'Collective punishment against rioters'

[Jefferson23]

Yair Altman Published: 09.25.11, 19:52 / Israel News


Clashes between settlers and Palestinians broke out Sunday following a rally commemorating the deaths of Asher Palmer and his infant son Yehonatan in Kiryat Arba last Friday.

Some 150 people held a protest rally in the scene of the terror attack prior to the victims' funeral. They marched towards Kiryat Arba and clashes broke out near the Beit Anoun village. The two sides began hurling stones at each other. IDF and police forces arrived at the scene to end the violence using crowd dispersal means.

During the rally, Rabbi Dov Lior called for a collective punishment to be carried out against the "rioters."

"We have murderous rioters surrounding us, according to the Torah, there is room for collective punishment and the IDF must carry out the punishment against the rioters. There are no innocents in a war," the rabbi said.



in full: http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4127412,00.html

[aranthus]

1. Thankfully, most Israelis and Jews reject this idea. n/t

[aranthus]

2. One other thought.

When Palestinians say that they don't want Israelis/Jews in their state, do you think they mean because of something like this?

[Jefferson23]

3. Are you referring to the recent article that was posted here?

Abbas says 'no' to Jewish state
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4124030,00.html

Imo, this is a red herring Netanyahu came up with to deal with right of return. Making this yet another arbitrary concession
for the Palestinians. Right of return will be negotiated with a number and compensation. When you speak of right of
return we are not talking about full right of return.

To address your greater question, the occupation needs to end that is the main problem, collective punishment has been endured for far too long
by the Palestinians as a result of it. Just take into account the house demolitions, and this is only one example...there is much more.

I hesitate to refer to this man in the OP as a rabbi b/c to me, he does not represent
anything remotely close to what the role of a rabbi means in any way shape or form.

[aranthus]

4. Not that one. This one.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=124x363590

[Jefferson23]

5. Ok, in that thread I participated, somewhat. I had a conversation

with pelsar about the interpretation/veracity of the claims but in respect to another issue that concerned him. You believe he meant this literally? (Palestinian ambassador reiterates call for a Jew-free Palestinian state)


Just an FYI about the The Daily Caller: is a news website based in Washington, D.C., United States, with a focus on politics, original reporting, breaking news, and YouTube videos, founded by journalist and political pundit Tucker Carlson and Neil Patel, former adviser to former Vice President Dick Cheney. The Daily Caller launched on January 11, 2010. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Daily_Caller

[aranthus]

6. I think he said what he said.

Now did he mean "Jews" as in, "we hate jews, and don't want them here" or did he mean, "we don't want the settlers." My guess is both, but more the latter. Let's be honest. At least some of the settlers have given the Palestinians reason to believe that they would not be good citizens of Palestine. I don't fault the Palestinians for wanting them gone. They would be a reminder of conquest and oppression by Israel which the young state doesn't need, and could be considered a threat, not to mention they could be used as an excuse by israel to re-occupy the West Bank (which would be insane for Israel to do, but I can't fault the Palestinians for fearing it). So there are some good reasons to have the settlers move out. That doesn't mean that there isn't also some antisemitism at work.

[Jefferson23]

7. I agree with you about his valid worry regarding the settlers not likely

to be good citizens of Palestine etc. I am not convinced of the latter because he does have legitimate concerns and they need to
address them. I mean, can you imagine the undertaking of all this? So the Israeli's who reject Palestinian citizenship should leave, no?

I honestly think he is trying to minimize conflicts, meaning..they will have more than enough on their plate as it is for a new state.

[aranthus]

8. Removing the settlers would remove the conflict, but

the question is what is the source of the conflict? The answer is that it comes from many places. Some because of settler attitudes, some because of the situation, some because of Arab chauvanism.

[Jefferson23]

9. I suppose one could dissect all variables, but best to end the occupation now, work for

something much better.

[aranthus]

10. I agree.

I think that if Israel waits to resolve all of the relevant issues (right of return, for example) before withdrawing, that it will never withdraw.