOLINO

Published: December 2, 2003


GENEVA, Dec. 1 — To prove that Middle East peacemaking is possible, self-appointed Israeli and Palestinian negotiators came together on Monday to celebrate a sweeping shadow agreement that would create a Palestinian state and resolve other contentious issues that have thwarted peace negotiators over the years.

The participants recognized the tentativeness of the document, which they called the Geneva Accord. But the air of unreality surrounding the event contrasted with the painfully real pleas from the Israeli and Palestinian negotiators to their leaders to talk to each other once again about a permanent solution.

In a sense, the pact was as much a rebuke of the hard-line policies of the Israeli prime minister, Ariel Sharon, as it was a blueprint for a Middle East peace agreement. But it was welcomed as a good starting point for negotiations.

"The document is virtual, but all of us are real, and our heartbeats are real," Yossi Beilin, a former Israeli justice minister and head of the Israeli side, said in a speech to an audience that included more than 300 Israelis and Palestinians. "We are saying to the world: `Don't believe those who tell you that our conflict is unsolvable. Don't try to help us manage the conflict. Help us to end it.' "......cont'd >

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/12/02/international/europe/02PEAC.html

[On the Road]

1. This is The Only Way Things Get Done

That plan can act as a model when both leaderships get serious. Eventually there will be an agreement on a two-state solution based primarily on the 1967 borders.

[sistersofmercy]

2. I have always believed that it would take the moderates on both sides

to come together to end the conflict. Isn't Sharon coming on glued about this? I believe he made some reference that such actions are treasonous. It is now time for the extremist on both sides to step aside. I sincerely hope that this accord sticks and brings long overdue peace to both. I can't help but think of Rabin, may he rest in peace.

[Dover]

3. I think Sharon is giving it lip service even as he continues to

accelerate the bombing and raids and land seizures.

The same with Bush...saying we'll turn over the reins to Iraqis by June....all the while increasing attacks on Iraqis.

[forgethell]

5. first

the moderates must come to power. I'm not holding my breath.

[durutti]

4. My Thoughts on Geneva

I have three big problems with Geneva:

1. I have some problems with the way Jerusalem is divided up.

2. Although I support the principal of trading land for land, I believe that it would be best to keep as close to the 1967 borders as possible. I don't like how the plan keeps the settlements in place.

3. It pretty much ignores the refugee issue.

That said, the plan is still much better than anything that has been offered in the past. I'm skeptical about its implementation, however.

[papau]

6. "refugee issue" is settled with no Right of R in compromise to get a State

The minor land adjustments were "agreed to at Taba" (where nothing was agreed to unless all was agreed to - I know) and are closs to the "border"

The division of Jerusalem gives PA the Temple mount - all of it!!! - I do not know how they will sell that idea in Israel - but I guarantee that a change giving Israel the Temple Mount and adjusting the borders in Jerusalem elsewhere in the PA's favor in whatever (resonable as to touching areas of course) way you'd like would be an easy change to sell Israel.

And letting the Jewish state of Israel remain a Jewish state - meaning no flooding it with "refugee" - is all that Israel really gets out of the agreement. I do not know where the money will come from to pay the compensation to those "refugees" not allowed to kick the current folks living in Israel out, but that is in the agreement. Given that 1948 was 55 years ago, 90% of the "refugees" that will be compensated were not alive in 48.

Indeed this is a complete, and IMHO more than fair to the PA, settlement - nothing needs to be done to the document other than have Israel and the PA sign it, with security forces provided by the UN to keep hot headed settlers and hot headed Hamas folks from trying to destroy the peace.

[BlackFrancis]

7. oh, damn..

Is there no sense of irony there at all? Any Jew anywhere in the world can excersise right of return because maybe that's where their ancestors were a thousand or two thousand years or somewhere in the middle depending on your taste in archaeologists but if you were born in a refugee camp because your father or his father wasn't the right religion and got drove off with a gun that's just no big deal?

[papau]

8. sense of irony? in the last 300,000 years there was no right of return -

you were lucky if you were not eaten - and tradition had most males killed on the losing side - ending the kids of refugee problem - which is the population we are talking about now.

Indeed the Israeli "right of return" is extremely unusual and has more to do with Jews being tossed out or killed elsewhere on this earth than it does with archaeologists.

And indeed getting driven off - or having your father driven off - by someone with a gun - is NO BIG DEAL 55 YEARS LATER.

I do not know of a family in the region that does not have a history of a family member that has not been so treated - and never with a right of return.

Indeed 4 generations back 8 of 9 brothers in part of my family died fighting for a right of return against folks with better guns than they had. The successfull folks in my family moved on - oh they hated - I was taught to hate over 40 tribes - and can tell you of incursions by armed evil types that raped and killed a relative - incursions that are very hard to find in history because they were so common place. And please - I am not saying this was good. What I am saying is that peace will come only when you are ready to move on.

The Greeks became indep of the Turks in major areas of Greece (minor areas were never controlled by the Turks) around 1825-30. And fought on to the 1920 Ottoman defeat in WW1 - and then were prevented by the Brits from taking back Instanbul - and then the Greeks in the former Ottoman controlled mid-east were tossed from their homes and told to look for a life in other countries - most went to Greece. And Hate of the Turks is just now getting turned down from being on "high".

It will take time for the Palestinians and Israelis to get along - but the first step is land for both peace and no right of return that destroys Israel as a Jewish state - indeed there will be war forever if right of return is demanded.

[BlackFrancis]

9. who else just got over it?

Jews came back after a thousand or so years still pissed off, who would they be to preach at Palestinians about how they should just make the best of it somewhere else?

[papau]

10. Jews never left the area - so what is "came back pissed"

I agree the settlers have a bad attitude - and they - like the Hamas "never" folk - need to be ignored so the rest of us can get on with our lives.

As to "who else just got over it?" I recommend the British Museum's Timeline of History book (years ago it was about $150 - but I suspect it costs less now). There you will see the migrations - indeed the famous answer to the question of why the Huns and others came west and took over other folk’s lands is - there were folks taking over their land behind them.

So as to "who else just got over it?" - well - just about everyone.

peace ...

:-)