Surgeon Blinded by Bomb After Healing Militants

[Cry Freedom]

AFULA, Israel (Reuters) - Israeli surgeon Shmuel Yurfest has saved the lives of many people, including an injured Palestinian suicide bomber and a militant bomb-maker whose severed hand he reattached in an intricate operation.

But after decades fighting for the lives of his patients, the 48-year-old vascular surgeon is now waging his own personal battle after being badly wounded in a Palestinian suicide bombing six months ago that left him virtually blind and deaf.

In May -- about a year after Yurfest saved the dismembered hand of an Islamic Jihad bomb-maker -- the veteran surgeon left work at a hospital in the Galilee city of Afula to return a film to a video shop at a local shopping mall.

(snip)

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml;jsessionid=5KW2WVQW3PSE0CRBAE0CFEY?type=ourWorldNews&storyID=4041313

[drdon326]

1. N I C E ......real nice.....

Is there a word to describe this??

[Cry Freedom]

2. karma?

[Scurrilous]

24. It's funny you should....

...mention the word Karma. Transmigration does seem to be your thing, eh?

[Devils Advocate NZ]

3. This happed six months ago?

So what makes this news?

While I feel terrible that a surgeon, who embodied the ideal of helping others, was so severely injured by Palestinian terrorists, I can't help but think of peace campaigners, reporters, and aid workers who have over the years been so severely injured and killed by the IDF.

Both sides have much to be ashamed of.

[Cry Freedom]

4. What happened six months ago

put in motion the after-affects on this doctor as so many others are just beginning to handle as terrorist bombing after terrorist bombing wounds or murders the innocent

[Devils Advocate NZ]

5. What about the Palestinians?

Show some concern for them and I might be inclined to believe that your motives are pure.

Israel has brought a lot of what is happening now onto itself. It was formed out of murder and ethnic cleaning, and hasn't improved much since.

However, the Palestinians are not blameless. They too have participated in horrendous crimes and the legitimacy of a Palestinian state formed out of such crimes would be every bit as questionable as Israel's.

So, the problem is, how can BOTH sides be cleansed of their past wrongs and allowed to move into the future with peace and mutual respect?

Tell me, what is it you hope to accomplish by further demonising the Palestinians? We all agree that violence merely begets violence, and that all people should be free of terror. So what do YOU, a supporter of Israel, want US, the people who do not support violence by either side, to accept?

Do you want us to accept eradication of Palestinians from their homeland? Do you want us to accept the forcing of Palestinians to live as second class citizens in a state that refuses to allow them an equal say?

What is it you hope to accomplish?

[Cry Freedom]

6. Get real

I am not posting on DU to prove my motives to you.

This story caught my eye because of the doctor having saved so many Palestinians.

I am not demonizing the Palestinians; I am posting a report of interest on I/P.

All I wanted to accomplish was a bit of empathy for the man. Instead I get your assumptions and attacks.

[Devils Advocate NZ]

7. Empathy for the man? But no empathy for the Palestinians?

Can I ask what you meant when you responded to the question:

"Is there a word to describe this?"

With the word:

"Karma"

When I see that word used like this, I tend to think that the person who used it is saying the person being referred to "deserved it" or is "paying the price".

Were you saying that this doctor was paying the price for having operated on Palestinians? If so, I think you and I both know that you were not trying to generate empathy for anything but the hatred of Palestinians.

But forget all that. I will take you at your word and that you are not intending to demonise Palestinians. So, what do you want us to do? Do you want us to be angry that this man was injured? Why do you want us to be angry? What will that accomplish? Is it supposed to make us less angry when the IDF does something equally reprehensible?

I mean what exactly was the point of posting this article about an event that happened half a year ago?

[Cry Freedom]

9. responding to the only thing new here

karma was used as sarcasm

this forum gets pretty tough

however, I do swear to you that I did not mean it the way you rightfully took it if I hadn't been trying to be sardonic

[Scurrilous]

8. Empathy?

All I wanted to accomplish was a bit of empathy for the man.

Who are you trying to kid? When DrDon asked if there was a word to describe what happened to this man you merrily chimed in with "Karma?"

Since Karma represents the ethical consequence of the force generated by a person's actions, one can only assume that you meant that this man somehow deserved his fate. That is NOT empathy.

[Cry Freedom]

10. see post 9

n/t

[ParticipatoryDem]

38. Israel has brought a lot of what is happening now onto itself?

There is no justification for the suicide bombing of innocents.

You statement gives aid and comfort to the terrorist suicide bombers and is sickening.

[Darranar]

40. He is not justifying them.

[Name removed]

18. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Cry Freedom]

20. thx

I've already been so attacked on forum and PM that I wondered if I'd entered some unreal zone

:pals:

[Devils Advocate NZ]

22. Defence of the suicide bombers?

What did I say could even remotely be considered a defence of the suicide bombers?

Are you suggesting that even mentioning victims of the IDF is a defence of the suicide bombers?

Do you believe that Palestinians and anyone who tries to help them deserve to be maimed and killed? How does that make YOU any better than the suicide bombers?

[Muddleoftheroad]

34. Yes, defense

It took three posts before you misdirected this thread away from discussion of how someone who had tried to treat everyone in this conflict humanely and who was victimized by a suicide bomber.

And yes, trying in the same breath to claim that those who defend citizens from suicide bombers are like them IS a defense of the bombers.

I am not against the Palestinians and really don't wish anyone except terrorists killed or maimed.

[Devils Advocate NZ]

36. Uh huh...

If pointing out that there are innocent victims on all sides is the same as "defending suicide bombers", then your defence of the killing of innocent Palestinians is the same as defending suicide bombers. Welcome to the club.

The IDF doesn't try to defend Israel against suicide bombers. They are defending the illegal and immoral ethnic cleansing of Palestinian lands. When the IDF removes the illegal settlements and returns to Israeli territory, THEN I might believe your assertion.

Right now they are merely war criminals.

[Muddleoftheroad]

37. You distracted a thread about something horrible

And you are surprised that you are criticized for it.

In the meantime, Israel IS defending Israel against the endless hordes of Palestinian terrorists that not only want to kill Israeli men, women and children, but also to destroy the very state of Israel.

[ParticipatoryDem]

39. What did I say could even remotely be considered a defence of the suicide

"Israel has brought a lot of what is happening now onto itself"

Disgusting.

[Gimel]

27. Peace campaigners, reporters and aid workers

have also been killed by Palestinian suicide bombers. A well known Israeli peace activist was murdered at the Mazah Cafe in Haifa last spring. Reporter was murdered outside Mike's place and aid workers are often hit by secondary explosions. It is done on purpose. Nice to forget those things if you can, however.

[Devils Advocate NZ]

32. So, what yoiu are saying is...

they do it, so we can do it too?

How is that going to help the situation? As for your determination that they do it on purpose, they may do, then again they may not. Does the IDF do it on purpose? It sure looks like it sometimes.

The question is, why can you only see it when it is Palestinians who are responsible? Do you deny that the IDF has commited such crimes in the past (including the very recent past)?

[drdon326]

11. You know...

its NOT out of the realm of possibities that the bomb
was planted by the persons he saved or someone who knew
the persons he saved.

Ironic??..no that word doesnt cover it.

just sickening.

[Cry Freedom]

12. I honestly hadn't thought of that

but it makes sense

[Devils Advocate NZ]

13. Yes it is sickening isn't it?

Just like when a child is shot for throwing a stone...

Or a reporter is shot for trying to tell the world what is going on...

Or a peace campaigner is crushed by a bulldozer for trying to prevent the destruction of a Palestinian's home?

So, tell me, should I be angry enough about this doctor's injuries to not care about the Palestinians and people who try to help them?

Edited for typos

[Cry Freedom]

14. Or people die at bus stops

or in buses

or in cafes

There are no shoulds.

If you can't feel for all people, what's the point?

[Devils Advocate NZ]

15. Who said I can't feel for all people?

In fact you will see that in every post I have made to this thread I have talked about the suffering of both sides.

YOU on the other hand have talked of only one side. Why is that?

Edited for typos - I am using an unfamiliar keyboard and my fingers keep hitting the wrong keys :-)

[Cry Freedom]

17. feeling very overwhelmed here

not a lack of empathy; a fear of the anger against Israel

I do care for all who suffer

[Devils Advocate NZ]

25. So tell me...

I do understand your fear. Israel IS a target for many who see oppression and want to fight it, without considering the views of the Israelis.

What I want to make clear to you though, is that many people see that the Israelis had every right to fear for their nation and their lives, but so did the Palestinians.

They had NO choice at all in this. Foreigners decreed that they were to lose their land, foreigners came and killed them for not wanting to give it up, and now foreigners keep telling them that THEY are the "evil" ones and that they have to make sacrifices, although they have done nothing but sacrifice since this whole thing was put in motion.

They get no help from their co-religionists who see them either as a nuisance, or a convenient martyr to a cause that they never really wanted to be a part of in the first place, and they are made the target of some of the most devastating weapons devised by man.

For every Israeli that fears that they may be the victim of a suicide bomb, there is a Palestinian who fears that they may be the victim of a helicopter missile or a tank main gun round or a sniper's bullet.

They are both terrified of each other, and they are both becoming more and more desperate in their violence.

So how does posting the article that started this thread help that? Does it help Palestinians to fell less fearful that Israelis want to eradicate them from their homeland, and do to them what was done over a thousand years ago to the Jews - scatter them to the four winds to live as nomads in foreign lands?

How does it encourage the Palestinians to resist the fear that leads to hatred and violence? Alternately, how does it help the Israelis to do the same?

How is ANYONE helped by increasing the hatred and fear present in both peoples' hearts?

[Cry Freedom]

28. Okay

"So how does posting the article that started this thread help that?"

It wasn't intended to be that global ... just a personal story.



"They get no help from their co-religionists who see them either as a nuisance, or a convenient martyr to a cause that they never really wanted to be a part of in the first place, and they are made the target of some of the most devastating weapons devised by man."

Yes, definitely. This is part of what I have a problem with. Why is only Israel blamed when other Arab countries have used them and not helped them ... it's disgusting. Reading this forum, I get the idea that a lot of posters don't recognize or even believe what you wrote in that paragraph.

[Devils Advocate NZ]

30. Since when is only Israel blamed?

No-one denies that Arab countries have done nothing to help the Palestinians, but plenty deny that Israel has done anything wrong. This is why you don't see posts from Palestinian supporters arguing against such accusations.

However, what you will see is people arguing that this fact (the lack of real help from other Arab nations) has anything to do with the acts of the IDF. Just saying "well the other Arabs aren't helping the Palestinians" does not excuse the direct actions of Israel against the Palestinians.

Just because the neighbours didn't stop a husband from beating his wife, doesn't mean that the husband's action is any less reprehensible.

Another point though, what is the help you expect the Arab nations to provide? Do you want them to absorb the Palestinian people, so that Israel can take their land? Is that the help you are expecting?

The Palestinians just want to live in their own land free from the oppression of Israel. being absorbed into other Arab nations is NOT what they want, nor will they accept it. So what do you want them to do?

[drdon326]

16. Uhhhh......

i didnt say you should be angry about anything.

The thread is on this doc.

if this thread bothers you this much , maybe you
should consider ignoring it??

sheesh

[Cry Freedom]

19. Question

obvious on pro-Palestinian threads, messages appear on-topic but that on pro-Israel threads, sources, posters are attacked and threads are taken off-topic and belittled; just my observation

Is that how it's done here?

[Devils Advocate NZ]

29. Where exactly was the thread taken off-topic?

I asked you numerous times why you posted the article, what you actually wanted us to say, and you refused to answer!

The topic of this thread was the article you posted. So what is it you want us to think about it? I agree, this doctors injuries were terrible. Now what? How can injuries such as this be prevented in the future?

Do you think that revenge against the Palestinains, even those that had nothing to do with this man's injuries, is desirable? What?

[Scurrilous]

31. You're not going to get an answer.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=user_profiles&u_id=136685

[bluesoul]

33. Haha

this person doesn't stop. Been tombstoned like 20 times before ;)

[Devils Advocate NZ]

21. The thread doesn't bother me at all.

I am merely trying to ascertain why an event that happened six months ago was posted now, especially as terrorist bombings have all but ceased altogether.

I keep seeing these posts from ardent supporters of Israel, and I am just wondering what you want us to say?

What do YOU want us to say? Do you want us to say "Those terrible Palestinians! The IDF should have free rein to do whatever they want to them"? Do you want us to campaign for the end of Palestinian rights, or the "Transfer" of Palestinians from their homeland?

What exactly is it that posts like this are meant to accomplish?

Now I have another question as well: Why don't Israel supporters (well, at least the two on this thread at the moment) not want to answer this question?

What is it you don't want to tell us?

Do you not know why you post these articles? Or are you ashamed of your motives for doing so?

[drdon326]

23. This is a forum, as you know...

this is a wonderful speech...can i use it next time there
is a pro-pal thread??

or better yet, there is a pathetic made up story of some
woman claiming her twins died at childbirth due to israeli
roadblocks. Its a bogus story that was blasted out by facts.
Feel free to use that speech on that thread.I will have a
profound respect for you if you do that.

at least this thread is real.

[drdon326]

26. Here's the thread...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=124&topic_id=41156


tell me whats the meaning of this story??

Please feel free to vent your outrage over this thread..
which to my sad amazement is still open.

[Devils Advocate NZ]

35. Having read that thread, I did a little looking around on google.

There is of course a problem with the denials that the story is true: This woman was going into premature labour. No matter how much you spin it, premature babies require far more specialist treatment than a simple maternity hospital can provide.

It is not beyond the realms of possibility that such a woman would want to go to a larger hospital in the closest city (ie Nablus)

Still, none of this has anything to do with the current thread.

[Lithos]

41. To be fair

There is really no difference between this type of article and those which are also reflective about Rachel Corrie, Tom Hurndall. While the causes are different, relive a very tragic and personal nightmares which have not only engulfed the victim, but also their families. You could easily expand this to include any and all stories about Lamis Tayser Ibrahim and her two dead babies, Lavina Shapira, Bahira Daraghmeh, or Noam Leibovitch to name a few.

Perhaps to answer your question in a fair matter, it is best to look at what all of these do which is remind us it is a conflict, what is going on is not a healthy place and that real people are suffering and dying.

L-