It's the occupation, stupid

[Jefferson23]

Whatever transpires at the UN, the world should focus on what is happening on the ground in Palestine.

Sandy Tolan Last Modified: 25 Sep 2011 14:53

It's the show that time and the world forgot. It's called the Occupation and it's now in its 45th year. Playing on a landscape about the size of Delaware, it remains largely hidden from view, while Middle Eastern headlines from elsewhere seize the day.

Diplomats shuttle back and forth from Washington and Brussels to Middle Eastern capitals; the Israeli-Turkish alliance ruptures amid bold declarations from the Turkish prime minister; crowds storm the Israeli embassy in Cairo, while Israeli ambassadors flee the Egyptian capital and Amman, the Jordanian one; and of course, there's the headliner, the show-stopper of the moment, the Palestinian Authority's campaign for statehood in the United Nations, which will prompt an Obama administration veto in the Security Council.

But whatever the Turks, Egyptians, or Americans do, whatever symbolic satisfaction the Palestinian Authority may get at the UN, there's always the Occupation and there - take it from someone just back from a summer living in the West Bank - Israel isn't losing. It's winning the battle, at least the one that means the most to Palestinians and Israelis, the one for control over every square foot of ground.

Inch by inch, metre by metre, Israel's expansion project in the West Bank and Jerusalem is, in fact, gaining momentum, ensuring that the "nation" that the UN might grant membership will be each day a little smaller, a little less viable, a little less there.

How to disappear a land:

remainder: http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth/opinion/2011/09/201192411359575499.html

[hack89]

1. What excuse does Hamas have?

Gaza is not occupied.

[Jefferson23]

2. I'm saying this to you as respectfully as possible, find a source

that you find reliable..perhaps the Red Cross reports you will consider, as a start. As your question seems to me you are
under a false assumption of the conditions there and who/what is primarily responsible for it.

[hack89]

3. So you can ignore it?

Israel unilaterally withdrew from.Gaza and Hams immediately started to shoot rockets. Israel implemented a legal blockade to prevent Hams from obtaining more.powerful weapons. That is where we stand now. Things will not change until Hamas accepts peace.

[Jefferson23]

5. I haven't ignored anything. My suggestion was for you to look

into it further..you have an incomplete/false scenario. I could list sources, but you likely would reject them..that is
why I stressed find one you do trust, i.e: Red Cross reports. Start there and if you trust what they report you may be
curious to continue to see if other information you presumed to be accurate still remains as such.

No one is ignoring the issues that have come from Hamas, I do not suggest that.

[azurnoir]

7. Hamas like Israel is against the Palestinian UN bid

the blockade would be legal if it kept it's focus on weapons rather than food medicine any import or export of any goods

[sabbat hunter]

8. actually

it has been ruled that the blockade is indeed legal, and israel allows in food and medicine to Gaza.

[azurnoir]

9. Israel allows very limited quantities of food and medicine into Gaza

the supposed ruling that the blockade was legal was in fact a non-binding opinion in a report that attempted to throw both Israel and Turkey a bone so to speak

[bemildred]

10. The blockade has also been "ruled illegal".

It all depends on who you talk to.

http://ccrjustice.org/search/node/gaza

CCR Denounces UN Report on Gaza Flotilla

http://ccrjustice.org/newsroom/press-releases/ccr-denounces-un-report-gaza-flotilla

[azurnoir]

16. True enough thanks for the links too n/t

[oberliner]

11. That's not true

Literally tons and tons weekly.

[azurnoir]

14. UNRWA says the amounts are inadequate for the needs of the population

no matter if its 'tons and tons '

[oberliner]

29. You wrote "very limited quantities of food and medicine"

This is not true. The UNRWA website indicates that there is literally a "seemingly endless line of trucks at the crossing" bringing food and medicine from Israel into Gaza.

[vminfla]

13. It is called Customs

Every time I go to Canada or Europe I have to pass Customs when returning to the US. That is hardly a blockade. Israel's protection of its borders is exactly the same thing.

[azurnoir]

15. No Israel's total blockade of Gaza is not the same as customs

in other countries why even try to foist such a ridiculous assertion off on people Israel allows almost no exports or imports either

[vminfla]

17. It is exactly the same

you have a couple of weapons runners trying to collapse the blockade, but every day tons of food, medicine, clothing, and building supplies enter legally through the ports into Palestinian territories.

[azurnoir]

18. what are you talking about? a couple of weapons runners?

the flotilla was not importing weapons to Gaza

[vminfla]

19. Those must have been "humanitarian" axes, hatchets, bulletproof vests, etc...

[azurnoir]

20. so it is your claim that the items pictured were being brought into Gaza as

weapons? well if that is the case that would explain the need for the claimed bullet proof vests

oh and BTW pictures are not allowed on the I/P forum so you can edit your post or leave the picture of kitchen knives wrenches wooden sticks ect really do speak to the ridiculousness of your claim

[vminfla]

21. Seems silly to run hatchets and bulletproof vests if people are hungry

What I find riduculous is purporting that these are humanitarian aid runs to provide food and medicine when the food and medicine enters the country just fine through customs. It's only the bulletproof vests and hatchets that are sent on these "humanitarian aid ships".

[azurnoir]

22. your actually serious aren't you?

most if not all of the items pictured would be used on normal shipboard life the bullet proof vests which I did not see in the picture were for self protection remember IDF had threatened deadly force prior to the flotilla and might explain why so many of the victims had been shot in the head

[vminfla]

23. Normal shipboard life in the cargo hold?

And, no, I do not remember the IDF threatining deadly force prior to the flotilla. I recall that Israel promised to protect its borders and if anyone was interested in running humanitarian aid into Gaza, a legal method of doing so was available. That these individuals chose to incite violence during a lawful seizure action and take up arms against the lawfully boarding IDF Soldiers explains why the IDF had to return force in kind.

[azurnoir]

24. so now they were in the cargo hold is this an IDF claim or did it get pulled from somewhere? n/t

[vminfla]

25. You seem to be the only one saying otherwise

Then again, it is hard to use the argument that these hatchets, axes, knives, and bulletproof vests are the daily tools and attire of sailors everywhere if they were in crates destined to Gaza. Funny, I do not recall either Bluto or Popeye sporting kevlar.

[azurnoir]

26. aha Popeye and Bluto are not real but such an assertion does explain much

as to the rest I have already explained, and oh when IDF says 'defend our borders' what do they mean they'll use rough language? maybe crude gesticulations? no it means deadly force

[vminfla]

27. The Food and Medicine were not real either

Just axes, hatchets, bulletproof vests and other assorted and sundry items that can either be readily used as weapons or converted as weapons once in the hands of Hamas.

And again, the IDF used the necessary level of force to protect their borders and themselves from injury. You did see the poor soldier that was beaten and thrown overboard?

[azurnoir]

28. ah ya Hamas has no access to kitchen knives okay dokey then n/t

[vminfla]

31. I agree

9 Darwin award winners for running kitchen utensils and a few big items. Seems to be a pretty worthless way to throw away your life. But, just like we learned about how drug lords and other criminals, sometimes you do a few dry runs to test the defenses of law enforcement as well as the resolve of your mules. This way, you are not out the really good stuff in later shipments.

[King_David]

30. No?

Last years Flotilla included the IHH a known terrorist organization.

8 of whom were killed while attacking Israeli Commandos , (WITH WEAPONS) who were enforcing

what the Palmer report has ascertained is a LEGAL BLOCKADE.

So you have supernatural powers to ascertain they were not importing weapons?

Ha Ha

[azurnoir]

32. Nope unless of course you consider kitchen knives to be weapons

oh and sticks too tell us do you usually consider these things weapons or is it only when they're in the hands of a certain group people? BTW the US as of yet does not consider IHH a terrorist group

and this ridiculous claim

"So you have supernatural powers to ascertain they were not importing weapons?"

no I have news reports for that

[vminfla]

34. Adding the flotilla sponsors IHH to the US Terrorist List is a Work in Progress

The US Senate is almost unanimously agreed upon adding IHH to the terrorist list. 87 Senators signed off on a resolution sent to Obama to add IHH to the terrorist watch list
http://www.investigativeproject.org/3080/senators-urge-terror-designation-for-turkish-group

You have not seen this much bipartisan support of any measure before the US senate in quite some time. We are now only waiting on unilateral action by Obama to list IHH as a terrorist organization.
.

[pelsar]

12. and some of us don't even need "reports"

we know enough to understand that a govt (gaza) that can build 5 star hotels, build luxurious shopping centers and has poor people has first and foremost a distribution problem of its resources. Furtermore when a govt is busy almost daily attacking its neighbor (land attacks and missile), they lose the right to expect that same neighbor to open up its borders.

pretty simple: stop trying to kill us and there might be an attitude change, keep trying to kill us and you shouldn't expect much.

[holdencaufield]

33. Occupied...

oc·cu·py (ky-p)tr.v. oc·cu·pied, oc·cu·py·ing, oc·cu·pies

1. To fill up (time or space): a lecture that occupied three hours.
2. To dwell or reside in.
3. To hold or fill (an office or position).
4. To seize possession of and maintain control over by or as if by conquest.
5. To engage or employ the attention or concentration of: occupied the children with coloring books.

There isn't a single Jew in Gaza, so Israel doesn't fill up, dwell in, hold, seize, maintain control, or engage the attention of Gaza. Occupation is an incorrect term.

Gaza has it's own government and a border with a supposedly friendly nation (Egypt).

Israel blockades Gaza and you can argue about the legality of that occupation (as many do) but to say Gaza is occupied is wrong and adds no factual basis for a conversation.

[oberliner]

4. Wow, that expression hasn't been overused!

From 2005:

Poll question: It's the (fill in the blank), stupid!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x308104

[parkia00]

6. BiBi Already Knows That.

But he cannot admit to it. If he does, his "base" will pull the carpet out from under him and he will fall flat on his nose. No more Mr. Prime Minister. And his replacement will be in the same position.