Birthright Israel concerned ISM activists are exploiting trips

[drdon326]

Birthright Israel concerned ISM activists are exploiting trips

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1071907511234

Birthright israel's free trips to the country – paid for by Jewish philanthropists eager to foster ties to Israel and Judaism – don't only provide safe passage to fervent Zionists.

The program has also attracted members of the pro-Palestinian International Solidarity Movement who fit the requirements for participation: They are Jewish, 18 to 26, and have never been on an organized tour of the country.

"It's a free ticket," explained ISM cofounder Adam Shapiro, who informed student activists at November's Palestine Solidarity Movement conference at Ohio State University of the birthright trips.

He said he knows personally at least five ISM members who came here through the program and believes the total is much higher.

ISM aims to help end the Israeli presence in the territories, engaging in activities such as standing in front of IDF bulldozers intent on demolishing Palestinian homes. It was in such an actions Rachel Corrie, an American ISM activist, was accidentally killed in March.

..............................................................

hey adam...2 words...EAT ME.

[bluesoul]

1. Adam Shapiro

:yourock:

[newyorican]

2. They have to make up for bouncing checks...

the GOI doles out as "compensation" for killing peace activists. Nice bit of Ju-Jitsu. :thumbsup:

[Name removed]

4. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[newyorican]

9. money is money...

sources *can* be irrelevant.

[Jim Sagle]

14. Hey...you're stealing my lines.,

:thumbsdown:

[bluesoul]

15. With a good

reason... :thumbsup:

[corporatewhore]

30. I second that

Adam Shapiro :yourock:

[number6]

49. I second that, also

Adam Shapiro :yourock:

[number6]

50. oh, and another thing

ISM :yourock:

[dfong63]

33. you said it!

[Gimel]

3. One word for all

exploitation. This will end, I'm sure.

[drdon326]

5. Another word: AS-dirtball terrorist-supporting...

lying bastard.

It would be terrible if he experienced personally the tragedy
of wanton terrorism that he supports. Yeah....just terrible.

[bluesoul]

6. I could not find all the words

for Sharon and his gang...

[meti57b]

32. or even .... terror-ISM

[liberalhistorian]

34. So anyone who's concerned

about the destruction of Palestinian villages and those left homeless and penniless as a result, and the treatment of Palestinians in the occupied territories, automatically supports terrorism? UH-UH, I don't fucking think so.

[MikeGalos]

35. And neither does anybody else

but nice try at creating a straw-man argument and trying to put words in other people's mouths.

Conversely, by the way, just because you are concerned with treatment of Palestinians in the PA lands, doesn't mean you don't also support terrorists.

Some people do one, some do the other, some do both.

ISM, apparently does both. (but doesn't seem to care much about peace)

[liberalhistorian]

36. Apparently, you fail to recognize

that there are plenty of others who are concerned for victims on BOTH sides, who consider innocents on BOTH sides to be of equal importance, it is not mutually exlusive.

[bluesoul]

37. Exactly!

LH some just don't want to understand sadly...

[liberalhistorian]

40. Yes, I know, and it's

very discouraging.

[MikeGalos]

38. And that has what to do with your post

or my reply?

[liberalhistorian]

39. Because the underlying

implication in your post and other responses is that if you express any concern for Palestinian victims and the treatment of the Palestinians in the occupied territories and even within Israel, then you must not care about the Israeli victims of suicide bombings and other similar attacks, and you must support terrorist actions. At least, that's how it comes across to many of us.

[MikeGalos]

43. Oh, bull

Your post set up the strawman that somebody claimed that "anyone who's concerned about the destruction of Palestinian villages and those left homeless and penniless as a result, and the treatment of Palestinians in the occupied territories, automatically supports terrorism?" which nobody here has suggested.

The only one saying such an idiotic thing was you putting words in a strawman's mouth and implying that some people here on DU actually said it. This is the same kind of bogus argument that Bush uses to claim that people who don't support him are terrorist supporters. It's insulting and wrong when he does it. It's insulting and wrong when you do it.

If your own arguments are so bad that you have to manufacture what your opponent believes to justify your arguments, then your own views need to be rethought since, apparently, even you don't really believe in them.

[liberalhistorian]

44. No, what's insulting and wrong

is when people automatically assume I'm a "terrorist sympathizer" when I express any sympathy or concern at all for Palestinian victims, and the automatic assumption that that means that I don't care about victims of suicide bombings or other similar attacks. THAT, my friend, is what is insulting and wrong.

And I said it was an UNDERLYING ASSUMPTION, and not that anyone had actually come out and said it. But sometimes they don't have to.

[MikeGalos]

45. And that

would be valid if it had anything to do with what you said.

Unfortunately, it doesn't.

[liberalhistorian]

46. I'm afraid it does,

but you obviously don't, so what's the point?

[MikeGalos]

47. Nobody ever said

"anyone who's concerned about the destruction of Palestinian villages and those left homeless and penniless as a result, and the treatment of Palestinians in the occupied territories, automatically supports terrorism?"

So I get it and you're changing the story now that you can't back up what you claimed.

[liberalhistorian]

51. If you would have paid attention,

you'd have noticed that I said it was the UNDERLYING IMPLICATION in some posts, not that anyone had actually ever said it.

[Name removed]

52. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[newyorican]

10. How will it end?

Ideological testing?

[brainshrub]

7. I'm Catholic.

Why doesn't some rich Catholic offer me a free plane ticket to Rome?

[liberalhistorian]

41. LOL!

And I wish some rich Irishman/woman would give me a trip to the land o' green!

[David__77]

8. Is ISM actually "pro-terrorist?"

Is obstructing IDF operations objectively "pro-terrorist?" Aren't there non-violent factions opposing occupation forces? It's my hope that the Palestinians will move over to civil methods of political struggle--it would garner them infinitely greater sympathy fromt the world community. But in the interim, isn't there a place for activities by groups like the ISM? If they are engaging in "terrorist" activities, surely the Israeli judiciary can handle it.

[Resistance]

16. Of course not

there is a smear campaign taking place, ever since Israel murdered Rachel Corrie and Tom Hurndall, to justify killing them by labelling them as "terrorist-supporters" with of course no evidence; it's just the same propaganda techniques regularly employed by ultra-nationalists.

[drdon326]

17. LOL

They smeared themselves being lying ,deceiful terrorist
supporters.

[liberalhistorian]

42. Oh, really?

I suppose trying to stop the destruction of the home of an elderly Palestinian doctor for the crime of living on land that the illegal settlements wanted for themselves, and trying to stop the destruction of the village as a whole leaving the inhabitants homeless and penniless is supporting terrorism, then?

[The Magistrate]

20. Just As, Mr. Resistance

Labeling them murdered peace workers is the propaganda tactic routinely employed by ultra-radicals.

The difference, Sir, is no more than a mirror's.

[bluesoul]

21. Labeling peace activists

with "terrorist supporters" is the worst kind of propaganda I've seen here. The low point really...

[MikeGalos]

26. Nah

Calling Terrorist Supporters "Peace Activists" is worse.

After all, it not only smirches activism but makes a mockery of everyone who has actually cared about peace by using that noble cause as a hiding place to shelter the support of mass murder to gain negotiating points on a border dispute.

Please, explain how anything could be much worse.

[Violet_Crumble]

31. Thank goodness no-one here does that...

Calls terrorist supporters Peace Activists, that is...

Violet...

[number6]

48. yes Its getting really really low here, your right

.

[newyorican]

23. Photographs And Eyewitness Accounts...

Leave little room for doubt the driver was aware of the person before his blade. That he continued on despite this was criminal; that this resulted in that person's death makes the act one of murder. This is not a case where someone was hiding in a structure, nor was the driver in any immediate danger which destroying the structure would end.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/cgi-bin/duforum/duboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=6573&forum=DCForumID30&archive=yes#34

[The Magistrate]

24. Fair Enough, My Friend

That was an early stage of the debate over the matter, and since there has emerged some question about the provenance of some of the photographs; not all of them seem to have been taken at the time of the incident in question, though they were at the time presented as though they had been taken in the moments just before the young woman's death. A fuller account of the incident in many ways has emerged, that has led me to alter my views formed in the first heat of its report, regarding the proof of the degree of culpability of the driver. It is just one of many lessons life has given me in not placing too much reliance on initial reports and passions. Ms. Corrie's death greatly distressed me, as it did most all here, and it does seem to me to have been criminal, though a crime short of murder.

[Jack Rabbit]

28. Well stated, sir

!!

[The Magistrate]

29. Thank You, Old Friend

Royalty payments for "Pot...meet Kettle" are beyond my immediate means in this shopping season....

[JohnLocke]

53. Here's my side of the story

The International Solidarity Movement supports terrorism

The International Solidarity Movement (ISM) has harbored known terrorists and openly advocated violence and the destruction of Israel. ISM spokesman Raphael Cohen was asked at a May 2003 press conference to define “occupation.” His response: “The Zionist presence in Palestine” (David Bedein. "Support unit for terror," Jerusalem Post, June 25, 2003).
When asked to express his view of peace, he answered, “a one state solution,” by which he meant the creation of a Palestinian state in place of Israel.
On ISM's web site, the Internet directory is called “traveltopalestine.” Their site also located Ben Gurion Airport in “Palestine.” It includes an information packet for volunteers that features a country guide to “Palestine.” The guide lists the landmass of “Palestine” as “26,323 km2 = 10,162 miles2” – the size of the entire State of Israel, plus the West Bank and Gaza. The country guide describes the geographic boundaries of “Palestine” as extending from Jordan to the Mediterranean Sea, and from Lebanon to Aqaba; that is, again incorporating all of Israel.
The ISM does not hide its incitement to violence. Its web site states that it recognizes “the Palestinian right to resist Israeli violence and occupation via legitimate armed struggle.” Cohen admits that, on April 25, 2003, he hosted a group of 15 people at his apartment. Included in that group were Asif Mohammad Hanif and Omar Khan Sharif, British nationals. They subsequently participated in various activities planned by the ISM. Five days later, the two carried out a suicide bombing in a popular pub next to the American Embassy in Tel Aviv that is frequented by Embassy personnel. Hanif and Sharif entered Israel under the guise of “peace activists” and “alternative tourism” – perhaps a reference to the ISM-precursor “Alternative Tourist Group” (Andrew Friedman, "The ‘Neutral’ Partisans," The Review, July 2003). ISM denies responsibility for the actions of the British bombers

More here

At Rutgers in the spring of 2003, the New Jersey Solidarity Movement hung a large banner painted in Palestinian colors in the Student Center that read "From the River to the Sea, Palestine will be Free." This is a Hamas slogan popular both among Palestinians and within the ISM. The poetry of the Hamas slogan may come out as mere doggerel in English translation, but the Movement's intention of destroying Israel is made clear, as is -- for those who know that this is a Hamas slogan -- the implied endorsement of the Hamas program.
…
In a widely publicized incident that made many doubt the ISM's claims that it does not collaborate with terrorists, Susan Barclay, an ISM organizer later deported by Israel, attempted to hide Islamic Jihad terrorist Shadi Sukiya in the ISM office in Jenin while the IDF searched the building for him. An ISM spokesman claimed that Barclay had no way of knowing who the man was -- although that would hardly justify her attempt to prevent a search of the ISM offices by an officer of the law who was searching for an identified terrorist. The spokesman went on to say that he was not certain how he would behave if he were himself given the opportunity to shelter a known terrorist from the police.
Tom Wallace, 43, who has traveled from Boston to work as the ISM's spokesperson in Jenin, says the ISMers in Jenin had no idea who Sukiya was when they took him in that morning, and that they were only trying to help a man in distress. And if, in the future, someone who the ISM knows to be a terrorist shows up at the office door requesting assistance? "He's still someone who's hurt and needs help," Tom says, adding that ISM members in Jenin are now debating this very question. "Honestly, I don't know the answer." One year earlier, ISM volunteers went to great lengths to enter the Arafat compound for the purpose of acting as human shields for Arafat and for the terrorists that the ISM volunteer writing this journal entry proudly refers to as the "Ze'evi Five" in honor of the Israeli Cabinet minister whom they murdered.
Here Tamara, a 25-year-old mother from the Los Angeles area who belongs to "Los Angeles Jews for a Just Peace" and who traveled to Israel to work as an ISM volunteer, reports on a lecture from a "calm, well-spoken" Hamas representative who told the audience of International Solidarity Movement volunteers that he does not endorse suicide bombings: “We had the chance to meet with, Dr. Ghazi Hamed Hamed, a representative from Hamas. He is by far one of the most interesting and surprising people I have met here. Calm, well spoken, and very upfront. He spoke frankly, and gave us a picture of Hamas that we would never imagine in the West. He told is about the organizing they do for those in need, the construction of schools and social service organizations. They also have a women's group, "some people misunderstand us. We do not discriminate against women and there is nothing to prevent them from being leaders." He also said that although he supports the Palestinian right (as detailed in international law) to armed resistance, he does not personally support suicide bombings. However he reminded us that many people feel that is the only way they can fight against the occupation.”

More

[corporatewhore]

11. I am sure

my dear palestinian friend would love a free ticket and a birthright to her home in jerusalem which she no longer has a right to return to (she came to america to get married six day war broke out wasnt there to be counted in the census)

[liberalhistorian]

54. Interesting how none

of the staunch Israel-can-do-no-wrong crowd have bothered to respond to you at all, isn't it?

[drdon326]

12. The ISM teaching how to lie....

(something they are very good at.)

http://www.palsolidarity.org/traveltopalestine/travelingtopalestine.php

"Many people are afraid to come via Tel Aviv because Palestinian sympathizers are being denied entry into the country. We believe that it's less suspicious if you come through Israel but you have to have a really good story about why you are coming, and must not mention anything about ISM or knowing, liking or planning to visit Palestinians. You must play it as though your visit is for other, Israel-based reasons, like tourism, religion, visiting an Israeli friend, etc. So do a little bit of research and put together a story that you'll be able to answer questions about. For example, if you say you are visiting a friend in Jerusalem, you should have the name and phone number of a real Israeli person. If you are coming for religious purposes, have a book or two on religion and travel in Israel; have an itinerary, etc."


the ISM....Lies. Deceit. Terror-supporters.

[bluesoul]

13. Maybe they have such

personal experience. How do you know they lied about it? Where you with them? Are you an Israeli citizen?

[Saudade]

18. Do ya think?

"Terror-supporters."



Do you think that if you repeat it often enough, it will somehow become a truth, as if by magic?

[brainshrub]

19. During the 60's civil-rights era

do you think it would have been a good idea for activists going to Mississippi to tell other people on the buss what they were going to do once they got to the South?

[MikeGalos]

27. Actually

the parallel would be for the Klan to tell their supporters to hitch a ride on the Freedom Rider's buses to save the carfare.

[bemildred]

22. Funniest thing I've read today.

:-)

[tinnypriv]

25. OH MY GOSH

I'm outraged.

Seriously.

Imagine if this sort of thing was being abused in order to bring M-16 toting loons into an occupied territory to colonise the land and humilate the natives!?