Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

IN FAVOR OF ISRAEL...

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Israel/Palestine Donate to DU
 
cantwealljustgetalong Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-03 11:57 PM
Original message
IN FAVOR OF ISRAEL...
by Pilar Rahola

When Hermann Broch, in the bloody madness of the Hitler era, launched this terrible assertion: "The indifference of Europe is the worst of the crimes", he was building something else than just a historical statement. In fact, he was trying to throw a dart to the core of the European conscience, obliging it to look in the mirror in order to meet itself.
The result of this introspective look, if it had been taken place, would have had the same effect as the picture of Dorian Gray: monstrosity was not only far away from the European conscience, but it was born in itself. Europe was indifferent on the surface because it felt guilty within, in that inner abyss where for centuries it had looked after and fed the egg of the snake. Judeophobia was not a historical contingency limited in time and space, but a background culture that could explain the entire history of Europe. Somehow, Europe was founded by the hate of the Jews: they were its most remarkable co-founder. That is why Broch was wrong when he launched this desperate cry: Europe was not indifferent, Europe was the problem. Precisely for that same reason it never did a truly introspection, for historically it had managed to minimize its own guilt. Hitler? Hitler was just the last link of a growing destructive process of the Jewish soul that built the European soul; a destructive process that, in turn, was necessarily a self-destructive process. As Benjamin Netanyahu said, seriously affected, during one of his last official visits to the USA representing Israel, "Europeans wanted to exterminate us once in the past". That is to say, it was Europe that intended to exterminate the Jewish - and in fact it succeeded in exterminating many layers of their hard skin - and it is Europe again which, somehow, pleads for its extermination.
Is this true? Unfortunately I am convinced of it, and it is this belief that makes me write these lines. The conviction of taking part of a European entity that has committed the worst crime against humankind, the industrialized extermination of an entire culture, and despite of it, it has never gotten vaccinated to fight its hate. Europe had gotten rid of the Jewish, but it has not gotten rid of its Judeophobia.

This explains its uncritical Pro-Palestinian hysteria, its ferociously anti-Jewish left, its macabre trivialization of the Shoah - that "death of the human soul" that Lanzmann has turned into a close combat against oneself -, and its pseudo-intellectuals so fond of liberty that they have periodically been fond of all the dictators throughout history: Mao-Tse-Tung, Stalin, Pol Pot, and now Arafat. This explains the new ideological construction of anti-Semitism, adapted as anti-Zionism - and which Bernard Henry Levi considers as the most purified modern version of racism, although its origin had been a classic within the Soviet way of thinking...-, and it also explains the fascination that gets to inflict, among certain European intellectuals, any form of fascism that includes anti-Americanism as one of its totalitarian phobias. Saramago1 would be the best example of what August Bebel typified in 1884 as "the socialism of fools". For one person can be a wonderful writer and still think as an idiot...

Europe is Kafka. And Heine (considered as too Jewish in Europe and too "European" among Jews), and Freud, and Marx, and even Einstein. Nevertheless, as Kafka himself, Europe not only ignores its identity, but it also denies and destroys it, so exiled from itself that has made self-hate a type of reaffirmation. Europe's relationship with the Jewish, natural and weird at the same time, has always been the chronicle of a planned hara-kiri, up to the point of reaching a historical nonsense: Europe cannot be explained without the Jewish, and, at the same time, it has always been explained against the Jews; that is, against itself. Its collective conscience is formed via the different ways that Judeophobia invents, and there it is the origin of it. Just as its pathological anti-Americanism, so disloyal to the thousands of American men who lost their lives trying to rescue it from its deepest miseries, its anti-Semitism is pathological as well. Finally, after over five thousand years of attempts, it has succeeded in destroying its Jewish soul. By doing so, it has degraded so much that, somehow, has died. For this reason, the remains of Europe after the Holocaust are so similar to the esperpentos of Valle-Inclán2: the splendid epic hero is reflected in the concave mirror. Distorted. Stupefied. Lacking all kind of greatness.

I write in favor of Israel because, first of all, I am European and cannot forget the direct responsibility of Europe in everything that affects the Jewish society. Europe is responsible for the creation of the State of Israel. Europe creates the conscience, the need of state as the last hope for survival. Europe writes "Der Jüdenstaat" in 1896 through Theodor Herzl; In 1906 Europe sends Yafo, a young man from the Russian Poland, legendary David Grin, later named Ben Gurion in Hebrew. As sons of the Progrom, the regular dispersion and the destruction of its people, Europe sends thousands of young men to that "land without people to provide it with people without land". Young men who at the beginning wanted to be French, German, Polish, Russian, Hispanic, but who were obliged to be only Jews; Europe created the Jewish nation, making their people the only people in the world intended for total extermination; Europe builds the Ausschwitz terminus; Europe turns the creation of Israel into the very last solution... Can Europe provide itself with an ethical role in the conflict of the Middle East without bearing in mind its radical, monstrous, huge historical immorality? Perhaps that is the key to understanding the attitude of its official way of thinking: with its Manichaeanism and its uncritical fondness for the Palestinian victims, Europe redeems its guilt, it denies it and makes it vanish. It is not about being indifferent, as Broch denounced. Now it is about being the accuser, a nice way to stop being guilty ...

...

http://jerusalem.indymedia.org/print.php?id=118228


Pilar Rahola, Former Member of Parliament of the Spanish Republican Left : "Judeophobia Explains the Pro-Palestinian Hysteria of the European Left"

A Catalan from Barcelona, Pilar Rahola is a highly colorful figure on the Spanish scene. She is known for her feminism, as well as for her frank and direct manner. A former parliamentarian, Pilar Rahola sat in the national legislature in Madrid for eight years, first as part of the republican left, then as the founder of the Independence Party. However, she decided to leave political life just over a year ago to devote more time to her other passions. She has just published "The History of Ada," a metaphor for abandoned children, those child-slaves or children-soldiers one finds all over the world, that is, when they are not turned into human bombs.
She has also decided to step forward to denounce the flagrant imbalance in the handling of information from the Middle East. Her most recent piece, "In Favor of Israel," is to be published in a book in which fifteen Spanish intellectuals, including Jon Juaristi, president of the Cervantes Institute and Gabriel Alviac, a well-known journalist with El Mundo , seek to re-establish the facts.

...

http://www.proche-orient.info/en_xjournal_racism_int.php3?id_article=5283
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
tinnypriv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-03 12:05 AM
Response to Original message
1. Anyone who can say this:
"Palestinian victims are given maximum attention and the Israeli victims are ignored"

Has only a tenueous hold on reality to begin with :)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mmm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-03 01:45 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. You are being very kind
I believe the author is both a liar and an idiot.
Brute strength and ignorance.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Fight_n_back Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-03 04:59 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. Brilliant discourse
your point by point evisceration of the author shows you to be a great man of letters.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Jim Sagle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-13-03 04:40 AM
Response to Reply #2
12. Hey buddy, those M & Ms will rot your teeth.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cantwealljustgetalong Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-13-03 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. thanks for the...
spritzer...:toast:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cantwealljustgetalong Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-13-03 01:22 PM
Response to Reply #1
14. OTOH, her hold on reality is more firmly based than your cheap shot...
...hysterically irrational articles against Israel, such as the report in the Spanish newspaper El Mundo, under the headline "Israel against the Palestinians - three years of walls of shame," that Israeli soldiers carved a Star of David on an Arab's arms, or the reports in the Spanish-language El Pais of an Arab girl who "died of fear" because of the Israel Defense Forces and of an Arab "activist," as it calls him, who killed a nameless Jewish baby near Hebron; newspapers that totally ignore Palestinian terror as the reason for the construction of the fence; an exhibition in Athens devoted to female Palestinian suicide bombers, exhibiting an explosive belt made of macrame.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/370742.html


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tinnypriv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-13-03 04:59 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. Well
I can barely detect the remotest relevance this has to what I posted, but for your information, the carving of the Star of David story came from the Bt'slem newsletter, published in Israel.

Perhaps Israeli Bt'slem is the source of "hysterically irrational articles against Israel", but if so, that would lead to some interesting conclusions.

I'm not interesting in addressing the rest of this nonsense.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cantwealljustgetalong Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-03 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. only nonsense in the theatre of the absurd,...
the Pilar Rahola essay brings to my mind Orwell's essay on antisemitism (btw, the connection is from my perspective, and it is not expected that you detect the remotest relevance)...

...

The subject needs serious investigation.

Only the last point is worth expanding. To study any subject scientifically one needs a detached attitude, which is obviously harder when one’s own interests or emotions are involved. Plenty of people who are quite capable of being objective about sea urchins, say, or the square root of 2, become schizophrenic if they have to think about the sources of their own income. What vitiates nearly all that is written about antisemitism is the assumption in the writer’s mind that HE HIMSELF is immune to it. “Since I know that antisemitism is irrational,” he argues, “it follows that I do not share it.” He thus fails to start his investigation in the one place where he could get hold of some reliable evidence—that is, in his own mind.

...

http://etext.library.adelaide.edu.au/o/o79e/part24.html
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tinnypriv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-03 04:59 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. O-kay
Edited on Mon Dec-15-03 05:02 PM by tinnypriv

Knock yourself out.

I'd prefer if you didn't do it in response to my posts though, because (simply minded fool that I am) I assume the content of such responses will respond to what I said. I know this may be a radical perspective, but there you go.

Nevertheless, if you want a good recent read on the topic, rather than from 50 years ago (from British writers), try 'Debating Judeophobia in 21st Century Britain'.

As far as I know, it is available in the United States.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cantwealljustgetalong Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-03 05:43 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. Ho-boy...
Edited on Mon Dec-15-03 06:00 PM by cantwealljustgetalon

I didn't say that the content of my responses didn't respond to what you said, I said that I did not expect you to detect the relevance since you apparently were not able to earlier...

the Orwell excerpt is timeless, thank you, and, captured the essence of the message that I wanted to impart...

your recommended reading happens to be available on the net...I can post each one of the essays here if you'd like so that you can give us your one-line powerful analysis of who has a hold on reality...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tinnypriv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-03 06:00 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. In response to your edit
Edited on Mon Dec-15-03 06:12 PM by tinnypriv

As far as I know, the entire book is not available, which is the point. The excerpts available are interesting, but not a full picture.

Since it seems you're interested, I suggest picking up the book.

I disagree about Orwell, but I'm not interested in discussing that here.

You could post the essays, but I hardly see what relevance some of them would have to I/P.

Whether a one-line analysis of them is warranted would depend on what you posted, and my own time considerations. Something interesting and worthwhile may require several thousand words to discuss adequately. Or not. As I say, it depends.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cantwealljustgetalong Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-03 06:49 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. sorry,...
I am not interested in your analyses, short or long, here or there...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tinnypriv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-03 09:41 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. I'm hurt
No, really.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cantwealljustgetalong Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-03 10:08 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. there, there...

did you fall off the high horsey and hurt yourself?...

here's a tissue...go blow your nose...


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tinnypriv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-03 11:05 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. Careful
Edited on Mon Dec-15-03 11:09 PM by tinnypriv

You're getting awfully close to more one-line answers yourself.

:loveya:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cantwealljustgetalong Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-16-03 09:24 AM
Response to Reply #24
25. but,...
that makes it easier for you to detect the remotest relevances...

:smoke:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Gimel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-03 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #1
17. Within the realm
Edited on Mon Dec-15-03 02:46 PM by Gimel
of leftist literature, I think she is right. There are hundreds of articles on the net that follow that rule, many have been posted here.

Mention of suicide attacks is considered off-topic.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
liberalhistorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-16-03 10:51 AM
Response to Reply #1
26. Amen!
I'd say it's more than the other way around, the other way around is THE reality! That's the most ridiculous statement I've heard yet in this whole mess. Israel can pretty much get away with anything it wants to, including the murder of American citizens trying to stop its destruction of an entire Palestinian village guilty of nothing but living on the land wanted by the illegal settlements.

And I AM in favor of the existence and survival of Israel. I'm just in firm disagreement with many of its current leaders and policies, not the least of which is the refusal to recognize the damage caused by the illegal settlements (destroying Palestinian villages to gain their land and water resources, etc.) and its refusal to disband them, and its treatment of Palestinian citizens in the occupied territories.

David Ben-Gurion, the first Prime Minister of Israel and one of its founders in 1948, warned against just what they're doing now, that they've taken too much land (the occupied territories) and bitten off more than they could chew as a nation, and predicted the consequences of such actions, which turned out to be exactly what's happening now.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Gimel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-16-03 11:48 AM
Response to Reply #26
27. Many Americans
Many american citizens have been murdered by Hamas. Citizens of GB and France, the Philippines, China and the Ukraine among other nationals. Why aren't you outraged?

To determine that "hero Corrie" was "trying to stop its destruction of an entire Palestinian village guilty of nothing but living on the land wanted by the illegal settlements" is to credit her no with not only stopping the destruction of an unoccupied grove and an arms smuggling ring, but creates the whole Judea and Samaris on that one spot. No. There never was an Israeli settlement there, nor was one planned. You are mistaken.

Not only that, there are there no Israeli settlements in the vicinity of the village Racheal Corrie was visiting.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
drdon326 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-17-03 02:07 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. Gimel...
heres a website you will find interesting:

http://avpv.tripod.com/AmericanVictims.html

and it only goes up to july,2002
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Gimel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-03 03:55 AM
Response to Original message
3. An important analysis
This voice has an urgency compelling Europeans to examine their psyche.

Can Europe provide itself with an ethical role in the conflict of the Middle East without bearing in mind its radical, monstrous, huge historical immorality? Perhaps that is the key to understanding the attitude of its official way of thinking: with its Manichaeanism and its uncritical fondness for the Palestinian victims, Europe redeems its guilt, it denies it and makes it vanish. It is not about being indifferent, as Broch denounced. Now it is about being the accuser, a nice way to stop being guilty ...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
drdon326 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-03 06:04 AM
Response to Original message
5. Wow...great article
where do i start....

"By the way, and with the permission of Joan Culla, who used this reasoning in one of his articles: if the 52 Palestinian victims of Jenin (counted by a not suspecting NGO as is Human Rights Wath), plus the over 23 Israeli victims - or are they not important? - are comparable to the Holocaust, what can the nearly half a million people killed during the bloody Islamic process of Sudan, or the 20,000 victims of the revolts in the city of Hama in Syria by Hafed the Assad; or the 100,000 victims whose macabre responsible is the Argelian Islamic terrorism be compared to? And, would it not be compared to the regular destruction of Christian Lebanese settlements at the hands of Palestinian factions? Would it not be compared to the slaughter of Palestinians that the good Hussein of Jordania carried out in his particular black September?

However, all this seems unimportant for a left that, bearing in mind data, does not get indignant with the Muslim victims, with its legendary Third-World aureole so appreciated by these reactionary liberals, but only with those Muslim victims hit by Israeli bullets, in the middle of a conflict that in fact is a war. That is to say, the same left who is unable to remember that the communists were the main responsible for the death of communists throughout history, does not show any interest in knowing that Palestinians have killed more Palestinians than the Arabs themselves."

and

"Because I truly dislike the blindness of a left, my left, which is still based on its most retrograde habits, and which, led by its Judeophobia - never admitted but still perfectly proved - is unable to foresee the enormous danger of the new face of totalitarianism: Islamic fundamentalism."

and


". Or anti-Zionism, an umbrella used to comfortably protect old anti-Semitism. Or... That is the reason why I write in favor of Israel, because a left that does not follow propaganda must exist, a left that embraces causes without killing others', a left that loves Palestine because it also understands and loves Israel. A left, in any case, that when reading about 'refugees camps in Jenin' - refugees? In Jenin? - starts laughing instead of crying hurt by the betrayal that information suffers in the hands of reporters."


Just a great article.


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pistoff democrat Donating Member (733 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-03 06:45 AM
Response to Original message
6. Best post in days!
"This explains its uncritical Pro-Palestinian hysteria, its ferociously anti-Jewish left, its macabre trivialization of the Shoah - that "death of the human soul" that Lanzmann has turned into a close combat against oneself -, and its pseudo-intellectuals so fond of liberty that they have periodically been fond of all the dictators throughout history: Mao-Tse-Tung, Stalin, Pol Pot, and now Arafat. This explains the new ideological construction of anti-Semitism, adapted as anti-Zionism - and which Bernard Henry Levi considers as the most purified modern version of racism, although its origin had been a classic within the Soviet way of thinking...-, and it also explains the fascination that gets to inflict, among certain European intellectuals, any form of fascism that includes anti-Americanism as one of its totalitarian phobias. Saramago1 would be the best example of what August Bebel typified in 1884 as "the socialism of fools". For one person can be a wonderful writer and still think as an idiot..."



"The trivialization of the Shoah is part of this same process of extermination. And regarding this subject we must be very clear: the perverse use of the memory of the Holocaust as a point of view in the conflict of the Middle East is a radical degradation of morality, and, undoubtedly, it is the spearhead of a deeply reactionary way of thinking. The irony that this way of thinking succeeds, especially among liberal intellectuals, lefty leaders and human rights organizations, is not surprising. After all, this irony historically defines a "so truthful" left that has sometimes been the executor arm of the most reactionary postulates. Since these movements are well settled on what Glucksmann calls "the black holes" of our collective memory - Vichy, the war of Argelia, the Soviet Gulag, the prosecutions against the Jews - they rewrite history as to tend to deny it. And only from this denial, from an overwhelming denial of the European conscience, the Holocaust can be used as a throwing weapon against Israel. This has got nothing to do with belonging to the Hasbara, or with being fond of the principles of information beyond propaganda, or with wishing to be reporters of the truth and not of the hate. It has got to do, above all, with respecting the victims of the industrialized crime. For someone must tell all the Saramagos in the world that trivializing the victims of the Shoah is like killing them again. As somebody said once, historical rigor is not only a scientist requirement; in the face of the holocaust it is a moral requirement.

However, all this seems unimportant for a left that, bearing in mind data, does not get indignant with the Muslim victims, with its legendary Third-World aureole so appreciated by these reactionary liberals, but only with those Muslim victims hit by Israeli bullets, in the middle of a conflict that in fact is a war. That is to say, the same left who is unable to remember that the communists were the main responsible for the death of communists throughout history, does not show any interest in knowing that Palestinians have killed more Palestinians than the Arabs themselves."

(yes, the history is something so overlooked by veyr many on the left when discussing the present; although not by all of us...just fabulous paragraphs!



"Am Israel jai be-Israel" ("The people of Israel live in Israel"). It was on the 14th of May 1948 and this statement, uttered by Ben Gurion, closed a cycle of thousands of years full of dispersion, prosecution, death, and resistance. Nevertheless, nothing kept Palestinian people from living as a neighbor. People who arrived massively in the deserts of Judea precisely because Jewish did... Over 50 years later, Palestinians have not yet understood the fact that Israel is entitled to exist. However, and despite the camaraderie they receive from their European allies, their only chance to win is by understanding..."


Thank you so very much for this well-thought out and well-written article! Very much appreciated...


:loveya:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
meti57b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-03 08:32 AM
Response to Original message
7. Excellent article! Thank you for posting it!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-03 09:52 AM
Response to Original message
8. What a bizarre article
It seems to be an argument against some people from the far left who don't think the state of Israel should exist at all. While I'm sure such people do exist, their influence on European politics is minute. Why it should be of interest here is difficult to say.

It appears to lose some things in translation - for instance, numerical accuracy ('after over five thousand years of attempts, it has succeeded in destroying its Jewish soul' - difficult, since Judaism itself hasn't existed for 5 thousand years; and what is now called Europe had no contact with Judaism at all until just over 2000 years ago).

Her reading of European history is rubbish. The irony of the remark 'Somehow, Europe was founded by the hate of the Jews: they were its most remarkable co-founder' is that if you substitute 'Muslims' for 'Jews', you have a fairly accurate analysis. Europe has been defined by such events as the Battle of Tours, when the Arab advance into modern-day France was stopped, leading eventually to the creation of the Holy Roman Empire; the wars against the Arabs in Spain and the Ottoman Turks in south-eastern Europe; and above all, the Crusades, when several European nations united in an agressive war against Islam, but ended up gaining much in knowledge that led to the Renaissance, and European ability to colonise much of the rest of the world.

While Christendom's treatment of Jews through this time was pretty appalling, it was in no way a defining characteristic. The only time Judaism has been central to Europe is in the last hundred years or so.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-03 10:56 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. I think the translation sucks.
I'd like to have more context too, I suspect we don't
get half of what she's on about.

I guess Palestine IndyMedia can be a "credible source" when it's
saying something we agree with, eh? It's interesting they put
this up.

It reminds me of some French intellectual rambles I've read.

Your points about Her grip on History are well taken.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
drdon326 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-03 11:24 AM
Response to Original message
10. Maybe theyre learning....
German Police Raid Islamic Organization

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=518&ncid=732&e=2&u=/ap/20031211/ap_on_re_eu/germany_islamic_extremists

Police raided the home of an Islamic militant as part of a nationwide sweep Thursday against members of his banned organization, seizing weapons and making five arrests during searches of nearly 1,200 homes.

The pre-dawn operation involved 5,500 officers and targeted sympathizers of Caliphate State, a group seeking the overthrow of Turkey's secular government, the Federal Criminal Office said. Germany outlawed the organization in the wake of the Sept. 11 attacks.

Authorities searched the Cologne home of Muhammed Metin Kaplan, the group's founder. Kaplan was home at the time, but police did not arrest him. Witnesses said officers seized a computer and documents.

Interior Minister Otto Schily said Caliphate State members were violating the German government's December 2001 order disbanding the group, and that the raids were aimed mainly at subscribers of the organization's underground newsletter.

Schily, Germany's top security official, has described Caliphate State, which calls for establishing an Islamic state in Turkey, as a breeding ground for Islamic terrorists.

...................................................................

there's a name you dont hear everyday....Muhammed Metin Kaplan


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pistoff democrat Donating Member (733 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-03 02:07 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. Maybe Muhammed
had even more problems with his Dad than with the Jooooos:

from the article: "Kaplan took over Caliphate State from his father, Cemaleddin, who died in 1995. Cemaleddin fled Turkey after a 1980 military coup and founded the group in 1984 after gaining political refugee status in Germany with his family."


Hey, Don, did you ever see "The Infiltrator"? HBO has been re-running it recently at weird hours of the night. It's a must-see, trust me!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Thu Dec 26th 2024, 10:21 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Israel/Palestine Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC