Moving to action on anti-Semitism

[MikeGalos]

Moving to action on anti-Semitism
By ABRAHAM H. FOXMAN

Acknowledging a problem, without exaggerating it, is the first and necessary step to solving it. Regarding the explosion of anti-Semitism around the world, we still haven't definitively taken the first step.

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<...> While Chirac's acknowledgement of the problem was very late, it showed how taking that step almost inevitably leads to action. Hence, the importance of looking at and analyzing the various rationalizations that are used to avoid such acknowledgement.

* First is the denial that "my country" is anti-Semitic. <...>

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* Second is the theme that attacks on Jews and Jewish institutions are not really anti-Semitism but the passions of the Middle East conflict coming to the streets of Europe.

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* Third is the idea that the threat to Jews is not so serious because extreme anti-Semitism, comparable in some ways to the ideology of hatred of the Nazis, comes from the Islamic world and there are almost no Jews living in those countries. <...>

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* Fourth is the idea propounded even by some prominent Jews, that what we are witnessing is not really a recrudescence of classical anti-Semitism, but a reaction to the bad policies of the Sharon government.

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All of these evasions have practical impact. They stand in the way of what is needed to make sure that it doesn't happen again.
We are seeing some recognition of the seriousness of the problem. More must be done, starting with world Jewry.

The writer is national director of the Anti-Defamation League.

Full text at < http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1071979692587&p=1006953079865 >
Or at < http://www.adl.org/Anti_semitism/oped_action_as.asp >

[Name removed]

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[liberalhistorian]

4. So what about Israeli racism and bigotry

against the Palestinians? Does THAT count as well?

[dfong63]

16. exactly!

fighting bigotry should start "at home". Jews (and their allies) who want to fight racism throughout the world should take a hard look at how Israel treats the Palestinians, both in the OT and in Israel proper: discrimination against non-Jews is rampant. the very idea that Jews have some kind of special right to a "Jewish state", and that they should be allowed to conduct what amounts to ethnic cleansing in order to achieve that end, is itself a deeply racist belief. it's not much different from what America's white supremacists believe about America, or Hitler believed about Germany.

[Jim Sagle]

33. So you're saying Israel has no right to exist?

[liberalhistorian]

35. Why is it that every single time

someone criticizes Israel's treatment of the Palestinians, particularly in the occupied territories, and brings up racist statements made by Israeli leaders against the Palestinians (especially from Sharon and Netanyahu), some others automatically assume, or think they read, that the person was against Israel, thought it had no right to exist, etc., etc.?

Did he ever ONCE say that? Was there anything at all in the post to imply that? Are you saying that Israel can pretty much do whatever it likes, especially to the Palestinians, and should get away with it, because, hey, you know, they're just Palestinians and don't count as much?

I don't know why I'm even bothering, but I'm going to say this yet ONE MORE TIME: Expressing sympathy and concern for innocent Palestinian victims of Israeli policies, and anger at those policies, DOES NOT MEAN that the person has no sympathy and concern for innocent Israeli victims of suicide bombings and other attacks, or that there's any concern or caring at all for those inhumane monsters who carry out such murderous attacks. I don't understand why that's so difficult a concept to grasp.

[Jim Sagle]

40. I was referring to this phrase:

"the very idea that Jews have some kind of special right to a "Jewish state""

That's one of the things he objected to. And of course there's nothing special about it. It's the same right any other distinct people have.

[liberalhistorian]

42. Oh, okay, I thought you were

referring to something I had said, not what someone else was saying. However, as the Jews have a right to Israel, to their own state, so do the Palestinians (it is as much, if not more, their land, as well) and it would be very hypocritical not to recognize that.

[Come Together]

2. Great Post! Thanks.

"Fourth is the idea propounded even by some prominent Jews, that what we are witnessing is not really a recrudescence of classical anti-Semitism, but a reaction to the bad policies of the Sharon government. Whatever one's views on Israeli policies, and clearly there is a lively conversation going on in Israel in this regard, it is a misreading to see what is going on in those terms.

This is not to say that solving the Israeli-Palestinian conflict would not have impact on anti-Semitism around the world. I think it would. But this approach is faulty because the true linkage of anti-Semitism to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is the opposite: it is the hatred reflected in anti-Semitism that has made the Israeli-Palestinian conflict even harder to solve. Anti-Semitism, far from being a product of the conflict, is increasingly a cause of it."


'There are none so blind as those who will not see.'

[liberalhistorian]

3. I'm afraid that a lot of it IS

a reaction to the racist, destructive, genocidal policies of Sharon and his compatriots in the Lidud party. I'm getting a little bit tired of hearing any criticism at all of Israel immediately and hysterically labeled "anti-Semitism", which then automatically shuts down whoever is saying anything even slightly critical.

Criticism of some of Israel's leaders and/or their policies is NOT automatically anti-Semitism. If you say, for instance, that you believe the settlements are either illegal or are causing a lot of problems, if you disagree with the taking of Palestinian land for the benefit of the settlements, if you disagree with either the occupation of the West Bank or the methods of occupation, if you have a problem with the blatantly racist, and sometimes-genocidal rhetoric of Sharon, Netanyahu, and their ilk, THAT IS NOT ANTI-SEMITISM!

If, on the other hand, you say things such as Israel has no right to exist and/or must be driven into the sea forever, the "Jews" control the world/banking or financial system/politics/ etc., etc., (pick your poison, because there's no end to the nuttiness of what Jews are alleged to control), if your response to things, even suicide bombings, is to "blame the Jews", etc., etc., etc., THAT IS ANTI-SEMITISM.

Just like criticism of American leaders and/or policies is NOT criticism of the USA itself and its citizens. The cry of "anti-Semitism" is used as a weapon to prevent any criticism at all of Israel's leaders and/or their policies so that they can do whatever they like, and that's just plain wrong.

[Muddleoftheroad]

5. "Genocidal?"

Holy crud what a bogus claim! Please cite some vague reference to indicate the number of Palestinian deaths indicates ANY attempt on the part of Israel to try genocide.

When you can't do that, please make THAT clear.

[Name removed]

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[mmm]

9. thank you for making that point

someone once said that Zionists like Sharon use
Zionism as both a sword and a shield: a sword
while he eliminates the Palestinian People, a shield
when he is accused of war crimes and genocide only to cry
'anti-Semitism!'
I would love to see him in prison, forever.

[Jim Sagle]

34. I remember you. You're the guy who posted "Hamas are heroes."

:puke:

[liberalhistorian]

36. He didn't actually say that, did he?

I have a hard time believing that any rational person would actually say or believe something like that!

[Muddleoftheroad]

37. You mean like "genocidal?"

Which you said and haven't explained as yet?

[Jim Sagle]

47. Unfortunately he did.

[MikeGalos]

12. Wow, 7 minutes

It took all of 7 minutes for the first person to use exactly the excuses discussed in the article to defend anti-Semtism.

As I said, let the lame excuses begin.

[liberalhistorian]

13. I AM NOT DEFENDING ANTI-SEMITISM!

Did you actually read my post, or just assume you know what it said without bothering to even read it? For your information, I have Jewish friends who happen to agree with me, and no, they're not self-hating Jews as they are usually labeled whenever they make the slightest criticism of Israel.

[Name removed]

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[liberalhistorian]

18. And how, exactly, am I doing that?

I want a specific example, because otherwise it seems like you're just making generalized statements against me. Once again, criticism of Israel's leaders and/or policies is NOT anti-Semitism! Is criticism of American leaders and/or policies being anti-American? OF COURSE NOT! So, what, Israel can do whatever it wants to whoever it wants whenever it wants and any criticism at all is immediately anti-Semitism? I don't think so.

[Muddleoftheroad]

29. Genocidal?

I never heard a response to that bogus claim of yours.

[MikeGalos]

43. And apparently you won't

(didn't want you getting tired of holding your breath!) :-)

[liberalhistorian]

46. What does that mean?

You have to understand that I have some people on Ignore, and it looks like several of them posted to this thread. If someone's responding to me and I have them on Ignore, there's no way for me to know that.

[tinnypriv]

6. Amusing little anecdote

"The issue was not whether these countries were anti-Semitic"

Hmmm, quite a few in Israel disagree. To pick almost at random, this is one (minor) example of a headline, of a type often repeated:

"The Anti-Semitic Face of France"¹

Funny, I didn't see Foxman condemning this over-generalisation at the time :shrug:

-----

1. Ma'ariv, 19 October 2003. The caption was accompanied by an unflattering picture of French President Chirac, and an editorial condemning him as "The Collaborator" (written by the editor). The basis for these charges was later conceeded to be fabrication.

[Come Together]

8. Just because you didn't see it doesn't

mean it doesn't exist.

For example, I can't see you, but I believe you exist.

[mmm]

10. In this case it does not exist.

Anti zionism yes.
Anti-Semitism no.

[Come Together]

39. Would you please read post #11?

Thanks.

[Jim Sagle]

48. Just because you say it doesn't exist doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

[MikeGalos]

11. And even the French Goverment agrees

that there's a rising problem of Anti-Semitism in France.

Why is it that you think you know more about anti-Semitism in France than either the French government or all the agencies studying racism?

(Of course, the opening paragraph of the story talks about Chirac working to fight the problems of Anti-Semtism in France and praises him for acknowleging it but I guess you didn't even get as far as the first paragraph before coming to the defence of French anti-Semites.)

[liberalhistorian]

15. France has always been more than

a little anti-Semitic. During WWII, many French citizens had no trouble at all turning in tens of thousands of their Jewish neigbors, even if they'd known them for years, and even if they were related to them by marriage, and even though many of them had at least some idea of what was going to happen to those they turned in. Attacks on synagogues, Jewish homes and shops, etc., have never been at all uncommon in France, even today.

[MikeGalos]

19. And let's not forget L'Affaire Dreyfus

which really was the trigger point for Zionism.

It demonstrated that even in a modern, liberal, technologically sophisticated democracy, anti-Semitism can be so ingrained in both the society and government that it is foolish for Jews to feel they are safe.

Forty years later, Germany proved that lesson's validity to anyone who didn't learn the lesson from the French.

BTW: it wasn't until 1995 that the French military admitted that Dreyfus was innocent and not until 1998 that France's Roman Catholic daily paper, La Croix, apologized for its anti-Semitic editorials during the Dreyfus affair

[liberalhistorian]

28. And there were still people in France,

believe it or not, who were against the declaring of Dreyfuss's innocence, and who had no problem at all with anti-Semitic editorials and writings, etc. The same sicko people who secretly cheer the vandalism and destruction of synagogues, Jewish shops and homes, etc., probably.

[beanball]

31. The Dreyfus affair/The civil war affair.

lets not forget who help finance the confederate states of america during the civil war,were the financiers called racist for helping to prolong slavery?

[The Magistrate]

41. Do Enlighten Me, Sir

Who financed the Confederacy?

[tinnypriv]

27. "Coming to the defence of French anti-semites"

Is slander, so don't expect any further responses from me on this topic, beyond this brief comment (which your post barely deserves):

"Why is it that you think you know more about anti-Semitism in France than either the French government or all the agencies studying racism?"

Well, I could answer the question, but since I didn't say one word about anti-semitism in France (I restricted comment to the hypocrisy of Foxman), I hardly see the need to respond to this figment of your imagination.

"I guess you didn't even get as far as the first paragraph"

Which would be why I quoted from the 4th paragraph. :dunce:

Given recent examples of the kind of mathematics you use in your arguments, your failure to understand that fourth follows first is not wholly surprising, but it does raise the amusement factor for others up a notch.

[MikeGalos]

44. You didn't say one word about anti-semtism in France?

What?

So, what was that 16 point bold type

"The Anti-Semitic Face of France"

that featured so prominently in your "post"?

I'd say that obvious turn-around says a lot for your argument.

[MikeGalos]

45. Perhaps in reading to pp 4

you missed the following:

It was encouraging several weeks ago, following the terrorist attacks on two synagogues in Istanbul and the fire-bombing of a Jewish school outside Paris, that French President Jacques Chirac finally said that the problem of anti-Semitism in France is real and needs attention.

Perhaps you started reading with paragraph 4 and continued only paragraphs evenly divisible by perfect squares.

[newyorican]

17. Too bad..

Abe and too many posters can't get past the brick wall in the first sentence.

Acknowledging a problem, without exaggerating it, is the first and necessary step to solving it.

[MikeGalos]

20. Wow

another poster who knows more about French anti-Semitism than either the head of the ADL or the President of France.

We are so lucky that we have experts like newyorican and liberalhistorian to keep of from thinking that the French Government and every agency that studies anti-Semitism know anything about the anti-Semtism in France.

[dfong63]

23. wow yourself

another poster who knows more about French anti-Semitism than either the head of the ADL or the President of France.

notice the other poster didn't say a word about France, yet you attack him/her based on the strawman that his words applied ONLY to France.

[MikeGalos]

25. OK

another poster who knows more about global anti-Semitism than either the head of the ADL or the President of France

Happy now?

[dfong63]

21. nice dodge

Fourth is the idea propounded even by some prominent Jews, that what we are witnessing is not really a recrudescence of classical anti-Semitism, but a reaction to the bad policies of the Sharon government.

talk about denial - pretending that seeing Sharon's reprehensible acts don't result in an increase in anti-Semitism, and thereby dodging the question of whether the unjust acts of Jews themselves might be to blame. the author says there has been an "explosion" of anti-Semitism of late, and it happens to correlate nicely in time with Sharon's iron boot policies against the Palestinians. purely coincidence?

[MikeGalos]

22. Guess you didn't bother to read the article

where he says it is a factor but I guess it's easier to post than to read.

[dfong63]

24. then why is he downplaying it?

[MikeGalos]

26. He isn't

but, perhaps you should read the article.

[legin]

30. Snore...

The ADL are beginning to have all most as much credibility as Newsmax.

[legin]

32. Just a polite enquirey

Does anybody think I could start up a branch office of the ADL over here whose primary goal is to counter the scurge of the 'New anti-Europeanism' which seems to gathering momentum.

There are plenty at Freerepublic who are definatly displaying racist tendancies in their blatent and irrational hatred of the French amoung others.

[Jim Sagle]

38. Hey, wake up! We have a world to save!

:hi: