Interview: Refugees will not be citizens of new state

[shira]

BEIRUT: Palestinian refugees will not become citizens of a new Palestinian state, according to Palestine’s ambassador to Lebanon.

From behind a desk topped by a miniature model of Palestine’s hoped-for blue United Nations chair, Ambassador Abdullah Abdullah spoke to The Daily Star Wednesday about Palestine’s upcoming bid for U.N. statehood.

The ambassador unequivocally says that Palestinian refugees would not become citizens of the sought for U.N.-recognized Palestinian state, an issue that has been much discussed. “They are Palestinians, that’s their identity,” he says. “But … they are not automatically citizens.”

This would not only apply to refugees in countries such as Lebanon, Egypt, Syria and Jordan or the other 132 countries where Abdullah says Palestinians reside. Abdullah said that “even Palestinian refugees who are living in (refugee camps) inside the (Palestinian) state, they are still refugees. They will not be considered citizens.”



Read more: http://www.dailystar.com.lb/News/Politics/2011/Sep-15/148791-interview-refugees-will-not-be-citizens-of-new-state.ashx#ixzz1Y4bBrktY
(The Daily Star :: Lebanon News :: http://www.dailystar.com.lb)

[mike_c]

1. this makes sense-- refuges remain citizens of their home country...

...until they can be repatriated. That's international law, if I'm not mistaken. Creation of a Palestinian state and repatriation of refuges forced from their homes in Israel are two entirely different matters.

[shira]

3. Abbas rules out naturalization of Palestinian refugees in Lebanon

Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas was quoted Wednesday as rejecting the naturalization of Palestinian refugees in Lebanon. "We would never accept any settlement that leads to naturalizing Palestinians in Lebanon," Abbas told pan-Arab daily Al-Hayat.

Read more: http://www.dailystar.com.lb/News/Politics/Feb/28/Abbas-rules-out-naturalization-of-Palestinian-refugees-in-Lebanon.ashx#ixzz1Y4dzYPdi


Now to be fair, that was 2008, but here's Abbas just last month - August 2011...

President: We reject the principle of resettlement
http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=ar&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.palpress.co.uk%2Farabic%2F%3Faction%3Ddetail%26id%3D17041

[azurnoir]

8. "To be fair"?!!? well here are 2 exceprts from your link other than your cherry picked sentences

Abbas rules out naturalization of Palestinian refugees in Lebanon
February 28, 2008 12:00 AM
By Mohammed Zaatari

SIDON: Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas was quoted Wednesday as rejecting the naturalization of Palestinian refugees in Lebanon. "We would never accept any settlement that leads to naturalizing Palestinians in Lebanon," Abbas told pan-Arab daily Al-Hayat.

"We would not accept any settlements that would lead to a demographic change in Lebanon. This is totally unacceptable ... We won't accept a settlement that obliges Lebanon to naturalize even one Palestinian. We will find a settlement that satisfies Palestinians in Lebanon and satisfies Lebanon ... I'm sure of this and time will prove it," Abbas added.

Meanwhile, sources told The Daily Star Monday that the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) was "conducting extensive investigations over rumors saying Islamist groups such as Osbat al-Ansar are rebuilding bases inside the Ain al-Hilweh Palestinian refugee camp."

The PLO's Lebanon representative, Abbas Zaki, visited the camp Tuesday "to try to look more into the growing danger of Islamist cells expanding inside the camp," the sources added.

Al-Qaeda-inspired militant group Fatah al-Islam fought the Lebanese Army for 106 days in the Nahr al-Bared Palestinian refugee camp in Northern Lebanon in the summer of 2007, a conflict which reduced the camp to rubble.

Read more: http://www.dailystar.com.lb/News/Politics/Feb/28/Abbas-rules-out-naturalization-of-Palestinian-refugees-in-Lebanon.ashx#ixzz1Y6Boqula
(The Daily Star :: Lebanon News :: http://www.dailystar.com.lb)

and from the second albeit Google translate does a less than admirable job with Arabic sounds to me as though it was agreed that the Palestinians in Lebanon are there on a temporary basis

They agreed, during a breakfast hosted by the Lebanese president in honor of President Mahmoud Abbas and his delegation, on Tuesday evening, that the presence of Palestinian refugees in Lebanon and the existence of temporary and subject to Lebanese law.

President Mahmoud Abbas' The presence of Palestinian refugees in Lebanon and the existence of temporary and subject to Lebanese law, and access to civil rights to live with dignity in Lebanon does not mean at all resettlement, and we reject the principle of resettlement categorically, and we demand the right to return fully to every Palestinian, not springs to mind, we think of resettlement because we know exactly what this word means'.

The sovereignty:''Palestinians Guests temporary are subject to the law and sovereignty of Lebanon and at the head of the Palestinian refugee camps, and we believe that there is no force Palestinians to protect the Palestinians, but we protect Lebanon, and we do not need a weapon here and we want, because we believe that Lebanon is one territory, and the rule of one, and one country, his sovereignty and authority over all Lebanese territory. "

http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=ar&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.palpress.co.uk%2Farabic%2F%3Faction%3Ddetail%26id%3D17041

[shira]

9. Well that makes it okay then. It's real peachy that refugees in Lebanon who wish to become citizens

....should languish without basic human rights there for maybe another 100 years - even after a Palestinian state is established.

With friends like you, they don't need enemies.

[azurnoir]

10. That's not what was said though or do you not understand the word temporary?

you seem to be promoting the idea that Palestinians in now living in diaspora will not be allowed to live inn a Palestinian state that is quite simply not true they will not be automatic citizens they will have to apply just like Jews making aliyah

[shira]

11. The refugees are being used and abused as weapons and you're making excuses for it.

Why do they need the Israelis as their enemies when friends like yourself are arguably worse?

"Temporary" means they stay where they are in Lebanon until...........? Hundreds of thousands and their offspring are in limbo without rights until.....?

An imaginary right of return?

When Elvis comes back?

Shameful.

[hack89]

19. But they are stateless people

they are not allowed to become citizens of the countries they live in.

[shira]

2. Israeli Arab Palestinians cannot be citizens of a future Palestinian state either...

During Abbas' recorded conversation with the Palestinian negotiating team, one of the members asked the president whether he – as a Nazareth-born Arab with Israeli citizenship – would also be accepted as a Palestinian citizen.

Abbas surprised the team by saying that as a refugee himself, his strategic answer was no. It would be preferable to "stay where you are and preserve your community", Abbas told the inquirer, adding: "You don't need a passport to prove you are Palestinian."

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/abbas-deemed-it-illogical-for-israel-to-absorb-5-million-refugees-palestine-papers-show-1.338981

Bader Rock: I am a Palestinian from Nazareth and have Israeli citizenship. Will I be granted Palestinian citizenship in the future state?

AM I understand why you ask this. I am a refugee from Safad. The answer, strategically, is no. You should stay where you, protect your rights are and preserve your community. You don’t need a passport to prove that you are a Palestinian. In 1948 Palestinians in Israel were 138,000 and now above a million. That homeland is your homeland. You must remain there and this does not detract whatsoever from the fact that you are Arabs and Palestinians. We do not want you to participate in any intifadas though. Raise two banners. Equality and an independent state for your brothers in the occupied territory.

http://www.ajtransparency.com/en/node/4507


In other words, Palestinian leadership says all Palestinians outside the OPT can go to hell and eat shit while his pro-Palestinian, anti-Israel drones shrug.


:eyes:

[provis99]

4. no, he's saying Israeli Palestinians should secede from Israel.

A sneaky way of saying the Jews should get out of Israel, since it is Palestinian territory.

[shaayecanaan]

5. In the same way that Jews are not automatically citizens of Israel...

they have to actually apply for Israeli citizenship.

If everyone of Palestinian descent automatically received Palestinian citizenship I imagine it would cause problems for those Palestinians living in countries where obtaining a second citizenship will void your existing one - eg Greece, Japan, Ukraine and many ex-CIS countries.

So, yet another Fox-News style trumped-up non-story.

[King_David]

6. You can believe that story that you just made up

if that helps you .

[shira]

7. Not even refugees in Gaza or the W.Bank would become citizens of a future Palestine.

"Even Palestinian refugees who are living in (refugee camps) inside the (Palestinian) state, they are still refugees. They will not be considered citizens."

====================

That's some cold heartless shit.

They're stateless refugees WITHIN a future Palestinian lacking basic human rights who the PA is supposed to represent and work for. What's the point of their own state if that state doesn't automatically give them the 'freedom' they all say they've been seeking for over 60 years?

The PA and Hamas are hellbent on RoR and only view the refugees as weapons against Israel, not oppressed people deserving of their own state.

That's beyond fucked up.

[shira]

12. Shaay, the Ambassador linked refugees to RoR. They won't be accepted without RoR.

Israel will never agree to it.

The PA won't cut a deal without it.

Therefore, the refugees - even ones within a future Palestinian state - will remain in camps. Perhaps for another 63 years. Not one of them will be accepted into Palestine b/c they must be used as weapons to flood Israel. The Ambassador gave RoR as the main reason these people will not be accepted as citizens. He didn't say they could simply apply, regardless whether RoR happens.

Abdullah said that the new Palestinian state would “absolutely not” be issuing Palestinian passports to refugees.

Neither this definitional status nor U.N. statehood, Abdullah says, would affect the eventual return of refugees to Palestine. “How the issue of the right of return will be solved I don’t know, it’s too early to say, but it is a sacred right that has to be dealt with and solved with the acceptance of all.” He says statehood “will never affect the right of return for Palestinian refugees.”

The right of return that Abdullah says is to be negotiated would not only apply to those Palestinians whose origins are within the 1967 borders of the state, he adds. “The state is the 1967 borders, but the refugees are not only from the 1967 borders. The refugees are from all over Palestine. When we have a state accepted as a member of the United Nations, this is not the end of the conflict. This is not a solution to the conflict. This is only a new framework that will change the rules of the game.”

The only way to read that is refugees will remain where they are until RoR is negotiated.

And that will never happen.

Even if Abbas agrees to a set number like 200,000 it has to be agreed by all. That's an insult to most Palestinians, especially Hamas, Islamic Jihad, and parts of Fatah. They expect full RoR. Al Jazeera and the Guardian would blast Abbas for being a sellout if he accepted that. Moreso, Hamas.

[azurnoir]

13. Thousands rally in Ramallah to back Palestinian statehood bid

Thousands of Palestinians flocked to Yasser Arafat Square in central Ramallah on Wednesday for a rally in support of the Palestinian bid for full United Nations membership.

The square was dominated by a huge sign with the words "UN 194" on it, in reference to the Palestinian attempt to become the 194th member state of the international body. The sign was flanked by portraits of former Palestinian President Yasser Arafat, and his successor Mahmoud Abbas, who will on Friday formally submit the Palestinian request to UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/thousands-rally-in-ramallah-to-back-palestinian-statehood-bid-1.385760

well shira perhaps you should inform these obviously benighted people it could be a humanitarian mission of sorts that someone such as yourself who cares so deeply for Palestinians should enjoy

[shira]

14. so it doesn't bother you that the PA won't grant citizenship to refugees within Palestine?

They'll remain without rights for a long, long time but that's okay with you...

That's the very definition of apartheid, is it not?

[azurnoir]

15. apparently its ok with the Palestinian people-if it were true that is n/t

[shira]

18. what makes you think it's not true? n/t

[Ian David]

16. Interview: Refugees will not be citizens of new (Palestinian) state

September 15, 2011 01:51 AM (Last updated: September 15, 2011 10:39 AM)
By Annie Slemrod
The Daily Star

BEIRUT: Palestinian refugees will not become citizens of a new Palestinian state, according to Palestine’s ambassador to Lebanon.

From behind a desk topped by a miniature model of Palestine’s hoped-for blue United Nations chair, Ambassador Abdullah Abdullah spoke to The Daily Star Wednesday about Palestine’s upcoming bid for U.N. statehood.

The ambassador unequivocally says that Palestinian refugees would not become citizens of the sought for U.N.-recognized Palestinian state, an issue that has been much discussed. “They are Palestinians, that’s their identity,” he says. “But … they are not automatically citizens.”

This would not only apply to refugees in countries such as Lebanon, Egypt, Syria and Jordan or the other 132 countries where Abdullah says Palestinians reside. Abdullah said that “even Palestinian refugees who are living in {refugee camps} inside the {Palestinian} state, they are still refugees. They will not be considered citizens.”

More:
http://www.dailystar.com.lb/News/Politics/2011/Sep-15/148791-interview-refugees-will-not-be-citizens-of-new-state.ashx#axzz1Ya5JM3af

[azurnoir]

17. Did this get moved from elsewhere?

if not why post the same OP over again?

[shira]

20. Palestinian Official: No End of Conflict After Palestinian State

There was a time when Palestinian leaders sought to conceal their goal of overrunning the Jewish state in misleading commentary for Western audiences that implied a willingness to accept coexistence with a sovereign Israel. Now, evidently, times have changed and blunt statements are deemed safe to make. A remarkable interview in Lebanon's Daily Star (September 15, 2011) illustrates the shift. According to Abdullah Abdullah, Palestinian ambassador to Lebanon, Palestinians would not all become automatic citizens of any future Palestinian state in the West Bank and Gaza. The story reports:

This would not only apply to refugees in countries such as Lebanon, Egypt, Syria and Jordan or the other 132 countries where Abdullah says Palestinians reside. Abdullah said that “even Palestinian refugees who are living in inside the state, they are still refugees. They will not be considered citizens. Abdullah said that the new Palestinian state would "absolutely not" be issuing Palestinian passports to refugees.

Abdullah's willingness to leave Palestinians stateless in camps even in territory under Palestinian authority is spelled out further for anyone who's missed the point:

The right of return that Abdullah says is to be negotiated would not only apply to those Palestinians whose origins are within the 1967 borders of the state, he adds. “The state is the 1967 borders, but the refugees are not only from the 1967 borders. The refugees are from all over Palestine. When we have a state accepted as a member of the United Nations, this is not the end of the conflict. This is not a solution to the conflict. This is only a new framework that will change the rules of the game.”

Is that clear? "When we have a state accepted as a member of the United Nations, this is not the end of the conflict" just a change in the rules of the game. Sound like the PLO's 1974 "phased plan" for the destruction of Israel?

Something, indeed, is changing when an "ambassador" can give an interview such as this and there's not a ripple in the Western media.
http://blog.camera.org/archives/2011/09/post_76.html