Ga. lawmakers set for visit to Israel (including Denise Majette)

[Resistance]

http://www.ajc.com/news/content/news/0803/01israel.html

Democratic Reps. David Scott, Denise Majette and Jim Marshall are among 20 Democratic House members leaving Saturday for a nine-day trip hosted by House Minority Whip Steny Hoyer of Maryland. The trip is being paid for by the American Israel Education Foundation, an arm of the American Israel Public Affairs Committee, or AIPAC.

AIPAC is a pro-Israel advocacy organization that is frequently involved in Washington politics. AIPAC's campaign donations last year helped Majette unseat her incumbent opponent, Cynthia McKinney, who had expressed sympathy for Palestinian nationalists.

Scott said he also hopes to spend some time at sites in Bethlehem and other biblical sites.

Said Majette, "My trip to Israel . . . will allow me to better understand the Middle East and the conflict between the Palestinians and the Israelis. Firsthand knowledge of any situation is the best kind, and I am eager to gain a deeper perspective of the history and prospects for peace in the region."

[StandWatie]

1. gee, wonder what she's gonna decide...

:eyes:

[Resistance]

2. let's see here ....

AIPAC got McKinney ousted and installed a more suitable puppet (Majette), and now they're sending her on a trip to "learn" about Israel and the Middle East. Does anyone wonder why the US is full of ignorant politicians who look the other way in the case of Israel's aggression and ethnic cleansing?

[GabysPoppy]

3. I wish even more people would go to get a first hand look

I would even suggest it for posters here.

An eyewitness view is much better than the biased sites posted here.

[Violet_Crumble]

9. Thanks for the suggestion...

I hope everyone keeps in mind that yr idea that an eyewitness view being much better doesn't extend to eyewitness views that don't fall in line with yr own rigid and biased views on this issue...

Violet...

[Herschel]

4. Cynthia McKinney is an anti-semite

Her removal was welcome news.

[StandWatie]

5. is there anyone who isn't?

You know eventually this stuff starts sounding like Tony Soprano sitting around his dinner table telling his kids that the only reason the FBI is after him is because he is Italian and he sounds like he believes it.

[jos]

6. Blood libel

Her father, I believe, made anti-semitic comments, but I challenge you to post a link to where Cynthia made such a comment.

[GabysPoppy]

7. You are absolutely correct

It was most definately her father that made the remark.

Speaking of links, would you happen to have the one where Cynthia said that she disagreed with her father's remarks? I am sure she would not like to be associated with those remarks.

[Violet_Crumble]

8. Judging people on their parents views...

I don't know this woman from a bar of soap, but to act as though she has an obligation to publicly take a stance against her fathers comments or else be judged as wanting to be associated with those remarks is, well, kind of incredibly lame, wouldn't you agree? Try judging people on what they think and say and not tarring them by association with the same brush other family members are tarred with. None of us are responsible for what our parents say and do...

Violet...

[GabysPoppy]

10. I don't know this woman from a bar of soap,

http://slate.msn.com/?id=2064530

Here's your chance to meet her.

"She employed a similar strategy in '96 when her father repeatedly called her opponent a "racist Jew." (When asked about his comments by the New York Times, he replied, "He is a racist Jew, that's what he is, isn't he?") After ignoring his comments for a week, she distanced herself from them and "fired" him from her campaign, though he had no formal role."

snip

I am not sure if this the "only" anti-semitic remark by her father or even the remark noted above. But you might notice that he was at least an "unofficial" person connected with her team.

So as long as she is a political figure and her father's role is somewhat more than parental in nature, she is to be judged by not only his remarks but her response to them.

[Violet_Crumble]

11. She fired him...

I read it, even though it appeared to be nothing but a whining smear-job She distanced herself from the remarks and then fired him. What else do you want? For her to publicly execute him? Somehow I don't think anything she would have done would make you happy as you seem convinced that it's quite okay to judge someone on the sins of their parents. Maybe politics work like that in the US, but more enlightened folk actually vote for a politician, not the entire fucking family. Just another reason why I've got so much contempt for US politics in general...

Just a gut feeling, but I suppose any US politician who doesn't toe their parties lines of blind support for whatever Israel does to the Palestinians is prone to having copious amounts of shit dumped on them?


Violet...

[Darranar]

12. I haven't yet seen AIPAC...

"dumping shit" on Dennis Kucinich yet, but maybe that's because they don't believe he has a chance in the primaries.

[Violet_Crumble]

13. I haven't seen it either...

But then again I don't look at the AIPAC site if they have one and their doings don't hit the news here at all. Does Kucinich have a position on the I/P conflict? I did one of those little online thingys to find which candidate I'm most compatible to and he came out on top of my list....

Violet...

[Darranar]

14. He does...

http://www.kucinich.net/issues/issue_middleeast.htm

I declare my support for the State of Israel and for the security of the Israeli people. I also declare my support for a Palestinian state and for the security of the Palestinian people. So I will vote present today because I believe the security of Israel requires the security of the Palestinians.

I will vote present because I believe the United States can do better through honest brokering, and a principled commitment to peaceful coexistence.

Today, we are missing an opportunity to lead people of the Middle East toward a secure and stable future together. This resolution equates Israel's dilemma, which is the outcome of the Palestinian's struggle for self-determination, with the United States' campaign against the criminal organization, Al Queda.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Here around DC, the Washington Jewish Week generally covers AIPAC's actions. Yah, I know that it's biased.

[Violet_Crumble]

15. Thanks for posting that link...

I couldn't agree more with what he said there, and he got it spot on about the security of Israel needing the security of the Palestinians. I've been thinking for a while now that Israel is descending into a path of eventual self-destruction if a solution to this conflict that gives security to both isn't found...

Violet...

[Darranar]

16. Or perhaps MAD will be the result...

if both sides don't make real effort for the peace process.

[StandWatie]

22. he is a white man

AIPAC only goes after women and blacks.

[GabysPoppy]

17. This is the remark referenced above

“The Jews, J-E-W-S,” is who McKinney’s now also-ousted state legislator father Billy blamed for his daughter’s loss to a more moderate African-American woman, Denise Majette."

It was made after the 2002 Election.

So you have to think that the apology of his in 1996 might not have been sincere. If you are having trouble seeing the pattern, please have someone else help you.

As for this comment:

"Just a gut feeling, but I suppose any US politician who doesn't toe their parties lines of blind support for whatever Israel does to the Palestinians is prone to having copious amounts of shit dumped on them?"

It is remarkedly ignorant of US Politics. Free speech is encouraged except for anti (Racial, Ethnic or Religious) blather here in the US and on DU. If this too is not understood, once again ask someone else for assistance.

[Violet_Crumble]

72. What's that got to do with her??

btw, that quote you just used didn't come from the article you posted for me to have a look at. Was he working for her when he made that second comment? If not, big fucking whoopie-doo. He's a fucking moron, but he's not her, despite yr constant attempts to tar her with the same brush. You want to tar someone as anti-semitic, then you have to do much better than trotting out quotes from family members. What yr doing logically leads to tarring me as being bigoted against the Japanese because my grandfather who was a WWII veteran used to make the most bigoted and hateful tirades against the Japanese right up to his dying day, and because he was my grandfather I never said a word...

As for yr last comment, I wasn't making any sort of comment on the right of free speech. I was talking about the time-honoured political tradition of piling copious amounts of shit on those who don't follow the party line. If this is too hard to understand, maybe a look at the real world, or a basic study of politics would be of assistance?

Violet...

[IndianaGreen]

21. Rightwing smear used in political campaign to unseat McKinney

This was the Republican mantra, and it was an often repeated Republican campaign slogans!

Are you responsible for what your father said or did? No, and neither is Cynthia McKinney!

On edit: I thought I was replying to the racist smear by Herschel.

[IndianaGreen]

20. deleted by poster

I posted an answer to the wrong poster!

[IndianaGreen]

19. LIE! Rightwing SMEAR!

Don't post rightwing slogans without proof!

Who do you think you are, Tom DeLay?

[Herschel]

23. Cynthia McKinney

was very slow to condemn her father's anti-semitic comments. She also refused to vote for a congressional resolution condemning the anti-Semitic speeches of Farrakhan gang member Khalid Muhammad. Your comments accusing me of racism or a Delay-type are unwarranted and an apology would be appreciated.

[Darranar]

24. Thanks for bringing this to my attention, Herschel...

The problem is that some extremely pro-Israel sites label anyone who criticizes Israel as an anti-semite, so generally people should beware of that accusation when no evindence is brought to bear.

[Herschel]

25. The charge of anti-semitism

may be misused on occasion. This does not alter the fact McKinney is anti-semitic.

[Darranar]

26. Agreed

n/t

[Name removed]

27. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Darranar]

28. Herschel raises good points...

She also refused to vote for a congressional resolution condemning the anti-Semitic speeches of Farrakhan gang member Khalid Muhammad.

Explain that, Mr. Green.

[StandWatie]

31. I don't think she ever voted to condemn anyone

based on things they said, she said it was a freedom of speech issue and that "condemning" things isn't congress job.

[Name removed]

29. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[IndianaGreen]

30. This is not a goddammed I/P issue, this is a US politics issue!

This is about how the political process was subverted in Georgia by the rightwing (you know, those motherfuckers that love George W. Bush), to bring a large number of WHITE Republican voters to crossover in the Democratic primary to topple an outspoken liberal from office and replace her with a female Clarence Thomas.

[Name removed]

34. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Herschel]

33. Mind yourself

Should we forgive a bigot because she has some views where we agree? I think you know the answer.

[IndianaGreen]

36. Cynthia McKinney is not a bigot

Your saying so ad nauseum does not make it so!

If you are so fucking worried about anti-Semitism, why don't you raise the alarm bells about Mel Gibson's new movie based on the Gospel accounts of Jesus arrest, trial, and execution. I did!

On edit: Here is the link to the Mel Gibson discussion:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=117372&mesg_id=117372

[IndianaGreen]

37. If you truly worry about anti-Semitism, worry about this...

ADL Statement on Mel Gibson's 'The Passion'

New York, NY, June 24, 2003 ... Throughout history Christian dramatizations of the passion, i.e. the crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus, have fomented anti-Semitic attitudes and violence against the Jewish people. During the past forty years the Roman Catholic and most Protestant churches have issued pastoral and scholarly documents that interpret the death and resurrection of Jesus in their historical and theological contexts. These churches repudiate the teachings that gave rise to Christian accusations that Jews were "Christ killers." They make clear that correct Christian readings and applications of the New Testament must avoid provoking or reinforcing anti-Semitic attitudes and behavior.

<snip>

Based upon the scholars' analysis of the screenplay, ADL has serious concerns regarding the Mr. Gibson's "The Passion" and asks:

• Will the final version of The Passion continue to portray Jews as blood-thirsty, sadistic and money-hungry enemies of Jesus?
• Will it correct the unambiguous depiction of Jews as the ones responsible for the suffering and crucifixion of Jesus? Will it show the power of the rule of imperial Rome-including its frequent use of crucifixion-in first-century Palestine?
• Will the film reject exploiting New Testament passages selectively to weave a narrative that does injustice to the gospels, that oversimplifies history, and that is hostile to Jews and Judaism?
• Will it live up to its promise "to tell the truth?" To do so, the final product must rid itself of fictitious non-scriptural elements (e.g. the high priest's control of Pontius Pilate, the cross built in the Temple at the direction of Jewish religious officials, excessive violence, Jews physically abusing Jesus before the crucifixion, Jews paying "blood money" for the crucifixion), all of which form an inescapably negative picture of Jewish society and leadership.
• Will it portray Jews and the Temple as the locus of evil?

http://www.adl.org/presrele/mise_00/4275_00.asp

[Herschel]

38. I agree with this statement

However, it will not prevent me from speaking out on Cynthia's McKinney's anti-semitism.

[IndianaGreen]

40. I disagree in the strongest terms possible with your characterization...

I disagree in the strongest terms possible with your characterization of Cynthia McKinney as an anti-Semite, and I view your repeated efforts to smear McKinney with the often-abuse anti-Semite label with extreme suspicion as to your motives for posting such comments.

I will not waste any more broadband on this topic with the likes of you!

May Denise Majette go down in flames to her political grave in 2004!

[Lithos]

55. Herschel

I don't think you've made a case for Cynthia McKinney being anti-semitic as you have not explored any of her motivation behind her actions.

The fact that she did not stand up fast enough to denounce her father seems more in line with supporting her father right or wrong. This is never an easy decision for people to make, but the fact is she did denounce her father's statements. The second one where she did not censor the Farrakhan aide has been explained as her feeling that it was not Congress' role to debate someone's opinion whether it is hate filled or not.


L-

[Herschel]

66. Actions often speak for themselves

Regardless of our not knowing "motivations" for them. You may rationalize her actions as loyalty to her father or adhering to other principles. However, there is a history of tension between her and the Jewish community. That is my opinion.

[Lithos]

69. A history of tension?

I never thought there was much tension until she wrote the letter to Saudi Prince Talal following his offer of $10mm following 9/11. It was this letter that formed the basis of Bruce Bialosky, president of the Republican Jewish Coalition of Los Angeles accusations of treason and anti-semitism. Part of the reason was the backlash against her for her comments against Bush and her suggestion to rethink US foreign policy in the ME.

[Violet_Crumble]

73. This letter...

What was in the letter? Was there anything anti-semitic in it and is it available somewhere online?

btw, I think loyalty to a family member is a pretty big thing when it comes to family members saying and doing things that we don't agree with. Though from what I read in the article Gabyspoppy gave me a link to, I thought a week was reasonably quick when it came to firing her father. Hell, if it had happened over here, it probably would have taken months for something to happen :)

Violet...

[Herschel]

82. Perhaps it was part of the reason

And I have no doubt Republicans would point out a Democratic canidate is anti-semitic. More reason to steer clear of this woman.

[Tinoire]

90. There was a lot of tension: McKinneys and the Atl. Jewish community

Excellent article that should be read in its entirety- from the Atlanta Jewish Times: It clearly shows that BOTH Cynthia AND her father are victims of a vicious smear campaign- let no doubt by the AIPAC and their excellent Department of Propaganda.
------------------------------------------------

In 1981, Billy McKinney made a difficult decision. It was a mayoral election year in the city of Atlanta, and the race was shaping up as a showdown between Andrew Young and Sidney Marcus, one of the city's best-known Jewish leaders. McKinney threw his support behind fellow state legislator Marcus, and became co-chairman of the Marcus campaign.((Is that an anti-Semite!?)) Throughout his public career McKinney had always delighted in taking contrarian positions. In this case he was excoriated for choosing Marcus over Young. McKinney was one of the black Marcus supporters whom Maynard Jackson sneeringly referred to as "shuffling, grinning Negroes." Marcus lost the race, but 18 years later, McKinney's relationships with some local black leaders remains strained because of the choice he made in that long-ago mayor's contest. Atlanta businessman Jules Stine remembers the story well. "Billy was very much out front in the Marcus campaign," Stine told the Atlanta Jewish Times. "A black man taking on Andy Young!"

<snip>

A troubled relationship
A father who risked the scorn of his own community to back a Jewish candidate for mayor. A most-trusted adviser who is a Jew. These are hardly the credentials that would suggest McKinney has a troubled relationship with many Atlanta Jews. And yet even those closest to her admit that she does.

<snip>

In the midst of this flurry of activity, Billy McKinney, who was serving as his daughter's campaign manager, was accused of taking an anti-Semitic swipe at Mitnick in a community forum at Ebenezer Baptist Church. He called Mitnick "a racist Jew," a remark he recently said he made out of frustration because Mitnick was trying to tie his daughter to notorious anti-Semite and Nation of Islam leader Louis Farrakhan. But McKinney was slow to apologize, and his daughter was equally slow to take action to reprimand him. (She eventually fired him from the campaign.) The incident sent shock waves through the Jewish community and cast Shapiro's fund-raiser in a new, controversial light.

<snip>

Tensions with AIPAC
Frank blames the tenuous relationship between McKinney and Atlanta Jews on the Mitnick-McKinney contest. "It was a terrible election that left scars that aren't healing." But the first signs of estrangement pre-date the stormy 1996 campaign.
In 1992, in her first race for Congress in what was then Georgia's 11th District, McKinney made it clear she wouldn't be beholden to the American-Israeli Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC). Stine said McKinney thought AIPAC was heavy-handed in demanding her endorsement of their positions in return for its support. McKinney refused to play ball.
"Here was a young woman who had not yet been elected to Congress and AIPAC was saying 'This is our point of view, sign off on this.' Cynthia being Cynthia was not going to do that. Had it been a Catholic group, had it been the Pope, she wasn't going to do this. I think Cynthia was taken aback by the aggressiveness that is how AIPAC does business."
<snip>

http://www.atljewishtimes.com/archives/1999/110599cs.htm

[jos]

59. Blood Libel part II

Again, you provide no statement that would indicate that she is. She probably voted against the resolution on the ground that Muhammed was singled out by Congress, I'm sure at the prodding of AIPAC, while white racists like David Duke were not.

If that is your only proof, then you should discontinue this smear.

[Herschel]

67. Again there is rationalizing

Excuses of being singled out or adversity to AIPAC pressure are just that - excuses. My opinion stands.

[Tinoire]

93. Not kow-towing to AIPAC is all it takes to be anti-Semite?!

Cynthia McKinney went down because she would not play AIPAC's game and instead chose to do her job and represent the overwhelming Black majority instead of AIPAC.

Your smear that she's an anti-Semite is OVER the top!

----------------------------------------

"Pretty good" voting record
Emotions aside, what about her voting record?
Despite her strained relationship with AIPAC, her votes on their issues rates a "pretty good" from Mark Moskowitz, AIPAC regional director in Atlanta. But for two years now, McKinney has voted in favor of amendments to reduce U.S. aid to Israel. Last year, the amendment called for some of the funding earmarked for Israel to be redirected to African nations, and so to some, McKinney's vote was an understandable decision by a black congresswoman with a burning interest in helping Africa. This year, though, she was one of just 35 House members who voted for the proposed $30 million reduction (from a total package of $2.88 billion); and this time, the proposal did not call for redirecting the money anywhere. "The vote disturbed us," said Moskowitz. "We wondered if she was letting us see her true colors."
Moskowitz adds that AIPAC "still isn't 100 percent sure what her feelings about Israel are because she doesn't speak on it. She stays pretty quiet on the issue."
Jay Kaiman, southeast director of the Anti-Defamation League, has a
similarly vague grasp of McKinney's position on the ADL's agenda. "She
hasn't made our issues a priority. On the other hand, I don't think she's ever taken any stand that's been offensive to us on hate crimes or religious protection."
The simple fact is that McKinney doesn't put so-called Jewish issues at the top of her agenda. She is deeply involved in helping emerging African nations. She fights for black causes and women's rights. And truth be known, she doesn't need Jewish votes to keep her seat - the 4th District is just 4 percent Jewish - as long as she maintains her strong coalition of women and African American voters.

<snip>

http://www.atljewishtimes.com/archives/1999/110599cs.htm

[Tinoire]

99. Darranar - Please see Post 90 & 93 & this

<snip>

McKinney and Hilliard

What happened in Georgia's 4th CD in the August 10, 2002 primary has significance far beyond. It is a textbook case of divisive tactics utilized by the ultra-right to subvert democracy. It is an example of racism in politics and targeting of the most outspoken, especially African American elected officials. The implications reach beyond the 2002 elections.

<snip>

A warning was delivered in the defeat of Rep. Earl Hilliard, a civil rights activist, in Alabama's 7th district primary, by Arturo Davis, a Harvard-educated lawyer. Hilliard was targeted by right-wing Zionist forces for siding with the Palestinians. Davis was aided with fundraising by the American-Israel Political Action Committee (AIPAC). Concerns were immediately expressed that the defeat of Hilliard would be used as a rallying cry to target other Black candidates who support the establishment of a Palestinian state.

<snip>

Rep. McKinney was one of the first in Congress to appeal for a thorough investigation into the events leading up to and surrounding the September 11 terrorist attack. She opposed the war on Iraq. She spoke out against civil rights violations at the Lockheed Martin plant in Marietta, GA. And she emphasized the issue of increasing resources for voting rights in the underserved majority Black precincts of the 4th CD.

<snip>

Divisive Tactics

Middle East Issue

From the start of this election cycle, McKinney and Hilliard were targeted as "unfriendly to Israel". Right-wing Zionist groups raised significant funds.

<snip>

Jews for Peace organizations in Atlanta and nationally, and Tikkun Magazine rallied to McKinney, and indicated that her position on the Middle East coincided with theirs. Rabbi Michael Lerner exclaimed "For lawmakers feeling pressure to bow to AIPAC, the McKinney race would be a bellwether for feeling safe to raise criticisms of Israel. Pro-Sharon forces have targeted this African American Democrat for defeat due to her strong stance in favor of both Israel and Palestine."

<snip>

http://www.cpusa.org/article/articleview/514/1/8/

Long, long article but well worth the read. It's the best analysis of the problem that I've seen and everything they said was based on facts published in a myriad of US papers. Most of those are in the DU archives.

[Darranar]

100. Thanks, Tinoire...

I made my decision too early. It seems to me that because she was a bit more moderate in the Israeli/Palestinian situation, AIPAC smeared her.

Right-wing, single-issue neocon organization. That's exactly what AIPAC is. Don't they realize by now that peace will be better for Israel?

[Tinoire]

112. I think they're more focused on Israel at all costs than they are on peace

I think they're more focused on of Israeli-Likud interests than they are on peace.

This is why my hopes are on growing organizations like Tikkun, APN, Jews for Peace, etc who have repeatedly denounced AIPAC's involvement in US politics to further their agenda.

I see AIPAC as nothing more than the Christian Coalition using people's religious sensibilities to further right-wing political aims. Neither organization cares one whit about religion to make the manipulation even worse!

I don't envy the Liberal Israeli or Liberal Jewish-American orgnaizations that are fighting AIPAC and the right-wing. They are calculatingly under-represented in the media and either marginalized or demonized! Their most important asset in getting their message out is the internet and their visibility at the anti-war protests and they're doing a superb job! Also for their participation in the ISM (International Solidarity Movement) which I hear has a ton of young Jewish Americans on it. Adam Shapiro in only one of many who had the courage to go see for themselves, Stand up and say NO, and tell people what is really going on. My hat is OFF to them.

------
Josh Ruebner, co-founder of Jews for Peace in Palestine and Israel (JPPI) wrote an excellent piece on this. The excerpt doesn't do his article justice.

Arab-Jewish cooperation in U.S. could send a powerful signal

by Josh Ruebner & Rania Awwad

(Excerpt)

First, if Jewish Americans overwhelmingly support the establishment of a Palestinian state and a majority of them say they would support the terms of a just and lasting peace, then why is the Jewish American establishment pursuing an anti-peace agenda? For the past two years, as Palestinians have fought for their right to live in an independent state free of a foreign military occupation, the overtly racist, anti-Palestinian rhetoric of these organizations has become even more shrill.

Instead of supporting steps toward peace, the Jewish American establishment, headed by the America Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC) and the Council of Presidents of Major American Jewish Organizations, has actively sought to punish the Palestinian Authority through Congressional legislation designed to limit its ability to engage in diplomacy, as well as through attempts to suspend U.S. and U.N. humanitarian aid to the Palestinian people. This fundamental disconnect between the leadership of the Jewish American community and its grassroots demonstrates how this establishment is less interested in being representative than it is in advancing actions that demonize and hurt Palestinians.

Second, if both Arab and Jewish Americans seem to agree on the path toward a just and lasting peace between Israelis and Palestinians, then why is there so little cooperation between the organizations charged with representing our respective communities? Although the teamwork between AAI and APN that brought about this survey is commendable, unfortunately it represents an exception rather than the rule. Both Jewish and Arab organizations, along with the grassroots of both communities, need to make a redoubled effort to work together and send a powerful message to both our decision-makers in the United States and to Israelis and Palestinians that peaceful co-existence is possible based on mutual respect and acknowledgment of full and equal rights.

Third, if there is indeed so much convergence of views on Middle East peace between our two communities, then why are the interests of Jewish and Arab Americans often portrayed as being inexorably at odds? This misconception often leads decision-makers into the dangerous trap of believing that U.S. foreign policy in the Middle East is a zero-sum game in which the positions they adopt will necessarily alienate one or the other community. Most politicians are under the false impression that in order not to upset their Jewish American constituents, they have to adopt a blatantly one-sided position that strictly aligns U.S. foreign policy with Israel’s military occupation of the Palestinian people. The AAI-APN poll shows the falsity of thinking in zero-sum terms and should signal to politicians that they can support a balanced foreign policy – which caters to the needs and aspirations of both Israelis and Palestinians – and still enjoy the support of both their Jewish and Arab constituents.

<snip>

Josh Ruebner is co-founder of Jews for Peace in Palestine and Israel (JPPI). Rania Awwad is Washington, D.C. Regional Coordinator for Palestine Media Watch.

http://www.jppi.org/media_monitors_11_29_02.html

[IndianaGreen]

32. Green Party faction wants McKinney for president in 2004

Denise Majette is a lackey of Zell Miller, which is to say, she is a DINO. Majette also supports Bush's occupation of Iraq.

Personally I would prefer to see McKinney run against Majette, and see the Georgia Democrats pass legislation that limits or prevents Republicans from voting in the Democratic primary for a stealth rightwing candidate.

As we all know by now, the Green Party is a 100-percent liberal party. The Greens don't have crypto-rightwinger pukes like Joe Lieberman or Evan Bayh as members.

Green Party faction wants McKinney for president in 2004
Gathering debates former House member vs. Nader

By JACLYN GIOVIS
Cox News Service

WASHINGTON -- A faction of the Green Party is rallying support for former Democratic Congresswoman Cynthia McKinney, who represented Georgia's 4th District, to become the party's candidate for president in 2004.

An Internet site -- www.votemckinney.org -- has been created by a committee of Greens "who have a deep and enduring respect for Ralph Nader but do not take it for granted that he will be our candidate for the president next time around."

<snip>

McKinney is "thinking about" running as a Green but has also expressed interest in running for Congress as a Democrat, he said.

McKinney could not be reached for comment Friday. Last month, she began filing paperwork that would allow her to run again for her former seat in Congress, which she lost to Democrat Denise Majette in last year's primary.

http://www.ajc.com/news/content/news/0703/20greens.html

[Herschel]

39. Cynthia McKinney and the Green Party

Deserve one another.

[IndianaGreen]

42. Like Lieberman and Bayh deserve the GOP

a party to which those two pukes more properly belong.

[Herschel]

44. Joe Lieberman

is the Democrats' best canidate.

[IndianaGreen]

45. Lieberman is no Democrat

anymore than the pukes of the DLC are Democrats. They all sold out to the GOP agenda a long time ago!

[Herschel]

47. I beg to differ

They surely are. Perhaps not just like you, but they are Democrats. Our last Democratic president was aided by the DLC.

[IndianaGreen]

49. The DLC had nothing to do with Clinton winning the Presidency

It was Clinton's engaging personality, and Poppy Bush glancing at his watch during the 1992 Presidential debates (plus the Perot factor), that won the 2002 election.

In 2006, it was the GOP's disastrous leadership and tactics in Congress that backfired, plus Clinton's stewardship of the nation into peace, prosperity, and fiscal management that won the election.

The DLC lost the 2002 election, and they are more in tune with the likes of Ralph Reed or Karl Rove than they are with the grassroot Democrats.

[Herschel]

53. So then you tell me

Clinton, of the DLC, wins the presidency two times and the DLC does not matter. But in 2002 the DLC is responsible for the loss? It would seem you see what you want to see. Oh, my.

[Herschel]

54. One more thing for you

The Democratic party must turn away from the likes of Cynthia McKinney and fellow anti-semite Al Sharpton and toward moderation or disaster lurks, such as McGovern and Mondale. This includes friendship for Israel.

[Muddleoftheroad]

71. Could have fooled me

That "D" next to his name for instance. The party that he ran as a vice president for another.

[IndianaGreen]

76. Evan Bayh has a "D" next to his name

I am beginning to think that the "D" after Bayh and Lieberman's names stand for "Dickhead" and not for "Democrat."

The only reason that Looserman was on the ticket as VP is because Al Gore had no clue that the asshole was going to crumble as he did against Cheney, and during the Florida recount charade. Lieberman threw the towel despite strong evidence that the GOP was gathering military ballots cast after election day. Lieberman was also too eager to drop the entire recount matter.

Had Gore selected Bob Graham as running mate, he would be in the White House today and no one would have died in Iraq.

[Herschel]

80. Very well

You mourn Bush in the White House. I supported Al Gore. I voted for Al Gore. Can you say the same?

[IndianaGreen]

86. My vote is meaningless in a Republican state like Indiana

Where tens of thousands of voters that cast their ballots for the Democratic candidate for Governor (who actually won the election), decided to follow Hoosier tradition by voting for Bush at the top of the ticket.

I took my paper ballot and voted for Nader!

Indiana will not vote for a Democrat for President even if the Republicans nominate Goofy. It's in the DNA!

[Herschel]

103. So then

When looking for those that contributed to Gore's defeat, you might want to consider those that didn't vote him. I will leave it at that.

[IndianaGreen]

106. You are full of it!

Since Bush will carry Indiana in 2004, as every Republican has since 1964, my vote has only symbolic value. You do know the difference, dont' you? I could have 100,000 people that have never voted before come and vote for the Democratic candidate, and Bush will still carry Indiana by a comfortable margin.

Neither the Democrats nor the Republicans bother to run ads for their Presidential candidates in Indiana. The Democrats have more of a chance to carry South Carolina than Indiana.

Arafat has a better chance at becoming Prime Minister of Israel than the Democrats have of carrying Indiana.

When you ask yourself why the Democrats can't win Indiana, ask why the two major parties have failed to atract new voters? Less than half of eligible voters bothered to show up at the polls. The turnout for the 2002 election was lower than that!

Voter turnout is a primary factor in Indiana!

1990 Census: 5,544,156

Registered Voters (Nov 98): 3,377,956

Estimated Voting age population (Jan 98): 4,410,000

Here are the 2000 Indiana election results:

Republican - 1,245,836 - 56.65% - George W. Bush

Democrat - 901,980 - 41.01% - Al Gore, Jr.

Independent - 16,959 - 0.77% - Pat Buchanan

Libertarian - 15,530 - 0.71% - Harry Browne

Write-In Votes

8 - 0.00% - David Harold Birchler, Running under the "Republican Party" banner. No running mate.

5 - 0.00% - Earnest Lee Easton, Running under the "Veterans Industrial Party" banner. No running mate.

198 - 0.01% - John Hagelin, Running under the "Natural Law Party" banner.

15 - 0.00% - Keith Russell Judd, Running as an Independent. No running mate.

43 - 0.00% - David McReynolds, Running as an Independent candidate but a candidate for the Socialist Party. No running mate.

18,506 - 0.84% - Ralph Nader, Running under the "Green Party" banner.

197 - 0.01% - Howard Phillips, Running under the "Constitution Party" banner.

24 - 0.00% - Joe Schriner, Running as an Independent. No running mate.

4 - 0.00% - Gloria Dawn Strickland, Running as an Independent candidate. No running mate.

http://www.thegreenpapers.com/G00/IN.html

[GabysPoppy]

56. That would be great news for the Democrats

Does anybody here remember the Green party and a person named Nadar?

If it wasn't for them it would be President Gore.

And now you are encouraging a new partnership with the Green Party to screw us in 2004. Talk about being on the wrong web site.

Let her run for her former seat. If she wins the primary I would hope all democrats would support her. And if she loses her primary let all democrats support her opponent. But for her to take her bat and ball and run over to the Green Party, well that says a little something about her ideals and goals. And to rejoice in a decision of that kind that says much more about her supporters when they support that idea.

[IndianaGreen]

60. The Greens did not vote for the war on Iraq, unlike some Democrats

Should I mention their shameful names, particularly those that want to be "promoted" to the Oval Office?

[GabysPoppy]

64. What has that to do with my post?

Are you advocating supporting the Green Party or not? Is it ok with you that a Democrat lose again because of a spoiler running again with the Green Party backing?

Is one issue that large with you to support a Green candidate knowing that by doing so we will have 4 more years of this facist regime?

Please tell me my assumptions are wrong?

[IndianaGreen]

65. Zell Miller contributed money for the defeat of McKinney

if you want to discuss party loyalty...

Or is party loyalty what is demanded by the conservative Democrats when it is their candidate's hide on the line? They don't seem to have such qualms about subverting liberal incumbents.

[GabysPoppy]

70. So I can assume by your answer or non-answer

That you would Support a Green Party candidate if it meant McKinney?

That you would support her knowing that the debacle of 2000 would be repeated again in 2004?

Don't throw other politicians name into your answer. I care not a rat's ass for Miller, Lieberman, Breaux or any other person you want to throw in.

[IndianaGreen]

75. I will support any candidate that opposes the war and occupation of Iraq

particularly if that candidate has earned the emnity of the likes of the DLC and the Religious Right, two birds of a feather IMHO since they both oppose full civil rights for gays.

[Herschel]

81. Please tell us

Which of the Democratic canidates you might support. I believe Dennis Kucinich alone favors an immediate retreat from Iraq.

[IndianaGreen]

84. Unlike the handful of DLC Jihadist on this board

Unlike the handful of DLC Jihadist on this board that are always accusing the Left of demanding ideological purity, as if they were not guilty of it themselves, I will support any candidate that will end the Occupation of Iraq, bring the UN to administer Iraq until the Iraqis themselves decide they are ready to manage their own affairs, and restore the US to the family of nations by driving a stake through the heart of PNAC imperialism.

All of the antiwar candidates will do that, on a different time schedule of course. Kucinich and Sharpton will be the ones to end our tragic involvement in Iraq at the earliest possible time. Dean will be more cautious. Dean will not pull up stakes in the middle of the night and move, as the Colts left Baltimore to move to Indianapolis. Dean would get a UN Resolution and have an orderly but prompt withdrawal from Iraq. Graham will do the same, but on a much slower pace. I think Graham will wait until Iraq is stable, which isn't possible since the Occupation itself adds to the instability.

Will I support a prowar candidate? You bet! All they have to do is repent and make amends for their votes. None of the candidates that voted for the war seem ready to even admit that they were wrong; worse yet, none of them has called for a US withdrawal from Iraq.

[Herschel]

104. A reality for you

Moderate Democrats will be needed to defeat Bush. You will have just two choices for the next president. Scorning Bush's opponent is tacit support for Bush. All else is fantasy.

[IndianaGreen]

107. When it comes to fantasy

Lieberman as the Democratic nominee, now that's fantasy!

[Violet_Crumble]

74. That whole argument makes no sense...

Does anybody here remember the Green party and a person named Nadar?

If it wasn't for them it would be President Gore.


Of course to believe that sort of tripe, one would have to be positive that everyone who voted for Nader would have voted for Gore if Nader hadn't run. Somehow seeing as how voting isn't mandatory in the US, it seems to me there's a fair likelihood that many Green voters would have stayed home and not voted rather than vote for someone who they didn't support. This whole thing of treating the Greens like they're mortal enemies is so bizarre and why I think the US needs a multi-party system where the President is elected by the party that forms government....


And now you are encouraging a new partnership with the Green Party to screw us in 2004. Talk about being on the wrong web site.

Hey, this site isn't just for yr blessed Democrats. As a mod you should be familiar with the rules of the site which say "This is a message board for Democrats and other progressives." It also says DU welcomes a wide range of progressive opinion. This progressive is telling you right now that if she was a US citizen, she wouldn't vote for anyone who supported the war in Iraq, which I believe counts out most Democrats but none of the Greens. Geez, at least our mainstream left-wing party here had some balls and actually voted in Parliament against deploying troops...


Violet...

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[GabysPoppy]

83. Absolutely Not

But please remember the purpose of Democratic Underground is to facilitate regime change of the present administration. I take that quite seriously and would hope everyone shares those views.

[IndianaGreen]

85. The operative word in "regime change" is "change"

Having a candidate that will not change the PNAC-inspired Bush policies is not "change" at all. It is Saddamnism without Saddam!

[GabysPoppy]

87. Regime change means ABB

Even Joseph Lieberman (Bush-lite) is preferable. Their are enough problems with ALL of the * programs to run away from any candidate running against him. To fixate on only PNAC inspired problems is not looking at the big picture.

* and his cronies have set this country back 50 years and MUST be removed. Once that is accomplished, individual problems can be addressed. It is a wrong choice to continue to back a candidate no matter who, ONCE a candidate is chosen if it means that backing of that candidate through a 3rd party will mean the defeat of the Democrat.

I don't know how I can be more clear. Even should McKinney be the Democratic candidate means I would support her against *. If it meant Lieberman was the candidate, I would support him. The fact that I would hate to see either one as the standard bearer of The Democratic Party has absolutely no bearing once the primaries are over.

[Darranar]

88. Regime change...

would be horrible if the wrong candidate got elected. Pat Buchnana is worse than Bush. So is David Duke, and anyone who posts on Stormfront.

[GabysPoppy]

92. Are you suggesting

That the Democrats would give any consideration to a Buchanan or Duke? Let's give some credibility to the Democratic populace please. You are missing my point entirely. I am not suggesting that our candidate would or should be picked at random from the telephone book.

Once selected by the primaries and the convention, the candidate deserves and merits our support. That can't be too hard to contemplate.

[Darranar]

96. No, of course not...

I was just pointing out the fallacy of Anyone but Bush. Any Democrat but Bush I can accept.

[IndianaGreen]

89. Lieberman is a Jewish version of Bush!

Why would anyone outside of Al From's sick cult would vote for Holy Joe?

[Darranar]

91. Incorrect!

Lieberman is slightly more liberal than Bush on several issues. Paul Wolfowitz more clearly resembles a Jewish Bush.

[GabysPoppy]

94. Here are your choices (if it happens)

(A) Bush

(B) Lieberman

(C) Third Party (knowing that it means Bush wins again)


More straight forward I cannot make it.

[IndianaGreen]

97. If A = B, then C

I doubt that Lieberman would win a single primary, or even come second in New Hampshire.

BTW, Hole Joe is on CNN right now telling us how wrong we were to oppose Bush in Iraq. What a puke!

[Aidoneus]

95. set the country back 50yrs?--hardly!

They're the logical product of the last 50yrs!, and that is the regime that needs "changing".

[GabysPoppy]

98. Explain that to me - "They're the logical product of the last 50yrs"

I kind of like what Bill Clinton accomplished for the 8 years of his Presidency.

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[GabysPoppy]

111. I resent your implication that I support Lieberman

"I don't know how I can be more clear. Even should McKinney be the Democratic candidate means I would support her against *. If it meant Lieberman was the candidate, I would support him. The fact that I would hate to see either one as the standard bearer of The Democratic Party has absolutely no bearing once the primaries are over."


Which part of "hate to have either one" did you have trouble with?

[Name removed]

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[IndianaGreen]

35. Cynthia McKinney Poised for Political Return

Published on Thursday, June 5, 2003 by the Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Cynthia McKinney Poised for Political Return
by Melanie Eversly

Some who subscribe to the view that Republican crossover votes affected the outcome of the Democratic primary believe McKinney would have a good chance of defeating Majette in 2004. Among them is David Bositis, a senior researcher with the Joint Center for Political and Economic Studies, a Washington think tank.

Bositis said that with at least two Republican candidates vying for the GOP nomination to replace retiring Sen. Zell Miller, Majette won't be able to rely on Republican support in the Democratic primary, whose winner is expected to sail through the general election in the heavily Democratic 4th District.

A post-election analysis by the Journal-Constitution, however, found that voters clearly identifiable as Republicans accounted for only about 3,000 of the ballots cast in the election, less than one-sixth of Majette's victory margin. Still, Charles Bullock, a political scientist at the University of Georgia who analyzed the contest, also found the vote was racially polarized, with McKinney drawing 83 percent of the African-American vote. Like Bositis, he predicts that a contested Republican primary in the Senate race could draw white Majette voters away from the Democratic primary next year.

"What Majette needs to be doing is getting out, courting in the black community, trying to broaden her coalition because she did so poorly in her community," Bullock said.

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0605-07.htm

[Herschel]

41. "Cynthia McKinney Poised for Political Return"

Perhaps a canidate to be dog catcher.

[IndianaGreen]

43. If Majette is the stray dog that has to be caught

and euthanized (in terms of political life).

[Herschel]

46. Enough silly talk

I believe Cynthia McKinney is an anti-semite and unfit for office. I will leave it at that.

[IndianaGreen]

48. And I disagree with you on all counts!

McKinney is not an anti-Semite.

Lieberman is unfit for President, particularly as a Democrat.

Evan Bayh is as unfit for office as Lieberman.

The invasion of Iraq was a war crime.

The occupation of Iraq is wrong and must end.

Bush & Company should be arrested and tried for war crimes!

Like you, I will leave it at that.

[bemildred]

50. I dunno why you bother IG.

Although it's always good to fight the good fight.

Lie-berman, FWIW, would get his ass kicked from Tucson to
Tucumcari if he got the nomination, and rightly so. He looks
as dumb as Bush, and he has the charisma of a moldy dishcloth.

[drdon326]

51. bemildred.....

i dont know if you remember but "LIE-BERMAN"
was used by the repukes during the 2000 election.

Do you think using repuke words are really
necessary??

[bemildred]

52. Necessary?

No. But I like it.
We are all here to have fun, right?
Even the repukes can be right twice a day.

[drdon326]

57. "Even the repukes can be right twice a day."

i WILL quote you often.

:smoke:

[bemildred]

58. Please do.

[IndianaGreen]

18. Why don't we leave Majette there as a peace offering to Hamas?

One less DINO to worry about, and we can restore the seat to its legitimate Democratic Representative, Cynthia McKinney!

Scott said he also hopes to spend some time at sites in Bethlehem and other biblical sites.

Let me guess, he also refers to Israel as the "Holy Land."

AIPAC's campaign donations last year helped Majette unseat her incumbent opponent, Cynthia McKinney, who had expressed sympathy for Palestinian nationalists.

Typical Republican and ultra-Zionist smear that one would expect from a religious puke like Tom DeLay, or others like him that share similar ideology under the guise of being "pro-Israel."

AIPAC is turning into the same rightwing Republican front that the NRA has become.

On edit: fixed font.

[legin]

61. The sad thing is

If almost exactly the same article had been written by commandreams or electronic intifada, with perhaps just a tad stronger language in places, it would be regarded as a Denise Majette/AIPAC hit piece and the usual suspects would be squealing about the crass anti-semitism of the writer.

But it is utterly obvious that these 20 or so fully bought and paid for AIPAC whores probably did a fair amount of work to get this piece into the Atlanta Journal-Constitution because they are quite confident that being a one-eyed cyclops on the I/P issue is a popular vote winning stand.

On a related note I would like to say that as I have no morals and it has been frigging raining all week in britain (like normal), my support on various issues is up for sale in the marketplace. A fully paid for nine day holiday somewhere where the sun shines with lots of nice food could seriously effect how I think about things in the future.

[IndianaGreen]

62. Will a dog cage in Guantanamo do?

The sun shines most of the time, you get 3 square meals a day, and you can go to sleep with the sound of the surf in the background. You also get to meet many interesting characters.

:evilgrin:

[legin]

63. IG

:evilgrin: :P

[newyorican]

68. No problem

Go to Ireland (preferably west coast) and wait five minutes. The weather will change, but you'll only have 5 minutes to enjoy it.

Me, I'm heading to Puerto Rico next week for my annual recharge. ;)

[Violet_Crumble]

77. Isla de Encanta....

A Puerto Rican friend of mine who described Puerto Rico as something like a stinky, sore boil on the backside of a feral pig told me this song's about Puerto Rico...

Isla del encanto,
Me voy! {x3}

Donde no hay sufrimiento {x2},
Me vieron pasar por la calle,
Isla del encanto,
Me voy! {x3}

Nuestro propio animal canta a la gente pa'gratis,
Hey babe what are we doing here?.
Laaaaa, Loooh, Patria.
Isla del encanto,
Me voy! {x3}

{TRANSLATION}

Little sister come with me,
There are planes each hour,

Island of the enchantment,
I'm leaving!
Where there is no suffering,
They saw me pass by the street,
Island of the enchantment,
I'm leaving!

Our own animal sings for free for the people,
Hey babe what are we doing here?
Laaa Loooh, Fatherland.

Island of the enchantment,
I'm leaving!


Okay, so I'll use any excuse to post Pixies lyrics ;)

Violet...

[Lithos]

114. Locking

This thread seems to be spining it's wheels and not accomplishing anything except inflame a lot of issues.

Lithos
FA/NS Moderator
Democratic Underground