At what point is Israel a liability?

[KissMyAsscroft]

I was talking to a friend yesterday (a conservative) and one of the few things we agree on is that Israel is a huge burden on the US.

What exactly is the point of out support for Israel?

Do we get anything other than world hatred in return? Is it the right thing to do? Should we contiune giving them billions, or should we cut them off and let them fend for themselves?

I don't understand why this one country gets all of our help and other people including our own citizens don't get all of this aid. Would America tolerate any other country getting this same support?

I'm not looking for a flame war here, but real answers.

What's in it for us?

[Loonman]

1. Cut them off

Palestinians too.

If they want to kill each other, they can do it on their own dime

[Muddleoftheroad]

3. Yeah, why worry about others

After all, nothing bad happens to the Jewish people when they are abandoned, right?

[Loonman]

5. Frankly

I couldn't care less.

[Muddleoftheroad]

7. Obviously

"Am I my brother's keeper?" (Gen 4:9)

[Name removed]

32. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[rman]

13. yeah, nothing bad happens to the American people either,

when they're abandoned.

If the US admin is worried about others,
then why is so much of US foreign aid going to Israel instead of actual 3rd world nations?

[Muddleoftheroad]

17. We should send more aid

That doesn't mean we should give less to Israel.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

29. out of YOUR taxes?

Interesting. MOTR. I had you pegged for the "lower taxes" type, guess I was wrong - my apologies...

[xchrom]

2. financial support for israel

must stop. as well as military support.

[Muddleoftheroad]

4. Thankfully, you aren't in charge

[waylon]

6. We give Israel

2 billion a year in aid, last I heard. I think our committment to them stems from first, they are the only democracy in the region. Second, we are largely responsible for the establishment of Israel. Third, we have a large Jewish voting block in the country.

I would just as soon cut them off but I wont pretend to foresee how that would impact the region. Without our support they may be easy targets for every nut in the region.

I think we need to focus on getting Arafat out so there will at least be a chance of peace between them. Sharon might consider leaving too, start fresh!

[Muddleoftheroad]

You left out a key point

Israel is and has been our only reliable ally in the region. That was the case during the Cold War and it is today as well.

[drdigi420]

22. HAS been, not is

they are no longer an ally of democracy as their right wing govt has declared terrorist war against the palestianians. ALL of them, not just the terrorists.

[Muddleoftheroad]

27. The Palestinians

The majority of Palestinians support the terror. And a good chunk of them belong to the terror network that is supported, endorsed and assisted by their leader.

It is not terrorism to defeat terrorists.

[dutchdemocrat]

33. Oh and Turkey isn't?

Or Jordan for that matter. Cut them off I say. Israel is not democracy in action.

And America already has Iraq. Israel is no longer needed.

[Muddleoftheroad]

8. You left out a key point

Israel is and has been our only reliable ally in the region. That was the case during the Cold War and it is today as well.

[Loonman]

14. Were they an ally when they attacked the Liberty?

http://www.ussliberty.org/

[Loonman]

9. Israel is not a democracy

Democracy implies all people are represented.

Palestinians are not represented.

[Muddleoftheroad]

11. Absolutely wrong

All CITIZENS of Israel have the vote. Non-Jewish Israelis (one million of them) can vote.

[rman]

15. what's the difference between "represented" and "voting"?

i mean, Dems can vote to.

[lcordero]

18. They got 10 billion in between grants and loan guarantees

[mistertrickster]

10. Pat Buchanan, when he isn't pretending to be a conservative on TV,

says that the US Congress is "Israeli occupied terroritory."

When does unstinting support for Israel become a liability--I think we saw that on 9-11. Would Al Qaeda have attacked us if we hadn't supported Israel against Palastine all those years? After UN resolution after UN resolution--the same resolutions Bush Co. used to invade Iraq--had been ignored and are still being ignored?

It's hard to say because no one can fathom the mindset of fundamentalist hate that leads to suicide bombing against civilians. But I think it's fair to say that it wouldn't have hurt . . .

[Muddleoftheroad]

12. Pat Buchanan?

Did I make a right turn somewhere here?

[LeahMira]

24. 9/11 had nothing to do with Israel

Would Al Qaeda have attacked us if we hadn't supported Israel against Palastine all those years?

Yes. Absolutely. If you look at the communications coming from Al Qaeda you would see that the Israeli-Palestinian conflict was not at the top of the list of their grievances. It was mentioned some time later, almost as an afterthought. If you actually believe that Al Qaeda gives a horse's patoot about the Palestinians, there's a bridge in Brooklyn you can buy. Interested?

After UN resolution after UN resolution--the same resolutions Bush Co. used to invade Iraq--had been ignored and are still being ignored?

How many UN resolutions has the US ignored? How many UN conventions has the US declined to ratify? How many were ratified only after numerous amendments and understandings and reservations had been stipulated by the US that worked to make our ratification virtually meaningless?

Pat Buchanan, when he isn't pretending to be a conservative on TV, ...
says that the US Congress is "Israeli occupied terroritory."

Pat Buchanan is an unrepentant anti-Semite.

It's hard to say because no one can fathom the mindset of fundamentalist hate that leads to suicide bombing against civilians.

It's not hard to say at all. Suicide bombings are the last resort of a people who feel that their voices are being ignored when they try to be heard through the approved channels. You might speak of frustration, despair, a sense of nothing left to lose, and a life that is no longer seen as worth living under conditions that appear resistant to any kind of change.

[indepat]

16. In the early-mid '50s? If not, when they blew the US naval warship

out of the water? I am neither an anti-Semite nor anti-Jewish, but do question some of their policies and actions, just as I question some of the policies and actions of my own government.

[Hamlette]

19. I'm having a hard time with our support too

I was reading a book on terrorism last night, a scholarly work by a Jewish woman (I'll get the title if you're interested.) She said the Jewish settlements in the Gaza strip have gone into the nursery business building large numbers of huge greenhouses. The Jews are .5% (one half of one percent) of the population on the Gaza strip and consume 70% of the water! In an area of the world where water is at a premium it has left the Palestinians without enough water.

You wonder why they hate them and us?

What's that all about?

I would like to hear arguments on the other side. I agree we should support countries in need and who share our values and the history of the Jews make them seem more worthy to me. Up to a point. And I think I'm crossing it. This is starting to look more like our support for the Shah and Pinochet. Stinky.

[blindpig]

20. 1973 n/t

[drdigi420]

21. Isreal is a terrorist state

Sharon's terrorism towards the Palestinians is just as bad as the Palestinian terrorism towards Isrealis.

Supporting one terrorist state against another is wrong, counterproductive, and causes MORE pain and suffering for both entities.

Let's not forget that Isreal has violated many many more UN resolutions than Iraq ever did. Isreal thumbs it's nose at us when we try to garner peace.

We should demand that Sharon step down before they get one more dollar.

[madrchsod]

23. wow 22 plus posts

and it hasn`t been locked or moved..haven`t seen this in awhile...

[dutchdemocrat]

35. Critisism of Israel is not allowed here?

Oh... sorry that's anti-semitic right?

[mike_c]

25. we passed that point 30 years ago....

USS Liberty.

[readmylips]

26. One reason for attacking Iraq: Israel Liability..

Israel was suppost to have been the open gate for an imperial takeover of the USA capitalists. All we've gotten from Israel is war and more war at the expense of USA citizens. Israel has been a miserable Failure. I'm for Jews having their own country but not at the expense of such a long war, not at the expense of so many innocent people dead, and not at the ultimate expense of US citizen's money. I hate boosh even more, when he takes such a hard stand for Israel and that murderer Sharon.

[Loonman]

28. Notice how when you mention the USS Liberty

Israel supporters have no defense for that?

Plenty of excuses, but no defense.

[Gimel]

30. What about

the Columbia? It killed an Israeli and an Indian national too. Can you answer that one?

[leftofthedial]

31. oh, along about 1946

it became a liability.

During the era of Israeli occupation of the West Bank, this support has become untenable. As long as Israel is a fascist occupier, our support of them is part of the problem, not part of the solution.

[Walt Starr]

34. IMO, there is nothing in it for the U.S.

Cut 'em off completely. Not one thin dime more to Israel.

[BiggJawn]

36. 1967

They pretty much proved they were capable of handling their own playground fights then.

[undergroundrailroad]

37. Locking per I/P Guidelines.

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