U.S. to Netanyahu: Don't sanction Palestinians following statehood bid at UN

[bemildred]

The United States and several European countries have been urging Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu not to take drastic punitive measures against the Palestinians after they ask the United Nations to recognize their state.

Netanyahu, who is under heavy pressure from Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman, Finance Minister Yuval Steinitz and Deputy Prime Minister Moshe Ya'alon to respond strongly to the Palestinian Authority, has decided at this point to wait until the significance of the Palestinian move becomes clearer to commit to any course of action.

According to a senior diplomatic source in Jerusalem, U.S. envoys Dennis Ross and David Hill, as well as other American officials, have asked Netanyahu over the past two weeks not to take any steps that would destabilize the PA, such as cutting off security cooperation.

U.S. President Barack Obama last week told reporters that if Jerusalem suspends security cooperation with the PA as a result of the latter's approach to the United Nations, it would be only hurting itself.

http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/u-s-to-netanyahu-don-t-sanction-palestinians-following-statehood-bid-at-un-1.385233

[bemildred]

1. Deputy FM Ayalon warns Palestinians of Israeli sanctions

Today (Sunday, 18th September), Deputy Foreign Minister Danny Ayalon told
the Palestinian Donors Conference held at the United Nations that Israel is
interested in continuing to assist Palestinian economic development, but
this position could be affected if the Palestinians unilaterally declare a
state.

"Future assistance and cooperation could be severely and irreparably
compromised if the Palestinian leadership continues on its path of
essentially acting in contravention of all signed agreements which also
regulate existing economic relations between Israel and the Palestinian
Authority," Ayalon told the conference, which was hosted by
Under-Secretary-General for Political Affairs, B. Lynn Pascoe and chaired by
Norwegian Foreign Minister Jonas Ghar Store. The Palestinians were
represented by Prime Minister Salam Fayyad.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/deputy-fm-ayalon-warns-palestinians-of-israeli-sanctions-1.385299

[oberliner]

2. US trying to control the Israeli government

Flip this around and you'd get howling over Israeli leaders trying to influence US policy.

Other way round is all good?

[bemildred]

3. I don't know that it's good, or not, but it's certainly to be expected, both ways. nt

[hack89]

4. Israel should open up travel between Gaza and the WB

and then just sit back and watch the "Palestinian state" implode into civil war.

It is ironic beyond belief just how much more the PA is now beholden to Israel for their survival.

[Xolodno]

5. Thats probably what they are worried about.

Seems almost certain a Palestinian civil war will happen much like the Irish Civil war when they gained their independence. If it should happen, then:

1. Israel will finally have to confront its own domestic problems. So long as they has the specter of "terrorist attacks" they could sweep them under the rug. They boiled up recently, but with the whole UN thing, its kept it on the back burner still.

2. Israel will have to confront its own increasing partisan politics. Which could also turn violent.

3. Israel will need to decide which side they are going to "aid", Hamas or the PLO (although that's probably a given). That aid will take on the form of military training and equipping the very people they consider enemies. If they stay neutral, then another country will all be too happy to assist one of the sides in exchange for some "influence".

4. They will have to face the economic loss as Palestinians will toss Israeli companies out in favor for their own start ups.

And if Hamas and the PLO come to a peaceful resolution, reunify, have elections, etc. Israel will still have 3 out of 4 problems mentioned above.

[hack89]

6. There will be no peaceful resolution

Hamas sees this entire statehood push as the PA trying to outmaneuver and de-legitimize Hamas. They don't want anything to do with the West Bank - they just need their little autonomous enclave as a base to attack Israel.

Your comparison to Ireland is apt - just how many decades of violence resulted from Irish independence?

[azurnoir]

7. why is that when taken as a body your posts on this subject

seem to a wish for bloodshed as long as it is Arab/Muslim blood being shed, am I wrong about this? It seems whether the subject is Turkey, Egypt, Palestinians, Lebanese, or anyone not Israeli you seem top go the 'let god sort them out' route or is just that there is something in your posts I am missing?

[hack89]

8. My point is that supporters of statehood don't see the cliff ahead

the Palestinians have one chance to do this right. A civil war means a stillborn nation. Yet no one has yet to articulate just how the Palestinians are going to create a functioning nation when it is split into two separate enclaves governed by groups that hate each other.

So what happens when Hamas fires a rocket at Israel seconds after the UN vote? The stakes get much higher when nations attack other nations. I understand the frustration with the status quo but here is a unilateral act that has the potential to destroy not only all progress but any future. This could be the death of the dream of a Palestinian state.

[azurnoir]

9. right but we do see the so called cliff ahead

Hamas will most likely resist statehood however both the PA and the people of Gaza desire this so Hamas will be left with little choice they could try the time proven provoke Israel route and Israel I am sure will be more than willing to co-operate, however Egypt is new player here and that could well change the game for Hamas

[hack89]

10. The people of Gaza? Really?

Hamas has canceled scheduled elections in Gaza - we know what Hamas thinks about the will of the people.

The ME is full of dictatorships - Gaza will be another one. Hamas has plenty of examples of how to keep the people in line - I am sure Iran will lend all the assistance they need.

Egypt will do nothing - they depend to much on the US for military and foreign aid. And why do you even think Egypt wants a Palestinian state - they certainly made to effort to set one up in all the years they ruled Gaza.

[azurnoir]

16. don't be so sure there Egypt may do plenty depending on the incentives

and how much problem Hamas and other groups in Gaza cause them also there is the PA Gaza may well see its own springtime

[hack89]

20. Who is going to provide incentives?

They sure as hell don't want to get involved with managing the Palestinians. And they certainly don't want to get in the middle of a civil war.

If there was a Palestinian springtime, then the PA would be swinging from the lamp poles next to Hamas. Lets not forget that there are two corrupt, undemocratic groups involved here - it is simply a matter of degrees.

[azurnoir]

21. who is giving the Egyptian incentives now? quick better write your Congressman

about that one or is he/she already trying to take care of that one? the PA will hardly be swinging from the lamp-poles but the demonization of the PA/PLO these days is quite telling of some who are quite worried

[hack89]

22. Who is the second largest recipient of US foreign aid?

What exactly are we worried about? Hamas is in control - they have the absolute power to blow statehood out the water by demonstrating how powerless the PA is. The PA has no power in Gaza.

[Xolodno]

12. And...

...should Bibi's government fall apart and a more moderate group is ushered in, negotiations take place (assuming they are fruitful), etc. They could stipulate that Gaza is a special status and attacks from it will not be considered an attack from the PA...until the PA retakes the territory. Right now, the biggest enemy Hamas has is Hamas.

They know they will lose in a new election (and hence don't want another election). And ironically, their actions have given the hardliners in Israel exactly what they wanted, an enemy. They also have given the PA what they wanted, a boost to its popularity. But in doing so, diminished their popularity both internationally and domestically.

When they took Gaza they over reached and mis-calculated. Who knows what they were thinking, did they think they could undo the Oslo Accords? The election was a referendum on the peace process? Or that the West Bank would throw out the PA as well? Whatever the case, I'm pretty sure being the the current static to slow decline position wasn't what they had hoped for.

[shira]

11. Right, they don't care. Never did. It's all about being anti-Israel. n/t

[Xolodno]

13. Which gives the advantage to the PA...

Prior to the Hamas take over of Gaza they had a lot of criticism over the PLO's more militant groups. You don't hear a word about them now.

Thus the PA looks like a willing political group facing the hardline Israeli government. Interestingly enough, the only way Israel will look good again politically is if they offer some substantial concessions and the PA refuses again. Which seems a given, but what if the PA said "deal"? Which may actually be the worry on the Israeli side. Whose going to flinch first in this crazy game of chicken?

[shira]

14. Israel won't look good by offering substantial concessions...

Good will lasted all of 5 minutes after the Gaza pullout.

Olmert's extremely generous 2008 offer was hardly reported in the media.

[Xolodno]

15. So your position is...

...Israel will always come out looking bad, so they may as well be hard asses.

The "good will" after the Gaza pull out lasted until Hamas was elected into the Palestinian government (which ran on a platform of domestic reform...and obviously ignored it once in power). Israel took an immediate hostile position to it, had they initially embraced them to a degree and Hamas then shown its true colors...PR win for Israel.

As for Olmert's offer, of course it was hardly reported to the media, it was done on a secret channel between him and Abbas, of which the details didn't come out until 2009 or late 2008. And he was hardly in a position to use the PA refusal as leverage when he was subject to a corruption investigation. But if they give the same offer today...The PA would be hard pressed to refuse it, if they did, then they lose all the political gains they have made.

[shira]

18. No, Israel should do what it needs to do - not for point scoring. n/t

[azurnoir]

17. the seeming simple mindedness astounds along with the denial n/t

[shira]

19. Sometimes it really is that simple. n/t