The New York Times and Israel

[shira]

I've been reading the Times pretty much every single day since I was ten-years-old. That's more than a half-century by now. Along the way, I've been informed, inspired, and occasionally infuriated.

This week, there was cause for infuriation.

First, it came on Monday, in the form of four photographs that appeared on the first page (p. A4) of the International section. The largest of the four, 6 x 9 inches, was at the top of the page and immediately caught the reader's attention. It was a poignant picture of a little girl leaning against a largely empty wall and staring upward, as the caption explained, to a small picture of her grandfather. Walid Aqel, 48, was to be among those Palestinian prisoners released in the exchange for Gilad Shalit, the Israeli soldier kidnapped by Hamas in 2006 and held incommunicado until his release this week.

The paper failed to mention, in the caption or elsewhere, that Aqel was a founder of Hamas' military wing, had much Israeli blood on his hands, and was sentenced by Israel to life imprisonment. Instead, the overriding impression conveyed was that Aqel was, above all, a grandfather, whose adorable granddaughter was pining for his return from his Israeli captors.

more...
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-harris/the-new-york-times-and-is_b_1024379.html?ref=israel

[leveymg]

1. "How dare NYT portray Palestinians as human beings! They are sub-human beasts with bloody hands"

Do I have to use the sarcasm thingy? (I'll put it in quotes, instead, as that is what David Harris is saying.)

If things were the other way around, a number of the founding figures of the Israeli state could be similarly demonized and dehumanized as "bloody hands" terrorists. I would imagine in an alternative universe a David Harris type working for a pro-Arab organization intoning against any similar NYT photo of the great-grand-daughter of Menachim Begin, and some enraged Arabist posting that screed here.

[shira]

4. You think portraying terrorists as political prisoners of evil Israel is A-okay? n/t

[Name removed]

10. Deleted message

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[vminfla]

16. Terrorists and killers

Most of the individuals released have ties to Hamas, a terrorist organization. Many are avowed killers and are proud of the fact that they killed and maimed innocent people. quite a few have even gone on record as stating they look forward to the opportunity to kill again.

In the US, many of these individuals would never have been given the opportunity to be exchanged for a kidnapped soldier. Not only because the US does not condone negotiating with terrorists, but because many of these individuals would have been given death sentences and they would already be dead. Israel does not have a death sentence.

[vminfla]

2. NYT never misses an opportunity to hold Israel to an impossible stand and give arabs a pass

I do not believe that the NY Times ever printed a correction after they perpetuated the Muhammed al Dura hoax. The hoax, itself, was an incitement to violence and incited a number of murders.

Quite frankly, the grey lady has lost her way. I will not weep when the paper finally fails and goes under.

[azurnoir]

3. yep NYT is so antiIsrael especially that Ethan Bronner guy

and geez during the 2006 Lebanon conflict NYT printed the name of every victim along with their life story on one side of the conflict only and a few pages later would mention BTW about 1,000 or so of 'them' have been killed too

but last month they did this interview with Ehud Olmert where in they actually printed what he said even though it did go with the popular narrative

yep NYT could nearly be the American version of Al Jazeera or even Electric Intifada I tell ya :)

[shira]

5. Do you not see a problem with the NYT article David Harris is referring to? n/t

[azurnoir]

6. which one he refers to two articles is it Bronners or the one questioning Netanyahu's motives?

first an excerpt from Bronner's (who's son currently serves in IDF)

Israel Releases Names of 477 Prisoners to Be Freed in Trade

By ETHAN BRONNER and STEPHEN FARRELL

Israel on Sunday released the names of the first 477 Palestinian prisoners that it will exchange for a soldier held by the militant faction Hamas, and the list revealed why the country has found the trade so wrenching: a majority of the inmates were convicted of manslaughter, attempted murder or intentionally causing death.

Those being freed include the founders of Hamas’s armed wing and militants who kidnapped and killed Israeli soldiers and civilians. A mastermind of the 2001 bombing of a Jerusalem pizzeria that killed 15 will walk out of prison, as will a woman who used the Internet to lure a lovesick Israeli teenager to a Palestinian city and had him murdered.

Most of the prisoners were serving life sentences, some for being involved in attacks like the 2001 bombing of a Tel Aviv nightclub that killed 21 people and a suicide bombing a year later of a Netanya hotel in which 29 died.

The Israeli soldier in the trade, Staff Sgt. Gilad Shalit, was seized by Hamas militants in a cross-border raid more than five years ago and held in Gaza. The exchange of the first batch of prisoners, which includes 27 women, is set for Tuesday. On Sunday, they were bused to central prisons where their health and identities were to be checked. In two months, 550 more prisoners will be released, but their names have not been published.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/17/world/middleeast/israel-releases-names-of-477-prisoners-to-be-freed-in-trade.html?_r=1&ref=middleeast

then the second which is an NYT editorial

Editorial
Gilad Shalit’s Release

We share the joy of Israelis over the release of Sgt. First Class Gilad Shalit, who was held by Hamas for five years. We will leave it to the Israeli people to debate whether the deal — which includes the release of more than 1,000 Palestinian prisoners — will make their country safer or lead to more violence or more abductions of Israeli soldiers or other citizens.

We are already concerned that the deal will further thwart an Israeli-Palestinian peace agreement, the only real guarantee of lasting security for both sides.

Now that Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu of Israel has compromised with Hamas, we fear that to prove his toughness he will be even less willing to make the necessary compromises to restart negotiations. And we fear that the Palestinian president, Mahmoud Abbas, and his Fatah faction, who were cut out of the swap altogether, will be further weakened.

Both Mr. Netanyahu and Hamas were looking for a political win after Mr. Abbas grabbed the international spotlight — and saw his popularity soar — when he asked the United Nations last month to grant his undefined country full membership.

Mr. Netanyahu twisted himself in an ideological knot to get this deal. Only five months ago, he wanted to cut off tax remittances to the Palestinian Authority and urged the United States to halt aid because Mr. Abbas tried to forge a unity government with Hamas, which controls Gaza.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/19/opinion/gilad-shalits-release.html

but to answer your question no I do not have a problem with either article and IMO Harris's HuffPo piece is hyperbolic slop at its finest

[shira]

7. Thanks. I would've been shocked if you did admit to a problem with either article. n/t

[azurnoir]

9. so exactly what problems do find? Is it Netanyahu's motives being questioned or the picture

of a terrorists grandchild or what?

[shira]

11. If you have to ask after having read David Harris, there's no point going on about this. Question...

Here's Illan Pappe from 1999...


“Indeed the struggle is about ideology, not about facts, Who knows what facts are? We try to convince as many people as we can that our interpretation of the facts is the correct one, and we do it because of ideological reasons, not because we are truthseekers,” Pappe said in an interview with the French newspaper Le Soir, Nov. 29, 1999.


What do you think of that? Agree or not? Problematic?

[azurnoir]

12. what was 'unfactual' about either article?

but I do agree that both sides will try to push their version of 'facts'

[shira]

13. What do you think about Pappe's quote from the post before yours? n/t

[azurnoir]

14. I already stated that in the post your replying to but really what are you attempting to do here?

it seems the same as Pappe's statement so once again what was factually incorrect about either article especially seeing as how the second was an opinion piece?

[shira]

8. It's amazing how the media keeps getting away with all this. Makes me wonder...

...what else they're consistently lying about.

It's scary how they create rather than report news. Like Soviet or 3rd world rightwing propaganda. And in a free society no less.

Shameful.

[vminfla]

15. Remember Walter Duranty

Well, the New York Times did once carry water for Josef Stalin and even won a pulitzer for it. ITs reporting has not improved since Duranty.