Israel Grows More Isolated As Relationships Sour (interview with Robert Malley)

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n newly-confident Middle East, Israel is feeling increasingly isolated. David Greene talks with Robert Malley, Middle East and North Africa program director at the International Crisis Group, about Israel's growing isolation, following problems with Egypt and Turkey.

DAVID GREENE, host: As we just heard, Palestinian leaders plan to make their bid for statehood before the U.N. later this week. It's an uncomfortable question for Israel, and it comes at an uncomfortable time. Israel's feeling increasingly isolated in a newly confident Middle East.

And to talk about, we're joined in the studio by Robert Malley, Middle East and North Africa Program director for the International Crisis Group.

Robert, thanks for being here again.

Dr. ROBERT MALLEY: Thank you.

GREENE: Talk about the Palestinian leader, Mahmoud Abbas. A push for statehood does not seem like it's something he might have always been in favor of. It seems like a bit of a personal turnaround for him.

MALLEY: And in some way, it goes against every instinct in his body and his entire political history. Here's somebody who's always believed in negotiations, always believed in a strong relationship with the U.S., always believed in reaching out to Israel, and frankly, has been quite skeptical about the U.N. and such institutions.

But I think it tells you something about how desperate Palestinians are, how lacking in alternatives they seem to have - they seem to see, that that leader has now chosen this time, when he has a very - supposedly a very friendly president in the White House, to choose that time to say now we're going to the U.N. and we're going to ask for statehood.

http://www.npr.org/2011/09/14/140458330/israel-grows-more-isolated-after-arab-spring

[aquart]

1. Well, yeah. If you were terrified Arab spring was going after your power

Wouldn't you pick a fight with the most convenient scapegoat to make your people think you were a manly stud government?

Why else would the Palestinians demand statehood without borders?

And Erdogan, he thinks he's a player. But no one wants to be a deposed player.

[azurnoir]

2. Israel has remained a state without borders for at least 44 years now

and arguably for its entire history as some opine when it suits their political leanings that Israel has never had official borders so why the double standard here?

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3. You beat me to pointing out the same thing...

Though I've noticed it's been pointed out several times before and been ignored each time :hi:

[azurnoir]

7. yep upstairs too but ya gotta give at least credit for persistence n/t

[aquart]

6. Go for it, kitten.

I've always favored a Palestinian state.

I'm sure they'll be much nicer to the Bedouins than Israel or Egypt are.

And they'll have no problem attracting industry or supporting themselves with their agriculture. I see a boom coming in Gaza. Or the West Bank. Maybe two Palestinian states?

[JackRiddler]

28. ... then you'd be Israel.

Murdering people on the high seas probably doesn't endear you, either.

[shira]

4. Wow Mr. Malley, you're full of crap!

MALLEY: And in some way, it goes against every instinct in his body and his entire political history. Here's somebody who's always believed in negotiations, always believed in a strong relationship with the U.S., always believed in reaching out to Israel, and frankly, has been quite skeptical about the U.N. and such institutions.

But I think it tells you something about how desperate Palestinians are, how lacking in alternatives they seem to have - they seem to see, that that leader has now chosen this time, when he has a very - supposedly a very friendly president in the White House, to choose that time to say now we're going to the U.N. and we're going to ask for statehood.

If Abbas has always believed in negotiations, why did he have to be dragged to the table with only a few weeks left on an historically unprecedented 9 month settlement freeze? And from this we can gather the Palestinians are 'desperate'?

:shrug:

There's no sense reading further after a lie like that. I refuse to believe Robert Malley doesn't know better...

[TomClash]

5. Thanks for the link

I missed this and it has value.

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8. It's a pretty good interview. Robert Malley's analysis is on the money...

I think his assessment of Abbas is correct. Abbas has always been someone I've seen as not taking risks of any kind, and who's believed in negotiations and endless talks about negotiations. Malley's right in pointing out that doing this now shows the desperation of the Palestinians, and no-one should blame them for that desperation after all the dead-ends and intransigence from both the US and Israel...

[shira]

9. If Abbas were desperate, why did he refuse to negotiate during a 10 month settlement freeze?

He had to be dragged in just a couple weeks before it ended.

Also, this video shows Abbas is intransigent, not desperate...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdqoMKZaTxU&feature=player_embedded

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10. I'm sure you've got the answer to that...

Yr posting stuff from 'IslamAgainstTheWorld'? Great source!!

[shira]

11. So you believe the analysis is right on despite the facts? That makes no sense.

I have no idea what 'IslamAgainstTheWorld' is, nor do I care.

Is this your way to ignore what Abbas said in the video? Did 'IslamAgainstTheWorld' just make it up?

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12. I don't recall saying that, but I guess that I did must be another 'fact'....

I have no idea what 'IslamAgainstTheWorld' is, nor do I care.

Most people would be very wary of posting anything from a channel with a name like that, and most people would be able to sense the bigotry in a name like that and care just a little bit and probably not peddle such crap here at DU...

[shira]

13. Ahh, deflection. Yet another stimulating exchange. n/t

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15. Whatever you reckon. Don't let me stop you from getting on yr way

on edit: I find it extremely disturbing that you can't see any problem with posting a link from a channel with a name like that, and have said you don't care anyway. I bet there would be an extremely different reaction if someone were to post something from a channel naming itself 'JewsAgainstTheWorld' which showed nothing but negative videos about Israel...

[shira]

16. When posting from youtube, I don't even look at the channel from which it comes....

I'd personally have no problem with any video quoting Netanyahu, for example, saying something extremely offensive or intransigent. Doesn't matter which source the video comes from. If Netanyahu said it, he said it. I don't see the point of deflecting...

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18. Here's a suggestion. Look at the channel before posting it here...

And when someone notices that it's a bit stinky, don't tell them you don't care. And don't try to make out you wouldn't have any issues with a channel called 'JewsAgainstTheWorld' that showed nothing but negative videos about Israel....

[shira]

21. You're avoiding the issue. Abbas definitely said something and you think it's okay to ignore it.

It wouldn't matter if David Duke's KKK aired some remarks by Netanyahu. That's no reason to ignore Netanyahu's ramblings.

You ignore this video.

You ignore the Palestinian talking about a Jew free Palestine.

You ignore poll after poll about Palestinian antisemitism.

============

If you question the source, it's as if it cannot possibly be true. Even if the source is okay, it's a mistranslation or misunderstanding.

:eyes:

Nice reality you live in.

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23. You don't get to dictate what's an issue.

Especially when you don't care if something's bigoted or not when it comes to Muslims.

I'll tell you what I'm ignoring from this point on lest you turn this thread into an unwieldy hundreds of posts saga of pointlessness. You...

[shira]

25. Save your poutrage. For someone appalled at bigotry, you shouldn't be touting Robert Malley...

...as someone credible here. His blog is a cesspool of antisemitism.

OTOH, I wouldn't have a problem accepting a fact based report/video from a bigot like Malley. I wouldn't ignore it or pretend it's false based solely on the source.

===============

A strong and enthusiastic supporter of the grossly antisemitic BDS movement doesn't get to dictate what's bigoted on an I/P forum.

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29. Well, that's rude of you!

There's no need to get nasty. See, the thing is that I do oppose all bigotry, not just bigotry against Jews. There's nothing the slightest bit poutragey about it. I find it amusing that someone who has more than once failed to see bigotry against Muslims when the same aimed at Jews would be instantly denounced as antisemitic now sits there and peddles untrue crap about Robert Malley. I've never seen his blog, but I have read a lot from him, and the defence of him by Dennis Ross and others against vicious personal attacks by some mindless 'supporters' of Israel, and he most definately is not antisemitic. The only way anyone could view him as antisemitic is if they believe laying any responsibiility or blame on Israel at all is antisemitic.

I'm pretty sure I established in one of yr hundreds of posts long 'exchanges' that BDS isn't antisemitic at all, and repeating the same crap over and over doesn't make it true.

Now back to yr excuses for posting a link to a YouTube channel called 'IslamAgainstTheWorld'. You claim that you'd have no problems if there was a channel called 'JewsAgainstTheWorld' that showed nothing but negative clips about Israel because you don't care about the source, but only whether what it says is considered by you to be true or not. So all those many posts from you attacking sources without addresssing a word of what's said in articles being posted were a figment of my imagination? Uh-huh...

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14. For anyone interested, here's some older, but equally interesting stuff from Robert Malley...

Camp David: The Tragedy of Errors
AUGUST 9, 2001
Robert Malley and Hussein Agha

Mr. Malley, as Special Assistant to President Clinton for Arab-Israeli Affairs, was a member of the US peace team and participated in the Camp David summit. Mr. Agha has been involved in Palestinian affairs for more than thirty years and during this period has had an active part in Israeli-Palestinian relations.

In accounts of what happened at the July 2000 Camp David summit and the following months of Israeli-Palestinian negotiations, we often hear about Ehud Barak’s unprecedented offer and Yasser Arafat’s uncompromising no. Israel is said to have made a historic, generous proposal, which the Palestinians, once again seizing the opportunity to miss an opportunity, turned down. In short, the failure to reach a final agreement is attributed, without notable dissent, to Yasser Arafat.

As orthodoxies go, this is a dangerous one. For it has larger ripple effects. Broader conclusions take hold. That there is no peace partner is one. That there is no possible end to the conflict with Arafat is another.

For a process of such complexity, the diagnosis is remarkably shallow. It ignores history, the dynamics of the negotiations, and the relationships among the three parties. In so doing, it fails to capture why what so many viewed as a generous Israeli offer, the Palestinians viewed as neither generous, nor Israeli, nor, indeed, as an offer. Worse, it acts as a harmful constraint on American policy by offering up a single, convenient culprit—Arafat—rather than a more nuanced and realistic analysis.

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2001/aug/09/camp-david-the-tragedy-of-errors/

[shira]

17. Malley has no credibility when he says Palestinians like Abbas are desperate.

Even you realize that.

It's why you can't answer how a desperate PA leadership refused to negotiate during a 10 month settlement freeze.

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19. I don't realise anything of the sort...

But seeing you claim to know what I think, I wish you'd stop following me around asking me idiotic questions that with yr gift of knowing what I think, must already have the answer to without me having to get involved at all...

I'll leave you to it as I seem to be superfluous when it comes to discussing my own opinions.

[shira]

22. Sure you don't. It's why you can't answer the simplest questions. n/t

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24. Yeah, it couldn't possibly be that I'm not interested in yr idea of 'stimulating discussion'...

I have a massive aversion to engaging with folk who repeatedly tell me what I supposedly think, so I'll refer you to the last line of post #23 and leave you to yr own devices. Sadly I can't give you my password so you can just post as me and tell everyone what I think, so you'll have to make do with what you've got.

Later!

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20. International Crisis Group....

Robert Malley is one of their directors, and they're a great resource, especially the email alerts...

http://www.crisisgroup.org/

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26. In Defense of Robert Malley

Over the past several weeks, a series of vicious, personal attacks have been launched against one of our colleagues, Robert Malley, who served as President Clinton’s special assistant for Arab–Israeli affairs. They claim that he harbors an anti-Israeli agenda and has sought to undermine Israel’s security. These attacks are unfair, inappropriate, and wrong. They are an effort to undermine the credibility of a talented public servant who has worked tirelessly over the years to promote Arab–Israeli peace and US national interests. They must stop.

We have real differences among us about how best to conduct US policy toward the Middle East and what is the right way to build a lasting two-state solution that protects Israel’s security. But whatever differences do exist, there is no disagreement among us on one core issue that transcends partisan or other divides: that the US should not and will not do anything to undermine Israel’s safety or the special relationship between our two nations. We have worked with Rob closely over the years and have no doubt he shares this view and has acted consistent with it.

We face a critical period in the Middle East that demands sustained, determined, and far-sighted engagement by the United States. It is not a time for scurrilous attacks against someone who deserves our respect.

Samuel (Sandy) Berger, Former National Security Adviser; Ambassador Martin Indyk, Former Ambassador to Israel and Egypt and Assistant Secretary of State for Near East Affairs; Ambassador Daniel C. Kurtzer, Former Ambassador to Israel; Aaron David Miller, Former Senior Adviser for Arab–Israeli Negotiations, Department of State; Ambassador Dennis Ross, Former Special Envoy of the President to the Middle East

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2008/mar/20/in-defense-of-robert-malley/

Smearing Rob Malley - MJ Rosenberg

Robert Malley is a creative scholar and diplomat who was a key player in the Clinton negotiating team that worked tirelessly to end the Israeli-Palestinian conflict in the late 1990s through 2001. Recently, he signed ons an unofficial adviser to the Barack Obama campaign, while maintaining his close ties to his former Clinton colleagues.

Malley's connection to the campaign produced a firestorm. Apparently, Malley wrote several articles during the last few years stating, as someone who participated at Camp David, that all the blame for the summit's failure did not rest with Yasir Arafat, but that Ehud Barak also deserved his share of the blame.

For stating that fact (as also reported by every other participant at Camp David including President Clinton), Malley has been condemned as "fanatically anti-Israel." Jews around the country are being warned that they must vote against Obama to prevent Malley from ever darkening the halls of the State Department or White House again. Similar attacks are being made against Ambassador Joe Wilson who, it is said, is also no friend of Israel and can be expected to serve in a Hillary Clinton administration.

All this is bogus. Both Malley and Wilson are pro-Israel. The only reason that they are criticized by the extremists is because they both support Israeli-Palestinian negotiations.

The attacks on Malley, which are particularly vicious, come from a right-wing rag called the American Thinker and from the former publisher of the New Republic, Martin Peretz, who openly despises the Clintons and anyone who has ever been associated with them. As a former member of Clinton's peace team, Malley receives Peretz's trademark vitriolic scorn.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mj-rosenberg/smearing-rob-malley_b_87290.html

[bemildred]

27. It is important in this context that the USA and EU have also insulted Turkey.

And more than once.