Taking on Turkey: Israel’s ‘Dangerous’ Game (Ramzy Baroud)

[Tace]

Ramzy Baroud -- World News Trust

Sept. 14, 2011 -- The UN Palmer Report, which largely exonerated Israel for murdering nine unarmed Turkish civilians in international waters May 31, 2010, seemed in some ways like the last straw. Prior to its publication, the camel’s back had already mostly broken, and a collapse in Turkish-Israeli ties was looming.

Turkey’s sin was seeking an apology for the killing of its citizens -- on their way to deliver essential, life-saving supplies to malnourished and besieged Palestinians in Gaza -– at the hand of Israeli army commandos.

If the civilians had been Israelis, and the commandos part of a Turkish force, all hell would have broken loose. Israel and the United States would have declared Turkey a pariah state. Turkey, however, merely demanded an apology, and it was affronted further for doing so.

Of course, this is not the first time that Israel deliberately provoked and tested Turkish patience. Israel has attempted to infiltrate Turkey’s own political spaces by supporting its regional opponents and arming various rebel groups with the aim of destabilizing Turkey.

more

http://worldnewstrust.com/all-content/taking-on-turkey-israels-dangerous-game-ramzy-baroud.html

[ProgressiveProfessor]

1. As usual Baroud ignores the inconvenient

It is starting to come out, but Turkey is also trying to prevent the legitimate government of Cyprus from drilling for natural gas in its own waters and trying to claim it for itself. It is doing this via classic gunboat diplomacy.

The reality is that Turkey is making a fuss over Gaza as a distraction and little more.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x4999255
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/09/19/turkey-cyprus-idUSL5E7KJ11H20110919
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/09/18/us-turkey-cyprus-idUSTRE78H0GN20110918

There is also the ongoing Turkish invasion and occupation of Cyprus to consider, not to mention their prior genocides.

[Violet_Crumble]

3. Yeah, it's not like the killings of nine of its citizens is anything that it'd get annoyed about...

The reality is that Turkey is making a fuss over Gaza as a distraction and little more....

I guess the killing of those nine Turks isn't even worth worrying about...

[ProgressiveProfessor]

4. Given Turkey's record, they are not even a blip

His statements are full of machismo, he is using them as a pretext and nothing more.

"Look at this shiny new thing, not our record or intentions"

[Violet_Crumble]

16. And the same could be said of Israel with its record...

Given that yr no mind-reader, and there very much appears to be a genuine anger that Israel killed nine Turkish citizens, any reasonable person can come to the conclusion that the anger of the Turkish public over the killings is reflected in the stance of the government.

[hack89]

6. Considering that they have a history of killing their own citizens

the moral outrage certainly seems misplaced.

But the ethnic cleansing of Kurdish regions by the Turks is "different".

[King_David]

15. They do not care about those 9 terrorists

That were killed , even if they were Turkish citizens.

They do not care about Gaza or Palustinians .

It is all about OIL . Israel's oil. And Turkey wants it !

[Violet_Crumble]

17. They weren't terrorists...

It's almost as though some 'supporters' of Israel believe that if someone is killed by Israel, then that means by default the person killed is a terrorist.

I'm not sure what the level of concern for the Palestinians is, but it's certainly a lot higher than that of the US government and quite a few 'supporters' of Israel...

[King_David]

19. To some people Hamas are just a peaceful government

As peaceful as the IHH .

[Violet_Crumble]

20. So what? How does that mean the 9 civilians killed were terrorists?

It doesn't.

[King_David]

21. They are most certainly terrorists :

BERLIN – The Austrian Jewish community issued a statement on Wednesday calling for the Austrian Interior Ministry to replicate the German ban of the International Humanitarian Relief Organization and outlaw the Austrian branch of the Turkish IHH NGO.

The German Interior Ministry shut down the Frankfurt- based IHH Germany this week because of its financial support of Hamas.


The 7,500-member Austrian Jewish community also called for the resignation of Social Democratic Councilman Omar al-Rawi, because of his “agitational politics” in support of the IHH activists who attacked Israeli naval commandos aboard the Turkish- sponsored Mavi Marmara protest ship on May 31.

http://www.jpost.com/International/Article.aspx?id=181608


US may list Turkish IHH as terror group
By JPOST.COM STAFF
07/15/2010 13:48


In written letter, 87 US senators call on Obama to investigate group.

the US State Department is considering adding Turkish Muslim charity organization IHH (The Foundation for Human Rights and Humanitarian Relief) to the list of foreign terrorist organizations, Fox News reported Thursday. The report came after the organization financed and operated the Gaza-bound Mavi Marmara on which nine people were killed in a confrontation with IDF soldiers.

http://www.jpost.com/International/Article.aspx?id=181502


7 flotilla victims wanted to be martyrs, report says
By YAAKOV KATZ
07/14/2010 03:18


According to report, eight of the nine passengers belonged to the IHH radical Islamic group.

Seven out of the nine passengers who were killed aboard the Mavi Marmara Turkish passenger ship on May 31 had expressed their desire to die before the flotilla set sail for the Gaza Strip, according to a report put out Tuesday by an Israeli research center.


http://www.jpost.com/MiddleEast/Article.aspx?id=181358


Germany bans IHH for Hamas links
By BENJAMIN WEINTHAL AND ASSOCIATED PRESS AND JPOS
07/12/2010 15:32


Berlin official: Organization supported Gaza welfare projects.


BERLIN – Germany has banned the Frankfurt-based Foundation for Human Rights and Freedoms and Humanitarian Relief (IHH) because it “fights against Israel’s right to exist.”

“Organizations that operate from German soil, directly or indirectly, with the aim of fighting Israel’s right to exist, have forfeited their right to freedom of association,” Germany’s Interior Minister Thomas de Maiziere said on Monday.


http://www.jpost.com/SpecialSection/Article.aspx?id=181187


'We will throw them into the sea'
By JPOST.COM STAFF
06/18/2010 18:15


IHH head calls for violence, "martyrdom" in new 'Marmara' footage.

New footage from the Mavi Marmara was released by the Foreign Ministry on Friday afternoon, this time showing IHH head Bülent Yildirim inciting to violence against Israeli commandos hours before the encounter that claimed the lives of nine Turkish passengers.

http://www.jpost.com/SpecialSection/Article.aspx?id=178856


European Jews demand EU ban on IHH
By JPOST.COM STAFF
06/08/2010 15:11


Claim that charity fits European definition of a terror organization.
The European Jewish Congress, the umbrella body for Jewish communities in Europe has formally requested that the "Foundation for Human Rights and Freedoms and Humanitarian Relief" (Insani Yardim Vakfi), otherwise known as the IHH be placed on the EU list of proscribed terrorist organizations and its assets seized and frozen.

http://www.jpost.com/International/Article.aspx?id=177838


FUCKING TERRORISTS


;)

[Violet_Crumble]

22. Those nine people killed weren't terrorists

To continue to smear them is disrespectful in the extreme and displays a complete lack of understanding of what terrorism is. See someone is not a terrorist by default just because Israel kills them.

If anyone's got to be a fuckng terrorist let's make it those who killed innocent civilians on that ship.

[King_David]

23. Afraid that it is not a smear, the truth is the truth.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=124&topic_id=364970&mesg_id=365376

[Violet_Crumble]

26. It's an ugly and disgusting smear

Not sure what you think linking to yr own nonsensical posts is supposed to prove

[King_David]

29. Ha ha

Nonsensical ?

That's it ?

My 4 year old son believes the moon is made of cheese, but it isn't .



:)

[Violet_Crumble]

32. Maybe you could try and get the point yr trying to make across slightly coherently?

But to answer yet another stupid question. Yes, the post you linked to is nonsensical. What you need to do is take a step back, examine what it is yr trying to argue, and then find something to support that claim, rather than posting random nonsense...

[King_David]

35. That pseudo intellectual rude post

Deserves no polite reply.

[Violet_Crumble]

38. Nothing psuedo intellectual nor rude about it...

But if there's going to be a non-polite reply stemming from it, go for it :)

[King_David]

42. I notice that as a person gets

The upper hand in an argument with you ( frequent occurrence)

The more hostile you get.

Why is that?

I used to teach anger management ; I would be happy

to share a few tips with you if you want to PM me..

[Violet_Crumble]

44. Nah. I'm not hostile at all wishful thinking on yr part

I didn't realize that the incoherent stuff youve posted in this thread is seen by you as getting the upper hand in an argument. There ya go. Kind of a sad qnd adversarial way to approach contributing to this forum IMO. You'll find yr experience here far more productive if you take the advice anyone who's actually given training on emotional intelligence would give to anyone going into something with an adversarial, everything is a fight to be won attitude.

[King_David]

45. Well now maybe you can repeat that

Coherently. As it really made no sense.(And I am not just saying that )

[Violet_Crumble]

46. It was very coherent.

Full and completed sentences. A clear concept of what was being said. Not sure if there's much that can be done to assist the comprehension of someone who tells me they don't understand and then follows it up immediately with 'and I am not just saying that'.

[King_David]

25. Civilians ?

According to report, eight of the nine passengers belonged to the IHH radical Islamic group.

Seven out of the nine passengers who were killed aboard the Mavi Marmara Turkish passenger ship on May 31 had expressed their desire to die before the flotilla set sail for the Gaza Strip, according to a report put out Tuesday by an Israeli research center.


http://www.jpost.com/MiddleEast/Article.aspx?id=181358

[Violet_Crumble]

27. Yes civilians Ggot any more stupid questions?

[King_David]

28. Maybe you do not like these facts

But they are just that : facts .

;)

[Violet_Crumble]

30. What facts are you going on about?

And what have they got to do with the ugly and revolting smear you made about nine civilians who were killed?

[King_David]

31. "stupid questions" huh

It must be difficult for someone as " smart and clever" as you to answer such "stupid" questions in DU ?

[Violet_Crumble]

33. Yes, and it's now become a series of stupid questions...

I'm not sure who yr quoting that said I was "smart and clever". Or are you self-quoting? Anyway, I've had no troubles answering the series of stupid questions so far, seeing as how they all involve repeating something I've said already with a question mark at the end of it.

[King_David]

36. Nah your just bring rude and

A big Yawn .

[Violet_Crumble]

39. That doesn't even appear to be a complete sentence...

It makes no sense at all...

[King_David]

41. You seem to struggle a lot..

with quite a few posters on this board .


I have heard that from loads of people on DU


and other forums too.


(I triple spaced this message for you.)

;)

[Violet_Crumble]

47. Do I? What do you mean by struggle?

Not sure that I particularly care what some twits think who may or may not have no issues with talking privately with someone who thinks that hating Muslims isn't Islamophobic. Especially from other forums. Didn't u tell me not long ato that u weren't into what happened on other forums? You should try and keep yr story straight, as well as trying to put a curb on the need to try to make things personal when u insist on replying to my posts.

[King_David]

48. Soo funny

Not.

I know your obsession with people and stories being "straight".

I am bored with this infantile conversation that you seem to think is soooo clever.

Outa here to leave you to it. Enjoy !!

Bye Bye

;)

[Violet_Crumble]

49. What a shame yr bailing out!

That second line is totally incoherent. I've got no idea what yr talking about...

If you get bored with infantile conversations (and for the record I don't find anything you post falls into the 'clever' category), you could do some self-help and work on raising the level of discourse. That would involve having to knock off the abuse and getting all personal, so it might not be an option for you...

To take things back to yr original claim that the nine civilians the IDF killed were terrorists, it was an ugly and dishonest smear that's not surprising considering where it came from...

[shira]

34. Yes, civilians like you and me, members of the IHH, wishing to die as martyrs.

Singing death to Jews songs before attempting to break a legal blockade.

Attacking IDF soldiers for doing their jobs.

Civilians.

And damned fine humanitarians. Salt of the earth!

=======

Got anymore dumb questions?

:)

[The Stranger]

8. STRAW MAN

Please tell me you're not a professor in real life.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

9. Turkey is using the Israeli issues to cover its real agendas

Is that so hard to understand?

[Harmony Blue]

10. Sorry not buying it

as a Greek, I have as much of a reason to "hate" Turks, but it is clear as day.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

11. Links were posted earlier...its not like they are hiding their territorial desires

nor their willingness to use military aggression

[The Stranger]

12. You're using Cyprian issues to cover Israel's real agenda.

Is that so hard to understand?

[ProgressiveProfessor]

13. Israel's agenda has been pretty clear for quite some time

It is Turkish one that is being obscured

[Violet_Crumble]

18. So, what is Israel's agenda?

I'd be interested to know what you think it is...

[King_David]

37. I do not blame anyone not answering

Such rudeness

;)

[Violet_Crumble]

40. Huh?? What's rude about that question...

'So, what is Israel's agenda?

I'd be interested to know what you think it is...'


Maybe asking 'what is Israel's agenda' is incredibly rude or something?

[azurnoir]

14. Bull puckey pure and simple and it took over a year to produce that movement

political constipation or what?

[Owlet]

2. There was a saying during the Korean Conflict:

"Don't furk with the Turks."

[hack89]

7. All those dead Armenian and Kurdish innocents would agree with you - if they could. nt

[Codeine]

24. Yeah, committing genocide will earn you quite a reputation. nt

[bemildred]

5. I had forgotten that fuckwittedness with Ayalon and the turkish ambassador.

I am sure that is quite relevant to the turkish attitude now.

[Jefferson23]

43. True to form:

Since an apology is a "precedent," Israel responded in the only way it knows how. An accusatory campaign was launched against Turkey with outlandish insinuations and direct threats.