Livnat says phony Likud activists endanger state

[Gimel]

The right-wing extremists and criminal elements that have infiltrated the Likud pose a serious danger to the state and its ruling party, Education Minister Limor Livnat warned Sunday, on the eve of Monday's Likud convention at Tel Aviv's Mann Auditorium.

Prime Minister Ariel Sharon is to give the convention's concluding address at 8 p.m. after four hours of speeches by Likud activists raising proposed changes to the party charter that will be voted on at the next convention in February. No MKs will be permitted to speak besides Sharon, in order to deny the activists a platform.

Livnat singled out right-wing activist Moshe Feiglin's Jewish Leadership Movement, which submitted a proposal that would ban Likud MKs from running with the party if they vote against the party platform. If such a motion passes, any MK voting for a Palestinian state or territorial concessions would be exiled from the party. Feiglin was abroad and could not be reached for comment.

<snip>

The 100-page booklet includes many proposals. Ra'anana Deputy Mayor Uzi Cohen's ideas include transferring Palestinians to a new state that would be carved between Jordan and Syria, giving the central committee the right to choose the Likud's leader, and increasing the number of MKs to 160.

<snip>

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1073189811779

Uzi Cohen's proposal is not a part of Likud platform or ideology. It has very negative possibility of being passed within the Likud party convention.

[bluesoul]

1. It seems to me

you're trying to defend the Likud, as though without those people they a good political choice. They're still very much RW, so however you turn it around they'r just like the neocons in the USA...

[Gimel]

2. A clearer view

I'm trying to put the al Jazeera article in perspective. This is not a major proposal or element within the Likud party. The Likud is not right-wing, although there are RW members within the Likud. There is zero chance that Cohen's proposal will get any support in the Knesset. It is not a US political party. That should not be the association at all.

[bluesoul]

3. It is not a RW party?

Really? By what standards?

[Gimel]

4. Not by your's /nt

:-)

[bluesoul]

5. If Likud is considered left wing in Israel

then all I can say is god help the liberals over there....

[bluesoul]

7. So Gimel is it a conservative

party or not by your views?

[Gimel]

9. As has been noted

On this forum, and I'm sure that if you have any background in political science you would realize, there is flexibility on this, and especially from political system to political system.

Likud, with Ariel Sharon is more centrist than another Likud government might be, say a Likud government with Netenyahu. Sharon has pledged to form a centrist government, with the widest possible segment of political views.

Likud is definitely more "conservative" than labor, but in issues of defense as well as "the fence" there is a convergence of opinion across the political spectrum. I'm sure it matters little to you if Sharon favors tax reform or not.

[bluesoul]

10. What matters is the real policy

of the party. And all I see is a RW (to a certain extent even extreme) party...

[Gimel]

11. Everything is relative/nt

nt

[Violet_Crumble]

12. Nonsense...

You don't need a background in political science to realise there's some flexibility in many political systems. But not so much flexibility that anyone wanting to be taken seriously would say that Likud's not a conservative party. Some leaders may be more conservative than others, but that still doesn't change the fact that it's a conservative party...

Over here Liberal is definately more conservative than Labor, but in issues of foreign policy and sucking up to the US, there is a convergence of opinion across the political spectrum. In fact, it was a Labor PM who committed troops to Gulf War Part 1 without consulting Cabinet. I guess that makes the Labor Party conservative, eh? Our current very conservative PM favoured massive tax reforms that were carried out during his last term. That still doesn't make him anything else but a conservative, nor does it make Sharon or Likud some sort of centrist moderates who aren't conservative....

Violet...

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Violet_Crumble]

18. I think yr going to have to explain why there's no similarities...

...because I think the political spectrums in both Israel and Australia would be much more similar to each other than, say, either of them to the US....


I assume that domestic tax reform doesn't particularly interest many folk at all who aren't directly affected by it, which is why I'm a bit confused as to why you brought it up at all, that's all...

As for sticking to facts, the fact is that Likud is a conservative party...

Violet...

[Gimel]

19. Internal tax measures

are of the interest of the people of the state. That's why I mentioned it. This is not at all the issue of this thread, but as you insist, Labor would be more concerned with welfare issues than would the Likud. Of course tax reform is an interest of both parties, but the particular issues would vary. It was only an example, and perhaps to say "a specific tax reform package" would be more accurate.

I have no knowledge of Australian politics, so I can't comment on your speculation.

[Violet_Crumble]

20. If you know nothing about Australian politics...

...then how would you be able to claim that there's no similarities in their political spectrums?

Yes, I know taxation measures are of interest to taxpayers in their own countries. But I was just a bit confused as to why you brought it up, seeing as how yr post was trying to tell bluesoul that Likud isn't a conservative party. If you want to talk tax reform, count me out. I prefer not to talk shop when I don't have to :)

Violet...

[Gimel]

21. As I expalined

I brought it up as a function of government which is not of interest to this particular discussion. I said that Likud was a conservative party. I do not consider it RW, however.

I hope that I don't have to say this again.

[Violet_Crumble]

22. I think I got that the first time you said it...

Y'know, that you were bringing something totally irrelevent to the discussion into things. You did NOT say that Likud was a conservative party. What you said was they were more "conservative" than Labor. You can consider the party not to be right-wing, but the reality is that they're a right-wing party...


Violet...

[Violet_Crumble]

6. Of course it's a right-wing party...

It's just as much a right-wing party as the Liberal Party here is:

"The Likud (Union) was formed by the joining together of Free Center, Laam and Gahal in preparation for the 1973 elections, the Likud has become one of Israel’s major conservative parties."

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Politics/LikudParty.html

Violet...

[Violet_Crumble]

8. Do you know where I can find the latest copy of the Likud platform?

I'd like to see what this ultimately reasonable party that isn't right-wing has to say. Of course it'd never ever have said anything like this, right?

"The Jordan River shall be the eastern border of the State of Israel, south of Lake Kinneret. This will be the permanent border between the State of Israel and the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan."

http://www.us-israel.org/jsource/Politics/likud.html

Gotta love these Israeli liberals!! ;)

Violet...

[Gimel]

13. Whatever platform

emerges from the convention is better than one that is six years old. However, I don't think a political platform necessarily has the views of the party leaders written in stone.

[Violet_Crumble]

14. So the 1996 platform is right now the current one?

Okay. I'll be interested in seeing what any new one says...

"However, I don't think a political platform necessarily has the views of the party leaders written in stone."

Strangely enough, neither do I, but I'll keep that comment in mind next time the PLO Covenant from the early 1960's gets posted here in full ;)

Violet...

[Gimel]

15. I have no idea

I'm not a Likudnik.

[Violet_Crumble]

16. Oh...

Y'know, you don't have to be a Likudnik to know something like that, and I certainly hope my asking if the 1996 Platform was the current one wasn't read as saying that yr a Likudnik. After all, to be a Likudnik someone would have to have voted for Sharon and defend everything he says and does, not have a knowledge of their countries political parties...

Violet...