Israeli military training settlers ahead of U.N. vote

[bemildred]

JERUSALEM (JTA) -- The Israeli military is training settler security squads, and will arm them with tear gas and stun grenades, ahead of the Palestinian statehood vote at the United Nations, Haaretz reported.

The Israel Defense Forces are preparing for Operation Summer Seed, to get the military ready for possible Palestinian mass protest and violence in the wake of the end of September vote at the United Nations General Assembly, according to Haaretz, citing a document obtained by the daily newspaper.

The document also showed that the IDF has determined a red line for each Jewish settlement, which when crossed indicates when soldiers will be ordered to shoot at the feet of Palestinian protesters, Haaretz reported.

The military is anticipating “marches toward main junctions, Israeli communities, and education centers; efforts at damaging symbols of government," according to the document.The military is also preparing for shooting from demonstration participants and terrorist attacks.

http://www.jta.org/news/article/2011/08/30/3089169/israeli-military-training-settlers-ahead-of-un-vote

[Scurrilous]

1. This should turn out well. n/t

[bemildred]

3. I thought evacuating them all to safety would be better.

I continue to be amazed at the hysterical over-reaction to the prospect of the UN vote.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

4. That will be mixed

Some will be evacuated, abandoned, or left on their own. Others will be defended by the IDF

[bemildred]

6. I don't follow. What will be mixed, and when?

The vote itself is just talk. If I had to wager, the immediate effect will be to make it harder to pretend the settlements are legal and proper, etc. The result is a propaganda victory for the Palestinians. That's all there is to it, and there is diddle that can be done about it now.

Past experience has shown that evacuating settlers can be in itself a "difficult" undertaking.

I infer that by "Others" you mean various settlements and outposts, not the settlers.

I suppose the fear is that there will be massive Palestinian demos, riots, etc? Like the "Arab Spring"? If so, then I would say:

1.) The government does have a duty to be prepared for such things. Such fears are warranted.
2.) I don't consider such to be inevitable by any means, and the government ought to consider what it might do to make them less likely.
3.) The government looks like a "deer in the headlights" to me, lots of noise and activity, no idea which direction to jump.

[Violet_Crumble]

11. Agreed. Little will change once Palestine becomes a state...

About the only changes will be that Palestinians will have Palestinian passports, and be more at risk of being shot by settlers armed and trained by the IDF...

[Dick Dastardly]

14. Are you kidding a no vote will have disasterous effects for all of humanity.

A palestinian state will become the beacon for all modern societies to follow into the future. You see, eventually a Palestinian state will help put an end to war and poverty. It will align the planets and bring them into universal harmony. Allowing meaningful contact with all forms of life. From extra terrestrials to common household pets. It will be the foundation for our whole society. Plus they have excellent dance music.

[King_David]

15. Dance Music

But dancing is illegal in Gaza ;)

[Dick Dastardly]

17. This video was a big hit. Its got a real catchy beat.

Sheikh Terra and the Soul Salah Crew

Digihad

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tolYsaqkpg



http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2004/feb/08/arts.politics

[Scurrilous]

18. Ah, yes.

Mockery. :thumbsup:

[Violet_Crumble]

20. And piss poor mockery at that n/t

[King_David]

19. I got a feeling Hamas would exempt that from their Dancing Ban

From The Times October 7, 2005

No dancing and no gays if Hamas gets its wayBy Stephen Farrell

A VISION of an Islamic society that bans mixed dancing and sternly disapproves of homosexuality has been given by Mahmoud Zahar, the most senior leader of Hamas in Gaza.
After controversies when a Hamas-led council halted a dance festival and Islamist gunmen stopped a rap band performing in Gaza, Dr Zahar defended the enforcement of a strict interpretation of Islam.

“A man holds a woman by the hand and dances with her in front of everyone. Does that serve the national interest?” Dr Zahar said on the Arabic website Elaph. “If so, why have the phenomena of corruption and prostitution become pervasive in recent years?”



http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article575744.ece

[eyl]

16. I believe the PA already issues its own passports

The thing is, that it seems to me the Palestinians are trying to have their cake and eat it too. Despite how it's portrayed, the UN vote will not create a Palestinian state, any more than Israel was founded on November 29, 1947. In order to form a state, the Palestinians need to declare one (and the 1988 declaration doesn't count), and other coutnriese have to accept it - a UN vote is, stricly speaking, irrelevant.

However, since the world (or at least the media) seems to be treating this vote as if it will create a Palestinian state, I suspect the Palestinian leadership sees it as having the international community do the heavy lifting for them - they can gain the recognition of a state but can always disavow being a state if they find it diplomatically inconvenient, or deal with the politicsc, internal and international (espacially vis-a-vis Israel) of declaring said state. Also, they will effectively gain the status of a state without any of the pesky obligations which come with that status.

[Violet_Crumble]

21. Isn't the UN vote going to be based on a declaration from the Palestinians?

I thought that was how it was going to work. They declare it, and based on that the General Assembly then votes on giving recognition. That vote is what gives legitimacy to the new state.

I'm not sure how any new state that's been recognised in the UN could step back and go 'hold on, we're not a state!' when it suits them. While there's the problem of Israel occupying the state, and the US certain to veto any Security Council vote on full membership to the UN, they don't affect the legitimacy of the new state...

[eyl]

23. Not as far as I know

However, I'm not sure the UN "recognizing" a Palestinian state means anything even if they do declare it - UNGA resolutions do not have any standing in international law. What matters is recognition by individual states.

[dipsydoodle]

2. Charming

NOT :(

[ProgressiveProfessor]

5. Every Israeli already has military training

Depending on how well armed they are, this could well be a blood bath

[Exilednight]

27. Not necessarily. Many Israeli settlers are Haredi, and can be, and often

choose to be, exempt from military service. Then there are people like myself who gained Israeli citizenship after I married my wife who was an Israeli citizen under right of return. Those that choose right of return citizenship are often older and are thus exempt from serving the Israeli military, and they are, also, a growing part of the settlements.

I would reasonably guess that less than half of all settlers have had any military training. I would also not underestimate the Palestinians.

[King_David]

29. What rubbish, you just made that shit up !

Read about this settler community in the Golan.

They are NOT older.

They are NOT haredi.

They are NOT exempt.

You made that shit up....

http://www.nbn.org.il/communities/template/community/66

[Alamuti Lotus]

7. training the colonists to punish the Palestinians if their vote goes the 'wrong' way?

[Scurrilous]

8. Attack dogs of the West Bank

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pedWCz79AB4

[Fantastic Anarchist]

9. This will result in dead protesters ...

And the cycle will begin anew ... as always.

[azurnoir]

10. so apparently the M-16's the settlers bandish aren't enough?

but t does make even more obvious that Israel has no intention of 'giving up' any of it's colonies because the same settlers that Israel is arming will turn those arms on IDF if it attempts to force them to give up their relatively cheap comfortable lifestyle

[henank]

12. So much nonsene in such a small comment

in so few word. Quite amazing.

[Violet_Crumble]

13. That's an apt self-description of the post I'm replying to...

It only consisted of two short sentences, yet one was mangled so badly I thought it had been written by Alan Jones...

[azurnoir]

22. it's nonsense that the Israeli citizens living in the OPT carry M-16's

it's nonsense that the Israeli's living in the OPT have been known to attack IDF for attempting to remove them? the are nonsensical 'fairy tales'?

Do tell

[henank]

28. Yes. It's nonsense.

The only settlers carrying M16s are the security details. Name me one incident where settlers attacked the IDF with guns.

[bemildred]

24. Well, the OP is about "non-lethal" stuff and shooting at their feet, etc.

So I interpreted that as meaning this is part of the propaganda war, theatrical violence, not about real war or real violence. If the settlers kill a bunch of protestors, a lot of noise will be made over that, and right before the UN vote that would not help at all.

[azurnoir]

25. there was no mention of killing in my comment that is what the is apparently being extrapolated thou

however the 'settlers' have attacked IDF in the past and the weapons regardless of their 'lethal intent' could easily be turned on IDF as well as Palestinians

[bemildred]

26. Yeah, I know that, I'm just saying this doesn't appear to be about more lethal firepower.

Hence the automatic weapons are presumably still "enough" in that department. It may well be that your observation about alternative uses for such weapons is part of why tbe IDF might not want to enhance their capabilities, but I think it's more about not killing too many Palestinians right now.

[Scurrilous]

30. Settler security chief: September infiltrators will be shot

IDF urged to clarify "open-fire" regulations during expected protests ahead of PA UN state bid.

<snip>

"Palestinians who try to force their way into West Bank settlements during the mass protests in favor of statehood anticipated for September 20 “will be shot,” chief settler security officer Shlomo Vaknin told The Jerusalem Post on Thursday.

The protests are expected to accompany the Palestinian unilateral bid for recognition of statehood at the United Nations."

http://www.jpost.com/DiplomacyAndPolitics/Article.aspx?id=237272

[azurnoir]

31. looks as if more than legs will be shot at n/t

[Scurrilous]

32. French JDL recruiting Jews with military experience to 'defend' Israeli settlements

<snip>

"An extreme right-wing Jewish group in France is recruiting Jews with military experience for a solidarity mission to Israel in order to help “defend” Jewish settlements in the West Bank from Palestinian protesters who are expected to march toward some of them on or around September 20.

The organization that put out the call for militant Jews is the French branch of the Jewish Defense League, or Kach, an organization established by Meir Kahane in the late 1960s and banned in the United States and Israel, but tolerated in France.

According to a spokesman for La Ligue de Defense Juive, the mission will take place between the 19th and 25th of September and will be made up of five groups of eleven people each, who will take “positions” in five different West Bank settlements. All expenses for the participants have been paid for by French donors that the group declined to identify."

<snip>

"In the U.S., the JDL is considered to be a violent, racist and extremist organization, and is on the FBI’s list of terrorist groups. Similarly, in Israel, the JDL’s sister movement Kach, as well as its offshoot Kahane Lives – whose stated goals included the violent expulsion of Arabs from the country-- were both outlawed in 1994, on the grounds that they were terror organizations, and as such, a threat to state security.

Over the years, LDJ has participated in a number of demonstrations in France, some of them violent. The group has protested a speaking event of an author known for anti-Israel views, a performance of a well known comic critical of Israel, a photography exhibit showing pictures of victims of war in Gaza, and the offices of various news organizations that the group believes to be biased against Israel."

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/french-jdl-recruiting-jews-with-military-experience-to-defend-israeli-settlements-1.383822