PM Abbas Slams Israeli Wall as Racist, Title for No Coexistence

[newyorican]

RAMALLAH, West Bank - A day after US President George Bush backed off from overt criticism of the Apartheid Wall Israel is building on occupied Palestinian territory, PNA Prime Minister Mahmud Abbas condemned the wall as racist and a symbol of the lack of coexistence between Israelis and Palestinians, while Bush was declaring Wednesday that his goal of establishing a Palestinian state by 2005 is realistic.

The fence is racist, Abbas said. It represents a title for no coexistence between Israel and the Palestinians.

****

Palestinians see the wall as the exact prescription to render establishing their statehood impossible, as it grabs 58% percent of the West Bank area according to President Arafat, demarcate a de facto border line, and separate tens of thousands of Palestinians from their people as well as from their lands, the sole source of income for them.

British Prime Minister Tony Blair Wednesday agreed with the Palestinian grievances and said that his government had expressed our own misgivings to Israel about the possibility of a "situation where, de facto, the boundaries are changed, because that would mean that a peace settlement is less likely.

http://www.arabia.com/newsfeed/article/english/0,14183,411413,00.html
__________

So all of those "work permits" Israel was touting as a "humanitarian gesture" and a "risk" was really to allow Palestinians temporary access to the annexed land of the "New Greater Israel" side of the fence. What a pathetic farce.

[Resistance]

1. well he got something right at least

the Apartheid Wall is definitely racist, not to mention completely illegal.

So, if that is what Americans wish to spend their money on, who is going to stop them?

[Jim Sagle]

2. Actually it's neither racist nor illegal - and it's not apartheid.

[Resistance]

3. LOL because Jim Sagle says so, right?

[Aidoneus]

4. maybe the "fence" ain't nothin' but shit?

.

[Wonder]

9. LOL

damn you took the words right out of my mouth. Nuthin' much more to add!

[Name removed]

12. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Darranar]

13. Too many negatives!

Please explain your post, and please refrain from the use of the words "nuthin" and "shit",

[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Jim Sagle]

19. What better place?

[Violet_Crumble]

20. There must be somewhere...

Somewhere where bots gather and run themselves ragged with whatever one-line thing has been programmed into them. I'd suggest IRC. Back when I was new to all this internet stuff I wandered into one of those Christian chat-rooms and got into an argument with someone who was spouting bits of bible verse at random. It took me a few minutes to work out it was a bot, and another two minutes to end up getting banned for saying 'shit'. Which is why I'd not suggest a Christian-chat room to yr programmer as a destination for you ;)

Violet...

[Aidoneus]

18. I don't know

There's probably something that I could find disagreeable about miles and miles of shit piled up in de facto-annexed lands ... though I'd give brownie points on the side for acquiring that much fecal matter.

[Equinox]

56. Brownie points? Is that a pun?

;-)

[newyorican]

5. If that is the extent of the defense...

one can assume that Hasbara is asleep at the wheel, or over their heads.

[Darranar]

7. It isn't illegal...

to steal the land of people with no compensation? The other two adjectives are debatable.

[Gimel]

15. Compensation

has been offered and paid. Some have refused to accept it, according to media reports.

:shrug:

[Darranar]

16. It has?

Link, please? Anyway, the land was still destroyed, the Palestinian movement is still being crippled, thousands of Palestinians will still be refugees on their own land due to this, and thewy ould never have sold the land in the first place had they had the choice.

[Wonder]

11. just keep telling yourself that

it is amazing the lies we can get ourselves to believe.

[Herschel]

6. Perhaps the wall can help peace

It is intended to increase security. If it does so, Israel would be more inclined to negotiate. It also creates a poetential boundary, one which does not embolden the terrorists with a reward. It may be a good thing.

[newyorican]

8. Your statement

makes me feel it's hopeless.

[Wonder]

10. that wall ain't nuthin' but

an obscene avoidance of whole people's history, and an obscene affront to truth. Israeli policies speak for themselves. Nuthin' but denial from which nuthin' good will come.

but I have said this before so many ways. don't really matter... transfer is a fait accompli and bush is a flunky. Peace was never the real goal, nuthin' the expected deceit and deception.

[Gimel]

17. Israel must

defend itself from a state of impossible purity (in other owrds). Forbidden to errect barriers to prevent entry and forbidden to enact laws to prevent entry, forbidden to prevent entry for employment, and in fact forbidden to maintain security. All would be well, if there were not terrorism.

[bemildred]

21. Forbidden by who?

[Proudlib]

22. Yes, Take Down The Wall!

How DARE the Israelis disrupt the movement of terrorists? It is the RIGHT of the Palestinian suicide bombers to move freely too and fro without humiliating checkpoints or a fence in their way.

What? You say not all Palestinians are suicide bombers? You say that not all Palestinians support suicide bombers?

Great. I'm happy for them. Their leadership refuses to fight the terrorists and the terrorists still flourish. The Palestinian people can thank their leadership.

I can't help but be amused over the reaction to the wall. What did the Palestinian leadership, which stood by and picked their noses, think the Israeli response would be to a sustained campaign of murder against her civilians by suicide bombers? Did the Palestinian people who cheered the bombers as martyrs and glorified their deeds think that Israel would just do nothing and make it easier for Palestinians to move within Israel?

If the Palestinians and their supporters are so freaking upset about the wall, perhaps they should have thought about that when they held celebatory parades afer the latest suicide bombing or other act of murder against Israel civilians.

The supporters of the Palestinians on this forum are expending a hundred more times the energy condemning a fence than they are blown up discos, pizza parlors and buses full of Israeli civilians. It would have been asking far to much for them to show show half the outrage over those acts of terror against Israelis than they are the building of the fence.

I swear, you'd think the attitude among the Palestinians and their supporters here is that Israel should never be allowed to do anything to defend herself and never respond when suicide and other bombers wage campaigns of murder on her people.

[Gimel]

23. Eloquent

Thanks, Proudlib. Your moniquer is appropriate.

[Wonder]

24. Oh yeah that's beautiful

Israel has never been allowed to defend itself. I have to write that down. I am just curious. How far back does your memory go with this history? Just back to 1993 or 4?

[drdon326]

26. uhhhhhhhh.....thats not what was said.

"I swear, you'd think the attitude among the Palestinians and their supporters here is that Israel should never be allowed to do anything to defend herself and never respond when suicide and other bombers wage campaigns of murder on her people."

[Wonder]

27. Yes! Thank you!

I believe I read the same post as you.

[drdon326]

28. Unfortunately....

you misrepresented what the poster said.

[Wonder]

29. how so?

[drdon326]

30. well.

"I swear, you'd think the attitude among the Palestinians and their supporters here is that Israel SHOULD never be allowed to do anything to defend herself and never respond when suicide and other bombers wage campaigns of murder on her people."

The operative word is SHOULD.

[Wonder]

32. Oh! I see what you mean.

Than it seems you would agree.

Any group who is on the receiving end
of terrorism and deception
SHOULD be allowed to defend
itself from campaigns of expansion,
control and oppression.

[drdon326]

34. LOL

I do agree with this:

Considering Israel has been on on the receiving end
of mindless inhuman terrorism and countless deceptions with its
negotiations with the PA/PLO , they have EVERY right to defend
itself from the campaigns of the palestinian murderous terrorists-
and that includes the anti-intifada wall.

I know I share your view of this.

[Wonder]

35. Wow! this is starting to feel kind of like a

Rotoscope, but of course I am a weird one and probably I am the only one that feels this way. You wanna know what I think?

[drdon326]

36. I think I know.....

But what the hell......let it rip.

[Wonder]

38. nah... if you know

then you can tell me. What do you think I think?

[drdon326]

39. Dude...

I gave you a great opening and you backpedaled ??

[Wonder]

44. I didn't backpeddle. You did

I asked if you wanted to know what I thought, and you said you thought you knew. If you actually did know. That saves us some time. And me some verbiage. I'd have corrected you if you were wrong.

[drdon326]

25. You little devil, you.

great post, PL.

[bemildred]

31. Nice straw man.

You beat the shit out of it, you did.

[Darranar]

41. LOL!

The leadership of Iraq refused to stop attacking the Kurds. I guess we should bomb them shouldn't we? And kill thousands of innocent civilians! But who cares, since after all the Iraqis can then blame their leadership for getting them into it! What a great solution, killing people for what their dictators do! :eyes:

[Herschel]

43. Said well

Pleased to see you here

[drdon326]

46. Herschel

FWIW....Proudlib is a long term survivor of the i/p flame
wars.

Maybe Proudlib is coming out of retirement.

[Herschel]

47. I will hope he has

Proudlib seems a passionate and articulate friend for Israel. Very welcome here.

[Proudlib]

50. I Never Retired

"Maybe Proudlib is coming out of retirement."

I just prefer to pick my spots.

A fence is an inanimate object. What can be built can be taken down. The human lives lost at the hands of the suicide bombers as the result of Israel not having such a fence can never be replaced.

And I thank those who defended my point today while I was away from a computer.

[Classical_Liberal]

54. If they were building on the green line, that might be true

They aren't. They are stealing more land.

[Equinox]

58. Assuming all your other points are valid (which I don't think they are)

Why not build the wall along 1948 or at the very least 1967 borders?

Riddle me this, riddle me that.

[Cassandra]

33. The wall goes up...

and the wall can come down again. You do remember that the Berlin wall was destroyed, and who among us ever thought we'd live to see that? If the wall gets both sides to seriously negotiate (terrorist bombings slow for lack of targets; less need for Israeli security concerns)it will have served a useful purpose and should then be removed. Palestinians who've worked for peace and those on the Israeli left should be given hammers and allowed to destroy the wall. It would probably be very enjoyable.

[newyorican]

37. Once the land is annexed...

Israel will *never* give it back. But you knew that. Trying to imply any other outcome is, at best ignorance and at the worst, mendacity.

[StandWatie]

42. it's not just about annexation

and it's going to set it's own precedent inside the green line, there are going to many, many, many more of these prisons in the future built under security premises.

[Herschel]

45. It is to be negotiated

However, it with strengthen Israel's position.

[newyorican]

48. Israel doesn't want peace

They want the land sans Palestinians. The words may indicate a different point of view, but talk is cheap. Actions speak louder and words with no basis in reality should be ignored at this point.

[Wonder]

49. They know that!

is convinced.

Those who are pretending otherwise are pulling chains.
At least that is the way it seems to me.
It is plain to see with the eye. Those defending Israel
right or wrong. They know it.

[quilp]

57. And the Israeli postition needs "strengthening"?

They hold every card in the pack now! Is their object total domination before "negotiation? "Negotiations" imply some balance of power. Where is the Balance? What do teh Palestinians heve to "negotiate" about? Perhaps they should take place in a railway car.

[StandWatie]

40. why?

Why would anyone want peace after they had already walled up all the Arabs? I'll guarantee the days of the bomber would be over and since that's all Israeli's seem to give a shit about I can't imagine them ever tearing that thing down

[quilp]

52. Negotiate what? Another Palestinian concession?

If the Israelis were serious about peace they would be tearing down those settlements not building fences. When and only when the Israelis get to removing those settlements can they possibly expect the Palestinians crack down on what you call "terrorists". And it would give the Palestinians some internal legitimacy to do so. Right now everyone knows they are powerless to meet the terms of the "road plan". Which may have been the cynical intention from the first.

If the Israelis took a page out of their own book and made the same demands on themselves as they seem very eager to do on the Palestinians there would be no need of this fence. If the Palestinians did not crack down on "terrorist" attacks while the Israelis where genuinely removing those illegal "settlers" they would lose all support. Everyone knows this. There would of course, still be some Palestinian "terrost" attacks. Some of them have an agenda too. But Abbas would be given cover to go after them. Right now he has none.

The Israelis will not do this because the plain truth is they want the West Bank and intend to get it, no matter what the Palestinians do or don't do. Everything else is just BS.

[Classical_Liberal]

53. Israel is never inclined to negotiate.

.

[loquat]

51. Here is the reality!

(What a revolting situation ) Thu Aug 7th 04:02:36 2003

BAGHDAD, Iraq, Aug. 5 — The grandson of the late Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini, the strident Iranian cleric who built his Islamic revolution on a platform of attacking all things American, said today that the overthrow of Saddam Hussein would allow long-awaited freedoms to flourish throughout the region, and if they did not, United States intervention would be welcomed by most Iranians."

"All the countries in the region fear Iraq becoming a free, liberal, democratic state," he said

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/08/06/international/middleeast/06KHOM.html

Quick , the smelling salts.

[Classical_Liberal]

55. What does that have to do with this thread?

?

[Wonder]

59. hmmm perhaps more review is required AWWW WEEE

WANT DA'FUNK DEBUNKED - WE'RE LOOKIN' FOR PROOF
WE DEBUNK THE MYTHS - TO DISCOVER THE TRUTH...


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