Arrests foil Hamas cell plan to kill, decapitate IDF soldiers

[Gimel]

Security forces have arrested 22 Palestinians believed to be involved in a Ramallah-area Hamas cell that planned to ambush soldiers on patrol near the West Bank city, cut off their heads and negotiate an exchange for Palestinians held in Israeli jails, the Israel Defense Forces and Shin Bet security service released Tuesday.

Cell members planned to bury the soldiers' heads in pre-prepared pits because they didn't know if they would have time to escape while carrying their entire bodies.

The cell - which has been operating out of villages east of the West Bank city of Ramallah - is responsible for a series of shooting attacks that have killed 10 Israelis and wounded 12 in the Ramallah area in the past two years.
http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/spages/375191.html

_______________________________

Attacks on soldiers for such purposes, torture and inhumane treatment is forbidden by the Geneva Conventions.

[frylock]

1. geneva conventions?

that is sooooooooooo Sept. 10th.

[lefty_mcduff]

3. Damn. Wish I had have come up with that one.

Sooooooo Sept 10. Very apt.

[Gimel]

8. As of Sept 12

Anything goes? Any mutilation, torture of captives, no Geneva Conventions? Is that your line? Brave New World. (That sounds, in fact, like a Islamic terrorist training manual).

[frylock]

10. no.. that was dripping with unsaturated sarcasm..

sorry if it wasn't that clear. :eyes:

[lefty_mcduff]

2. Pretty barbaric to boot.

Seems no-one in that region wants to pay real close attention to the Geneva Conventions.

[MikeGalos]

4. Decapitation seems to be

a method of choice. I'm sure we all remember Danny Pearl's decapitation for the crime of being Jewish used as a recruiting film...

[newyorican]

5. Shocking!

Hamas cell plotting to kill IDF soldiers in the WB. Just shocking.
*click* whrrrrrr
Hamas cell plotting to kill IDF soldiers in the WB. Just shocking.
*click* whrrrrrr
Must create media noise in absence of suicide bombings.
*click* whrrrrrr
Hamas cell plotting to kill IDF soldiers in the WB. Just shocking.
*click* whrrrrrr

:boring:

[MikeGalos]

6. Sorry to bother you

without there being dead children involved. Guess Israel should let their people get killed so you'll think the story is worth your time. (But, funny, it was worth you reading and posting on it anyway)

[newyorican]

9. I hope you're not longing for...

a return to attacks (suicide bomb or other) against civilians within the Green line. I know I'm not.

[MikeGalos]

11. Well, that's a silly response

I just don't think that Jews have to die before it's worth discussing.

Your post, on the other hand, says we shouldn't be allowed to discuss anything bad that the PA or their friends do unless innocent civilians actually die. Then, only at that point, should the walls of censorship be lowered for a little while.

I find that fairly offensive.

It reminds me of the shop window sign in "The Hebrew Hammer" which read "Jews welcome - for about five minutes"

[liberalhistorian]

7. LOL!

eom

[tinnypriv]

13. You forgot this:

"Hamas plotting to get 'bargaining chips' for detainees"

Outrage!

"GOI: We will get additional bargaining chips"¹

Silence.

:boring:

-----

1. Ma'ariv, 10 November 2003. In fairness, the GOI intends to keep those kidnapped alive.

[dfong63]

12. since when does Israel respect the geneva conventions?

talk to us about the geneva conventions when Israel has withdrawn its settlers from occupied Palestinian land.

talk to us about the geneva conventions when Israel stops collective punishment.

talk to us about the geneva conventions when Israel bulldozing homes, tearing up crops and olive groves, firing missiles at apartment buildings.

[liberalhistorian]

14. Thank you!

Couldn't have said it better myself!

[Gimel]

15. English Law

which is still applied in Israel from the days of the Mandate, allows home demolitions. "Settlers" have been in Judea and Samaria for 3000 years.

[Violet_Crumble]

23. I'd be interested in seeing that bit of law...

Only for curiosities sake, though. I personally think dredging up old laws from the days of the British Empire to justify something that an occupying power is prohibited from doing is just a bit suspect....

Uh, the people now known as Palestinians have also been in that area for a hell of a long time. And yes, there was a small Jewish population present for a hell of a long time too. But that doesn't in any way mean that Israeli citizens who for the most part are not indigenous to the area but migrated from the US and Europe, or are the children and grandchildren of those who did hold that same claim...


Violet...

[Gimel]

29. Not dredging up for argument

The laws of the Mandate are in fact valid in land and property ownership.

That "small Jewish population" that you speak of, is only a small fraction of the world's Jewry. Of course, it is one people, with a common heritage, both Sephardi or Ashkenazi have a common language (Hebrew) and observe common holidays and rituals. The homeland for all of them is Israel.

http://www.jewfaq.org/toc.htm

[Violet_Crumble]

34. I asked out of curiousity, not argument...

Which I clearly stated in my post. Claiming that British Mandate laws apply to the Occupied Territories is irrelevant, which is why it seems stupid to me to argue it at all...

Yes, I'm aware that 'small Jewish population' was a small fraction of the world's Jewry. What does that have to do with anything I said or in any way negate the fact that Palestinians have also been living in that area for a hell of a long time? Gimel, Americans and Europeans are NOT indigenous to the area, no more than I'm indigenous to that area by virtue of my heritage. I have never disputed at any point that Israel is and should remain being a Jewish state, but since when has the Occupied Territories been part of Israel?


Violet...

[Gimel]

36. It couldn't be both...

Israel and territories that Israel is occupying, now, could it? What it once was is rather irrlevant to the point today.

[Violet_Crumble]

38. Why not?

The Occupied Territories are NOT part of Israel. Yr not claiming that they are, are you? I really don't understand how anyone can think they are part of Israel. And if they were part of Israel, then there's no way that Israel could be described as a democracy...

If what 'it' once was is rather irrelevant to the point today, then it makes me wonder why I see so much of people trying to make historical or biblical claims dating back thousands of years. As with any other country colonised by European settlers, what does matter is the ties of the indigenous population to the land and a hope that they'll get treated with more respect than what they get in many of these countries, including my own...

Violet...

[Gimel]

42. Guess what?

I'm not claiming that they are, and I'm not saying that they aren't. The status of the area from the Green Line to the Jordon, the so-called West Bank has a status other than Israel proper. Yet it is part of Israeli security control, and not a separate nation. The status of this land is neither a sovereign state, nor a part of Israel. The legal issues are complex, and that is one reason that the response from the Hague to the petition over the placement of the Peace Fence, separation barrier, could prove to shake up preconceptions.

[forgethell]

16. I read the article

what the hell were they going to exchange?

[tinnypriv]

18. It's in the first sentence

"Palestinians held in Israeli jails"

A detail Ha'aretz didn't include is that most of the 22 arrested have already spent some time in Israeli jails¹. So, maybe they're trying to free some friends, in their own despicable, sick-minded way.

-----

1. News First Class, http://www.nfc.co.il/archive/001-D-36774-00.html?tag=21-53-18 (Hebrew, Israel)

[forgethell]

19. With what?

the heads?

[tinnypriv]

20. Yeah

I believe something similar happened recently BTW.

[forgethell]

28. Incredible!

n/t

[Devils Advocate NZ]

17. My god! That's horrible!

I am so glad that the IDF and Shin Bet captured these men who they BELIEVE to be a part of a terrorist group that may have PLANNED to do something so terrible!

Quickly! Round up all the Palestinians and deport them, after all the "leader" of the group escaped and may try to carry out the attack!

What's that? Of course I BELIEVE the IDF and Shin Bet! After all, what would they have to gain by LYING about what a group of men may have been planning to do?

---

Before you start refering to the Geneva Conventions, perhaps you should read the part about collective punishment. The IDF have breached the Geneva Conventions for so long, I thought that Israel supporters didn't even know they existed.

Personally, I don't believe a word of this report. Tell me, what does this sentence mean:

Cell members planned to bury the soldiers' heads in pre-prepared pits because they didn't know if they would have time to escape while carrying their entire bodies.

So they were going to cut off the heads and only take the headless bodies? YEAH RIGHT! And what exactly were they going to exchange? The headless corpses? UH HUH...

This shit is just stupid.

[Gimel]

21. Your line

Quickly! Round up all the Palestinians and deport them, after all the "leader" of the group escaped and may try to carry out the attack!


has no logical meaning. Of course, you are trying to implicate this as the IDF or GOI reaction. So sad that you have such a biased view.

[Violet_Crumble]

24. It was sarcasm...

n/t

[Devils Advocate NZ]

27. To a degree it was, but...

It is also meant to highlight that there are a significan number of Israelis (even in the Knesset) who believe that ethnically cleansing the Occupied Territories (known by the more PC name "Transfer") is a necessary step towards Eretz Israel.

What is this Eretz Israel I speak of? Well, here is a map from http://www.ahavat-israel.com/ahavat/eretz/future.asp that shows what I am talking about:



The blue part is the current Israel (notice that the Gaza Strip and West Bank are included as Israeli territory) and the yellow is the expected extents of Eretz Israel. But of course, there is NO REASON for the Arabs to fear Israel, is there?

[Gimel]

31. "To your descendants I have given this land..."

Perhaps you lost the true meaning of the passage. Abraham is the father of not only Jews but Muslims as well. Ishmael is Abraham's son and all his descendants would be included in the prophesy.

This is no different from the maps that Saddam used when he sent 39 missiles to Israel during the first Gulf War (1991)

[Violet_Crumble]

35. Yeah....

There's always a point when sarcasm is done properly, which yrs was. Even here in this forum, there's been folk who try to insist that the Occupied Territories are part of Israel. Of course they never go into any depth and try to explain how Israel will retain a Jewish majority if it takes in territory with such a large non-Jewish population, and to me there only seems two logical solutions to make it so - either give up any idea of being a democracy by annexing the Occupied Territories and removing voting rights and other rights from what would be Israeli citizens, or 'transferring' most of them...

Violet...

[Gimel]

32. There is nothing to respond to

if I don't respond to the sarcasm. Sorry to have bothered you.

[Devils Advocate NZ]

25. No, I am trying to implicate that this will be the reaction...

of right wing Members of the Knesset who believe that "Transfer" should be the final solution to the Palestinian problem.

Of course, YOU have NO biases, right? :eyes:

[bluesoul]

26. Not just the RW members of the Knesset

...

[Gimel]

37. Everyone has a bias

Would you prefer to give half of your pay check to charity or 10% or 5%? Why don't you divide it equally? Why are the Aborigines in Australia dying out and have been pushed off their land? Some love to pretend that they are above any human rights issue.

[Violet_Crumble]

40. I don't really know what that question has to do with bias...

Why are the Aborigines in Australia dying out and have been pushed off their land?

I don't think they are dying out now, though in the 19th century right through to probably the 1960's with first massacre and genocide in the case of the Tasmanian Aboriginals, and then later the removing of indigenous children from their parents in order to place them with white families to further the grand plans of assimilation, there was obviously a clear intention to wipe out the indigenous population. As to why they were pushed off their land? That started with the arrival of the First Fleet and continued on as European settlement expanded with their belief that nomadic people who didn't cultivate their land or hold title-deeds to it in the European way didn't really have any ties to the land. What was done to the Aboriginals was wrong and there's still a long way to go to make amends. My question is how could anyone who doesn't feel Israel's done any wrong to the Palestinian people think that there was any wrong done to indigenous Australians? After all, there's more than a few similarities between the European settlement and dispossession of land in both cases...

Violet...

[Gimel]

41. Every wrong

Every people has been wronged. There is no one on earth that can say he or she hasn't been "wronged" at one time or another, and many almost every day. I've never said that the Palestinians haven't been "wronged" either. Show me where I ever said that.

On edit: Obviously the bias was against the indiginous people of Australia. You said that they were considered "unattached" because they lacked western credentials like ownership deeds. That, of course, is simply and excuse.

[meti57b]

30. my reading of this rather gruesome account is that ....

the heads would be buried in pre-prepared pits that would either be a hiding place for the heads so they could be recovered and used later or the pit would preserve them in some way for later purposes. The bodies would be left at the place the person was killed.

[MikeGalos]

33. I'd say the only difference

between the Mafia and Hamas is that the Mafia is sane.

[drdon326]

39. And then there's the obvious...

the mafia has some code of ethics and don't kill
indiscriminately.

[Come Together]

22. Unfortunately,

this is what happens when Israel's enemies know that Israel is willing to exchange live prisoners for dead ones. It's far easier to manage dead soldiers - they don't put up a struggle, try to escape, eat, etc. So they must believe it is not in their interest to expend any efforts at keeping their captives alive when they know that Israel will pay a price to retrieve even her dead soldiers.

:puke: :puke: :puke: