Determined Settlers.

[sushi]

Richard Carleton, Interviewer:
"They believe the land was given to them by God."

Yitzhak La'or, Israeli writer, who opposes the settlements and sees in them the root cause of the problems:
"So what? I mean in some countries people like this are being put in mental institutions, and they should be put in mental institutions, but there are too many of them."

http://sixtyminutes.ninemsn.com.au/sixtyminutes/stories/2003_08_03/story_921.asp

What a mess. The IDF will have a hard time dismantling the settlements.

[Wonder]

1. Life is a Cabaret Old Friend

come see the Cabaret...

[Equinox]

2. Very telling....

RICHARD CARLETON: No, if you do that you'll confiscate the camera, I don't trust you.

ISRAELI SOLDIER: You're not allowed to take pictures of this.

RICHARD CARLETON: May I come up and talk to you?

ISRAELI SOLDIER: You're already taking pictures?

RICHARD CARLETON: May I come and talk to you? I mean the Israeli settlers are allowed to walk around in there. Is the curfew only for Arabs, is it?

ISRAELI SOLDIER: Yes.

RICHARD CARLETON: So that's just plain racism.

ISRAELI SOLDIER: I'm not talking about that.

RICHARD CARLETON: So Jews can walk around but Arabs can't?

ISRAELI SOLDIER: Sorry, no comment.

RICHARD CARLETON: The whites in apartheid South Africa used capricious curfews of this kind to deal with their problems too.

ISRAELI SOLDIER: Can I please ask you to take out your film and give it to me.

RICHARD CARLETON: Is that an order, sir?

ISRAELI SOLDIER: Yes.

RICHARD CARLETON: It seems this officer was simply trying to intimidate us. We took our chances and we kept our tape. I'd been on the settlers' side of this particular checkpoint the previous day. There, Palestinians now entering are searched whilst the armed settlers who've moved in are unhindered. The few Palestinians left inside the cordon live like this, in cages to protect them from the settlers' rocks. The settlers treat them with contempt, even dumping their garbage in the Palestinians' backyards.


I admire Tom Segev by the way. I suggest "One Palestine Complete" to anyone who hasn't read it.

[Violet_Crumble]

3. Equinox!

You've read 'One Palestine, Complete'? I picked that up at a bookstore real cheap last week and I've only just started reading it. I'm getting the feeling it's worth finishing?

I'm going off on a tangent here, so bear with me because it's not aimed at you. Richard Carleton is a twat and 60 Minutes is a pile of doggy-do as far as current affairs shows go. Mind you, my gripe with Carleton is over a domestic story he did years ago, so I should bite my tongue and read this transcript, I guess...

Violet...

[Equinox]

5. Violet Crumble...

It definitely is worth the read. It isn't biased as it's not kind to either side (from what I can remember). It just chronicals the "facts" from pre Al Naqba to the recent present.

Tom Segev and other Israeli historians are a true testiment to people who have courage and integrity to go against the brainwashed public.

"Ideas are more dangerous than guns. If we don't let our enemies have guns, why should we let them have ideas?" Paraphrased quote from Joseph Stalin

[Equinox]

7. Violet Crumble...

upon further thought, I've been getting some books by Noam Chomsky and Uri Avnery (and I forgot who else). I have them listed on Amazon. I would look into those also, if I were you.

Are you familiar with John Pilger's works? Check him out also.

[Wonder]

4. Yes Equinox the Media is a Definite No No!

What no one sees isn't really happening. A Non-existent reality.

[Equinox]

6. Yes. It makes it easier to do immoral things (or support them)

An ignorant public can be made to do unspeakable things. Things they wouldn't otherwise do if they knew the "facts."

What has been said about that dasterdly elephant in the living room?

[Wonder]

8. What elephant in the livingroom?

So distracted by the Emperor's new clothes. And even those who see he's naked... no taxation without representation... I am not sure it worked the first time we through all that tea in the harbor...

I agree guilt by association... even when it comes to the karma of one's country... all the general's will have taken to higher ground by then, those not already hometically sealed within the bunkers... so guess who'll pay it, when payback time comes round?

[Equinox]

9. History has not changed...

and we live in which century again?

Very pathetic how far mankind has come in terms of technology and how short we have come to human intelligence and emotion.

[Wonder]

10. ....

what would Darwin call it? Devolution

[Equinox]

12. I think he'd call it a disaster....

I don't see the Human Species going to far down this track. There are a few that are aware, but too many that aren't.

[Darranar]

20. Yah, really...

n/t

[Equinox]

23. Are we below or above the animal kingdom?

Humans are the only animals that are vain, jealous, and vengeful. Animals get along just fine unless they eat each other.

:-)

[Wonder]

24. Many times I find these days...

That I am more partial to animals over humans. And as that poster rhiannon pointed out in some states there are very harsh laws set in place to protect animal rights.

I remember once I was waiting for my take out order in a chinese restaurant. I was standing in front of this medium sized aquarium. I can not remember what I had said to prompt one of the waiters to say this, but he informed me in a very think accent: How dumb the fish really were. So I responded, "Really? Have you figured out how to swim under water without your oxygen tank yet?

He laughed but with the language barrier I am not sure he really understood what I was getting at. Such is life!

[Wonder]

11. The Dark Ages?

eclipsing with Germany 1933-1938-1948. Allon plus and Oslo revisited just one more time? Perhaps this time they hope to really set the occupation in place or push all those that haven't evacuated already to Jordan after all. I guess they figure Jordan will take care of the rest of it. God only knows what hale storm it will bring on. You know like Pontius Pilate said in Jesus Christ Superstar, "I wash my hands of this demolation. DIE if you want to you misguided martyr."

As far as pitiful mankind, Einstein would agree, you know our pardigms and modes of thinking, they haven't budged. The mammillian or modern brain so under utilized really, but you don't want to get me started on that. Might take me into a rant, and not a very pretty one either. That's why every now and then I resort to show tunes. It cuts the tension. After a while. What is there to say really?

[Darranar]

13. No legitimate reason...

that is why the settlers have to leave.

[sushi]

14. The IDF will remove them

but they vowed they'll be back.

[tinnypriv]

15. Not a bad report

But c'mon, they could at least mention that Rantissi is obviously a freaking liar.

The rest of it is excellent. It does ignore the fact all this is being paid for by the United States, but that much honesty could never appear so I don't expect it anyway.

[sushi]

16. Everybody knows

Rantissi and his fellow extremists want Israel gone, but they also know they can never make it happen, so if they're wise they should
go on with negotiating and not start suicide bombing again.
You can't get everything you want in life - sometimes you must settle. I hope the Israeli Prime Minister remembers this too.

[Equinox]

17. It's not in his plans for Greater Israel...

Sharon must provoke (this is what he's used to) so that the peace process will fail. It's such a fatalist attitude but with Sharon at the helm, I can't help it.

[sushi]

18. I'm afraid I have to agree with you

that the peace process will fail. The "father of the settlements" would find it hard, no, impossible, to abandon the settlers who are very determined to stay.

http://www.sbs.com.au/dateline/trans.php3?dte=2003-08-06&title=Roadblock+to+Peace

[Equinox]

19. Thanks for the link....

I found some parts very interesting:

Like many Israeli settlers in the West Bank, Mickey Vastrille believes the solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is to expel the Palestinians to Arab countries. It's an easy solution, when you've already dehumanised your enemy.

MICKEY VASTRILLE: Which language do you speak to those people? Can you look into their eyes and speak the same language you speak to me?

I mean, it's hurting me to think that we are both… all of us were named human beings. These are not even animals. Animals are killing for eating. Those are killing for the sake of killing. Nothing is... they're getting nothing.

And they're stupid enough to know... not to know even, not to admit that they're losing.

...

Benny Elon has no time for the road map. His ambition is to settle all of the West Bank and remove the Palestinians who live there.

BENNY ELON, MINISTER OF TOURISM: They can be citizens of Jordan, that's all. They can vote to the Palestinian parliament in Amman. They will enjoy all of the human rights and all of the civilian rights, civilian rights as members in the Palestinian state, citizens of the Jordan Hashemite Kingdom of Palestinian state.

Elon is putting his plan into action here, in Sheik Jarrah, in the Arab part of Jerusalem. Arab families had to be evicted so Israelis could move in.

Elon has organised 17 other settlements like this. The Minister's strategy is to stop Palestinian claims over the Arab Quarter, so Jerusalem will become the undisputed capital of Israel.

BENNY ELON: I have my political power in Israel. I hope to grow and I hope to convince many, including politicians in America.

In the USA, I met many congressmen, many senators. We have millions, millions of evangelical Christians that understand this is the biblical heartland and we are not foreigners and, according to the faith that they have and they share with us, we are the children of Israel coming back to the land of Israel and it is a question of patience, education, and I believe that I will succeed.

...

But the opposition believes the man who made the settlements now has no choice but to curb them if there's ever going to be a Palestinian state.

YULI TAMIR: Palestinians. There's no territory for a Palestinian state within the framework of the present sort of map of settlements.

If you look at the map, you know - in my first speech in the Parliament I walked up on the podium and I opened the settlements map and I said to Sharon, I said, "Assuming I believe that's what you want to do, just point at the place where the Palestinian state will be."

And he had no answer, because there is no place.

[sushi]

21. I find the following disturbing

Ron Nachman, mayor of Ariel, to visiting British MP:
"...We don't expropriate any land ..."

British MP:
"You are the only people in the world that say this. You do know that? The rest of the international community says this land has been appropriated. What do you say to that?"

RN:
"Because we need to educate the world ... Because the world is making a mistake."

The mind boggles.

Then he makes it clear that settlements shouldn't be made "equal to terrorism."

He can put whatever spin he wants on things. How DO you get through to people like this that they are being unreasonable?

[Wonder]

22. oh it's the whole worlds fault now

The whole world is mistaken. I see. Now it all makes sense to me.