'My life with Hamas' by Welsh gran

[drdon326]

http://icwales.icnetwork.co.uk/0100news/0200wales/content_objectid=13810187_method=full_siteid=50082_page=1_headline=-%2DMy%2Dlife%2Dwith%2DHamas%2D%2Dby%2DWelsh%2Dgran-name_page.html

WELSH grandmother has become one of the most militant voices in condemning Israel's policies in the West Bank and Gaza.

Anne Gwynne, a former bank manager in Aberystwyth, has lived as an ambulance nurse in the West Bank town of Nablus.

The 65-year-old claims Israeli soldiers have wounded her and threatened to both frame her for carrying explosives and to rape her.

Ms Gwynne has become well known in the pro-Palestinian internet community but has been condemned by critics for defending the use of violence, including, in some circumstances, suicide bombing.

She claims Hamas is seen by Palestinians as the true representatives of their nation.

She told The Western Mail, "Palestine is Hamas and Hamas is Palestine. The Palestinian Authority is just a tool of Israel. They are nothing, except they hold the purse-strings.

.........................................................

lovely...a hamas wannabe.

[Jim Sagle]

1. Why doesn't the old hag mind her own fuckin' business?

[donsu]

5. the old hag is minding her business

the business of opposing the criminal Sharon gang.

[Jim Sagle]

6. On a scale of global criminals, Sharon is a turnstile jumper.

[bluesoul]

7. Nope

he's a war criminal. I could hardly say that for the PM's of 95% of European countries for example

[mobuto]

12. In other words

you're saying you support Hamas?

[DuctapeFatwa]

2. threatening to rape a 65 year old grandmother?

sharon's thugs make Hamas look like a Unitarian yoga class.

[Muddleoftheroad]

3. You left out a word, "CLAIMED"

Given her other statements and activities, her comments are highly suspect.

[DuctapeFatwa]

4. I will believe a welsh grandma over sharon's goon squads any day

hell, I'll believe a LAWYER over sharon's goon squads.

[Muddleoftheroad]

19. Which explains so much

[JohnLocke]

35. Well, that's revealing...

[Jim Sagle]

8. Sharon's guys and gals are boy scouts compared to Hamas.

[mobuto]

14. Oh yes

What an incredibly foolish thing to say!

You're saying this alleged verbal threat is far more serious a crime than - I don't know, say blowing up a school bus or a pizza parlor or a bar mitzvah?

[Jack Rabbit]

22. It's not a more serious crime

Nevertheless, if somebody threatend to rape my grandmother over a disagreement about her politics, I'd still take a dim view of it.

[mobuto]

36. You said, and I quote:

"sharon's thugs make Hamas look like a Unitarian yoga class"

If you weren't trying to say that Hamas' crimes were less serious than alleged threats by an Israeli, then you should have phrased yourself differently. Because that's exactly the message communicated in your post.

Nevertheless, if somebody threatend to rape my grandmother over a disagreement about her politics, I'd still take a dim view of it.

Oh quit the romantic cult of domesticity crap. This woman isn't superior to the rest of us, just because she's had grandkids. I don't know about you, but if my grandmother endorsed the wanton killing of women, children and other noncombattants, I'd throw her out of my house.

[Jack Rabbit]

40. Reply

You said, and I quote: "sharon's thugs make Hamas look like a Unitarian yoga class".

No, I did not say that. DuctapeFatwa did. Moreover, I do not agree with it.

Oh quit the romantic cult of domesticity crap. This woman isn't superior to the rest of us, just because she's had grandkids.

I didn't say she was.

I don't know about you, but if my grandmother endorsed the wanton killing of women, children and other noncombattants, I'd throw her out of my house.

My grandmother, who, in fact, long ago went somewhere where no one can threaten or harm her, held some political views I found rather annoying. Nevertheless, she was still my grandmother and I would not have let anyone harm her nor would I have even joked about throwing her out of the house. That is repugnant.

I'm afraid romanticism of family relationships runs rather deep with me.

[mobuto]

44. Apology

You did not say what I said you said. That was indeed DuctapeFatwa.

My grandmother, who, in fact, long ago went somewhere where no one can threaten or harm her, held some political views I found rather annoying. Nevertheless, she was still my grandmother and I would not have let anyone harm her nor would I have even joked about throwing her out of the house. That is repugnant.

Well, that's where we'll have to disagree. I can feel love for people with whom I disagree strongly. In fact that describes most of my rather close-knit family. But you've got to draw a line somewhere. And I think supporting mass killings of women and children certainly seems like as good a line as any. Filial piety has its place, this just isn't it.

[Gimel]

21. Far cry

your post replaces reality with shock. This effect gets momentary attention, but lacks substance being replaced with utter disbelief. I doubt that there was wuch a "threat". Many things are said, mistaken and claimed in anger, but there was not such threat.

Rape of Israeli grandmothers by Arabs do happen, however.

[DuctapeFatwa]

23. I acknowledge that it is hard to defend threatening grandmothers with rape

And as always, I recognize that those charged with such a task do not it easy.

Could you repost the links to the rapes of Israeli grandmothers by Arabs?

On edit, maybe this is what you are referring to?

This is not the first time Israeli governments have been embarrassed by inaccurate stories in the country's fractious media. ...

The Israeli media is lively and highly competitive but notoriously inaccurate. A television reporter declared Bashar Assad's father, Syrian President Hafez Assad, to be dead fully five years before his actual demise. A Jerusalem Post reporter "discovered" weapons of mass destruction while advancing with the U.S. army into Iraq earlier this year. A Yediot Ahronoth reporter was forced to resign after concocting a story about the rape and forced divorce of a religious woman on her way to a ritual bath...

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2004/01/03/MNGO942S871.DTL

[Gimel]

29. No, it was real

There are rapes of Israeli women by Arabs, although it is not popular to discuss it here.

One occurred a few months ago in a community near where I live. I don't know if it was reported in an on line paper. The woman was an elderly grandmother who opened the door to give the Arab gardener a drink of water. He forced his way in and raped her. He was apprehended, however, as it was not difficult to spot an Arab man on a bicycle with gardening tools.

[DuctapeFatwa]

30. Oh you mean an individual criminal act, as opposed to

an armed representative of a government acting on behalf of his employer.

[Gimel]

31. The welsh gram

Was she raped? did she say she was raped? or is she just claiming that someone said something off color? That's not only unsupportable it's unreliable and there is no proof.

[DuctapeFatwa]

32. It is not really in the interest of ordinary Israelis

Trying to combat teenage suicide bombers with big guns and tanks and bombs wielded by huge mobs of undisciplined brutal beasts is counter-productive, and such an "army" is more of a danger to the people they are supposed to protect than to the perceived "enemy."

The same strategy is being implemented in Iraq, and with the same predictable results. Loosing hordes of thugs bereft of moral compass to commit more atrocities against anyone who opposes yesterday's atrocity not only does not result in the submissive slaves that the regimes desire, it endangers the regime's own citizens.

It is difficult to suppose that the regimes are unaware of this.

[Gimel]

34. Not the teens

The teens are the stooges, the brainwashed victims. I'm sure by now you are aware of the dynamics involved.

I sure wouldn't use duct tape to fight the leaders of Hamas and IJ or Al Aqsa Martyers brigade. They could blow a little duck to pieces.

"Today...you are the chosen one...you are chosen for a mission that will lead you to glory!! A Jihadi". The threat of propaganda is the worst. Knocking out the transmitter tower of the PA was the first thing Israeli army did. Unfortunately, they are again on the air, broadcasting propaganda.

The Wall is the only solution that will be effective. Soldiers shouldn't have to go into the PA areas to arrest terrorists.

[DuctapeFatwa]

37. The wall will be a physical prison for the Palestinians

who already have nothing to lose, and for whom death is a sought-after escape for an increasing number.

Terrible as it is, and it is a crime against humanity in every possible sense and definition, it is nothing compared to what it does to the Israeli people.

As they wall up Palestinian bodies, they wall up their children's future, and their own souls.

[Muddleoftheroad]

38. Not anywhere near true

That's like saying that all of us who put up fences in our yards to protect our homes and families are imprisoning those outside.

It's an odd formulation.

[Gimel]

39. The wall

The wall is nothing more than a physical barrier between Israel and the Palestinians. Why should the Palestinians have free access into Israel?

The issues around irregular land use, and areas where Palestinians lives are made difficult will have to be addressed on a case by case level. There was no time to do that before because of the suicide attacks. I understand that only about 50% of the Palestinian people support Hamas and suicide attacks on Israeli civilians. I know it makes life difficult.

Life is difficult. Heavy rains have fallen lately, flooding areas, trapping people in flooded homes and schools, flooding streets in Israel. It is a great inconvenience. Such is life.

Suicide attack at the Arez crossing killed 4 Israeli this morning. Those in uniform will be considered fair game and non-humans.

A civilian man was shot and killed as he was on his way home last night. Three other civilians were injured. That attack is ignored, as he was driving slightly east of the Green Line.

Say! That Green Line! It makes a prison for them but it is death for us. We deserve to die for crossing that imaginary boundary. They want the FREEDOM to enter Israel. Scrutinize those facts.

[Scurrilous]

24. More details:

http://www.palsolidarity.org/reports/writings/26jan03_nablusrape.htm

FEAR AND INTIMIDATION- TODAY ARREST, THREATS OF TORTURE AND RAPE OF 65 YEAR OLD BRITISH GRANDMOTHER

Date: 26th January 2003
Author: Anne Gwynne
Area: Nablus

<snip>

"Their commanding officer immediately arrested me and said he would take me to Huwarra Camp Prison.


- “Have you been in prison before?”

- ‘No”

- “Do you know what will happen to you in prison?”

- “How could I?”

- “There will be a lot of pain. Have you been raped?”

- “No, I live in a civilized country”.

- “You will be raped – how many would you like – two? – four? – six?”

- “Do I have any choice?”

- “No. Are you 65? You still take interest in yourself, in your body!’

- “I am and I do of course.”

- “You look very good – maybe I join them.”

- “Take your hands away – don’t touch me.”

- “I do not want to take you to prison where you will suffer very much – now tell me why you took the picture of the tank?”

[Gimel]

33. No threat here

It was all imagined. The threat was a warning that if she was put in a prison, she would be raped as it is common in prisons. That is it.

She was let free with a warning. Of course she was terrified by the experience and wants to tell the world of her "rape".

She claims "So this exchange was repeated many times. They were completely bewildered that I should insist on being taken and not Feras! I have seldom felt so determined. Although the photographs were innocuous they were using them as a pretext, and they were my pictures."

If it happened many times, how can she be so sure what exactly was said? I think she is making up the comment about "joining them".

So she thought tho photos were innocuous, but it is forbidden to take photos on a military base. She was told it was illegal, as it is around the world. To her it was innocuous. Ignorance of the law is no excuse.

He said that when “Feras ran away”, he (the Israeli) could have killed us all – “one more second” he said “and I would have killed all of you – see this” and he pointed to his gun – “because I thought he was planning something”.

Does that sound like a someone who doesn't give a shit about one life more dead? I think he was as frieghtened of making a mistake as they were of being detained and questioned. He is leveling with them, and acting as human as possible in the situation. They came to make trouble for the Israelis, and almost got it themselves.

[The Magistrate]

41. Very Sensible Comments, Ma'am

[meti57b]

42. she's just another reprehensible supporter of Hamas terrorism.

Hopefully she will come to her senses and realize the evil in her thinking, if you can call that "thinking".

[GabysPoppy]

43. From the article - this tells you all you need to know

She claims Hamas is seen by Palestinians as the true representatives of their nation.

She told The Western Mail, "Palestine is Hamas and Hamas is Palestine. The Palestinian Authority is just a tool of Israel. They are nothing, except they hold the purse-strings.

"They love (Palestinian Authority leader Yasser Arafat) for his past and hate him for his present."

----------------------

Anyone who can call her a "peace activist" would call Bush the reincarnation of Ghandi

[Name removed]

9. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bluesoul]

10. This is I/P Jim not US politics

and "toothless old loony" remark is telling. Next time someone says that about some pro-Israeli poster, don't complain...

[Jim Sagle]

11. I won't. I'll just alert.

Be seeing you.

[bluesoul]

13. Then this is also

worth alerting...

[Jim Sagle]

17. AFAIK, Insulting individuals in the news is not an alertable offense

while insulting posters is. But I could be wrong.

[drdon326]

15. Anne Gwynne....erstwhile ISM MEMBER

"Ms Gwynne has become well known in the pro-Palestinian internet community but has been condemned by critics for defending the use of violence, including, in some circumstances, suicide bombing."

Likes violence against israelis......hmmmm

[Halle]

16. Oh, yeah, she's got credibility!

"Ms Gwynne has become well known in the pro-Palestinian internet community but has been condemned by critics for defending the use of violence, including, in some circumstances, suicide bombing."

Good grief!

[sushi]

18. What a woman

She could have stayed home in Wales and have Devonshire tea every day but she chose to be a nurse in a dangerous part of the Middle East. I can't believe she's for suicide bombing, even "in some circumstances." Well, she's entitled to her opinion. Hopefully one day soon she'll write about her experiences. I wonder why she calls the PA a tool of Israel.

[Muddleoftheroad]

20. Ultimately

She sounds like a naive, stupid and dangerous old lady.

[bluesoul]

25. Not nearly as dangerous

as Ariel Sharon....

[Muddleoftheroad]

26. An elected leader has to be dangerous to enemies

Especially, when as today, they blow up people.

For a non-elected anything, she is dangerous.

[bluesoul]

27. Sure

...

[Muddleoftheroad]

28. Glad you agree