Turkey to raise Israel's blockade at ICJ next week

[bemildred]

(Reuters) - Turkey said Saturday that it would apply next week for an investigation by the International Court of Justice into the legality of Israel's naval blockade of the Palestinian enclave of Gaza.

Speaking to Turkish state-run television during a gathering of European foreign ministers in Poland, Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoglu also reiterated Turkey's support for efforts to win recognition for a Palestinian state through the United Nations.

Friday, Turkey expelled Israel's ambassador and froze military agreements with Israel after a U.N. report on the killing of nine Turks during an Israeli raid on a Gaza-bound ship a year ago failed to trigger an apology from the Jewish state.

Aside from demanding an apology, and compensation for families, Turkey also insists Israel ends the blockade of Palestinians living in Gaza.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/09/03/us-turkey-israel-idUSTRE7821DQ20110903

[Harmony Blue]

1. Apparently Turkey will not let this incident go

so I wonder what Israel will choose to do going forward.

[bemildred]

2. We seem to have a pissing contest. nt

[shira]

5. Pissing contest, how? Israel has already expressed regret and offered compensation. n/t

[bemildred]

6. Slow day?

Or are you really trying to assert that Israel and Turkey are not presently having a dispute in which they are both being intransigent about their positions? And don't tell me that Israel is being reasonable and Turkey is not, or something like that, the point is that they DO disagree vehemently, and have been at it a while, and that is what makes it a "pissing contest", egos are involved, testosterone and adrenalin are flowing.

One needs to be clear about the distinctions among observation, explanation, and justification. Observation observes some matter of fact, i.e. "Turkey and Israel seem to be having a pissing contest". Explanation provides an etiology for some thing or event, a theory or process by which something exists or occurs, i.e. "the pissing contest started with the flotilla debacle last year and has become steadily worse since neither seems willing or able to agree on a compromise". Justification explains why asserts that something is moral, ethical, or proper to exist or be done: "Turkey is right and Israel is wrong and should apologize to Turkey".

Now, when I said there was a pissing contest, I was making an observation, not an explanation or a justification.

[shira]

10. Threats are aimed only in one direction. n/t

[bemildred]

12. True, one ordinarily does not threaten oneself.

Although Bibi and his foriegn minister in particular seem to get confused about that too.



Nobody move or the bunny gets it!

[shira]

15. Erdogan's opposition: 'Erdogan painted himself into a corner'

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4117626,00.html

It'd be nice if reason and rationality prevailed.

At least Hamas agrees with Erdogan's position....

:eyes:

Erdogan makes Avigdor Lieberman seem more reasonable in comparison. As bad as he is, I can't imagine Lieberman provoking Turkey and escalating the situation like Erdogan is doing.

[Violet_Crumble]

3. 'Israel hopes to overcome crisis with Turkey, but won't apologize for Gaza flotilla raid'

Prime Minister Netanyahu addressed the ongoing crisis with Turkey on Sunday, saying he "hopes a way will be found to overcome the differences with Turkey," and adding that "we do not want a further downgrading of the relations."

Speaking at the weekly government meeting, Netanyahu added that the UN-commissioned Palmer report regarding the Israel Defense Forces' 2010 raid on a Gaza-bound flotilla released over the weekend confirms what Israel knew from the beginning:

"Israel has a right to defend itself," he said. "We do not need to apologize for weapons smuggling by Hamas, and we do not need to apologize for working to defend our children, our citizens and our cities."

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/israel-hopes-to-overcome-crisis-with-turkey-but-won-t-apologize-for-gaza-flotilla-raid-1.382467

Apologising for killing nine Turkish citizens is seen as apologising 'for working to defend our children, our citizens and our cities."?

[bemildred]

7. 'Deer in the headlights hopes to avoid oncoming truck, but won't give up right to stand in road'

Brings to mind this piece:

Sir David Hare:"We have a generation of leaders who don't have the faintest idea what they're doing"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x624970

[Violet_Crumble]

8. That's really good!

Got it in one with this bit: 'Politics is now nothing more than people saying hopeful things with their fingers crossed.'

[bemildred]

9. Precisely. nt

[shira]

11. If you ignore relations b/w Turkey/Israel going sour since early 2009, you'd have a point.

As it is, Turkey is making it clear it supports a terrorist entity in Gaza.

Israel would have to be insane to cave in.

[bemildred]

13. Well, I trace it back to the Iraq invasion and occupation, which Turkey objected to vehemently.

It was at that point that the alienation and disaffection started to creep in. But I see it through the lens of US-Turkish relations, which Bush botched badly.

[shira]

14. So an apology wouldn't do much except help Turkey save face / humiliate Israel. n/t

[bemildred]

16. See, that is why it's better to avoid these situations.

Once things get to this point, they become very difficult to resolve on a friendly basis. It gets harder and harder to get tbe old magic back.

[shira]

17. How could it have reasonably been avoided? n/t

[bemildred]

18. I doubt that we would agree as to what is "reasonable".

I have other things to do today, nice chatting with you.

[shira]

19. Do you think Turkey calling for an Israeli apology, compensation AND lifting the blockade...

...was a reasonable request? I'd say the inclusion of lifting the blockade makes it obvious Turkey is not at all interested in mending relations.

[Violet_Crumble]

4. World will likely support Turkey’s moves against Israel

Supporting legal actions against Israel by families of the raid victims in Turkish and international courts, and appealing to International Court of Justice against the blockade of Gaza could have far-reaching effects.

By Zvi Bar'el

The expulsion of Israel's ambassador from Ankara and downgrading of diplomatic ties to the level of second secretary could turn out to be the lightest of the sanctions Turkey intends to impose on Israel. Supporting legal actions against Israel by families of the victims of the 2010 naval commando raid of the Mavi Marmara, in both Turkish and international courts, and appealing to the International Court of Justice against the blockade of the Gaza Strip could prove to be much more powerful. The former could affect the foreign travel plans of Israeli officers and decision makers, while the latter would move the Gaza issue from the local arena, where Israel maintains a relative advantage, to the international stage, which has not as yet interfered in Israeli policy vis-a-vis Gaza.

Turkey is judged likely to gain international support for its actions against Israel, in light of its climb in status in the global community in recent weeks. Contributing to Ankara's rising star are its harsh criticism of the Assad regime in Syria, despite heavy pressure from Iran; its cooperation with Libya's provisional government, and its support of the revolution in Egypt. Turkey's consent to the deployment of early warning radar, part of a NATO missile-defense system whose undeclared purpose is to protect Europe from Iranian missiles, is particularly important in this regard. The decision signals Turkish commitment to its alliance with NATO in general and to the United States in particular, deflecting the "accusation" that Ankara is turning away from the West and toward the East - that is, toward Tehran. It is Israel that may have to pay a price for Turkey's growing ties with the West and Ankara's decision to refuse Russia's entreaties to reject the radar deployment on its territory.

But Turkey's demand that Israel apologize, compensate the victims and lift the Gaza blockade is rooted primarily in Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan's obligation to his electorate. It has become a common, uniting, national denominator, an integral part of Turkey's national prestige and its domestic policy.

The concept of national prestige has also trapped Israel, which on at least two occasions rejected a skillfully crafted apology to Turkey due to the objections of Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman and Vice Prime Minister Moshe Ya'alon.

Turkey is not an enemy state. Turkish Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoglu emphasized that Ankara's actions are a result of the policies of the Netanyahu government and are not intended to hurt the Israeli or Jewish people. He called on the Israeli government to amend its mistakes, which he said were not constructive to the remarkable friendship between Turkey and the Jewish people.

http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/world-will-likely-support-turkey-s-moves-against-israel-1.382404