Bombing at Israel-Gaza border

[Scurrilous]

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/01/14/israel.blast/

<snip>

"A suicide bomber detonated Wednesday morning at the Erez border crossing separating Israel and northern Gaza, killing at least four Israelis and wounding 10 others, according to Israeli sources.

The bomber also died in the attack.

Four of the wounded are Palestinians, according to Israeli military sources.

The Palestinian militant group Hamas and the Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigades, a militant offshoot of Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat's Fatah movement, claimed joint responsibility for the attack in a phone call to CNN's office in Gaza."

[Gimel]

1. Female bomber

Female bomber kills 4 Israelis at Gaza entrance

By Amos Harel, Haaretz Correspondent, and Haaretz Service

A female suicide bomber blew herself up early Wednesday at one of the entrances to Gaza Strip's main Erez crossing terminal to Israel, killing three IDF soldiers and an Israeli civilian.


Hamas and the Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigade, a militant group affiliated with Yasser Arafat's Fatah movement, jointly claimed responsibility for the blast, which also wounded 12 people.

Hamas, vowing to escalate attacks, said it used a woman suicide bomber for the first time, in order to counter Israeli security precautions.

<clip>

http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/spages/383038.html

[drdon326]

2. When they wonder.....

why checkpoints are increased to men AND NOW WOMEN
they shouldnt be surprised.

now hamas AND al-aqsa are taking credit....

murderous bastards.

[JohnLocke]

14. The Palestinian version of progress and equality...

[JasonDeter]

3. Hamas said its a new policy to use mothers of 2 to kill innocents. Wow.

And they call themselves spiritual leaders? LOL! Excuse me while I laugh my ass off falling out of my chair! How would you like to be a member of that church? Today congregation we need mothers of 2 to volunteer to blow themselves up. You. Yes you in the front row, tell your children two and eight years old goodbye and put this bomb on and go blow up some innocent people. Yes we know the Israeli's will make the 4 thousand people who work with you leave Israel, yes we know it will add hardship to the Palestinian people but you see, "WE DON'T CARE!" Why don't we as your spiritual leaders strap a bomb to our stomachs and blow ourselves up? Uh hum...next!.

[Gimel]

4. Desperate measures

I hope the beast dies soon.

[JasonDeter]

7. I join my hope with yours. eom

[Gimel]

13. Honored

thanks.

[Resistance]

5. senseless

I know it was only one civilian and three soldiers (according to the reports so far) but even the killing of just one innocent person is something I will never understand, and I consider myself to be quite sympathetic with Palestinian suffering.

[Resistance]

6. hmm, now they are saying the one civilian

was a "private guard"

Most reports are just saying "four Israelis killed" and not making any distinguishments between military and civilian targets. Oh well, anything to make Palestinians look evil - that's what our elite Amurikan media is so good at.

[GabysPoppy]

8. Does that make his blood less red?

[bluesoul]

9. I wish you would apply then the same logic

to all the Palestinians killed, if it doesnt' matter if it's a soldier or a civilian. No his blood is no less red, but nor is the one of a Palestinian soldier killed by the IDF. They too are not all terrorists wanting to kill Israelis. Some only want to protect them...

[GabysPoppy]

12. Kindly show me where you think this logic was not used

It is quite easy to make a charge. It is another thing to give the credence to it.

My saying I am glad a suicide bomber is dead, doesn't count.

We all await your proof and links.

[JohnLocke]

15. I, too, eagerly await Bluesoul's proof (with links).

[bluesoul]

16. What proof?

When a Palestinian militant is killed you say you're all glad since he is a terrorist. When an IDF soldier is killed it's supposably something completely different as though they're not legitimate targets. You can't have it both ways...

[GabysPoppy]

17. .

:shrug:

[Gimel]

18. I don't equate...

the occupation of a terrorist (one involved in planning and/or executing attacks on civilian targets, such as mass killings in buses and cafes) with that of a soldier who is inducted into service to protect his country and the citizens of his country.


I don't think any fair-minded person would see them as equals.

[bluesoul]

19. As though the IDF doesn't kill innocent

Palestinian civilians. What you think doesn't mean much to those that lost their love ones (which happen to be Palestinians/Arabs) and for them it's the same as an Israeli family losing their love one. So you don't see them as equals? Which means an innocent Israeli life is worth more then a life of an innocent Palestinian?

[Gimel]

20. There's an old saying

"He who throws the first stone...is the most guilty".

Nowhere did I say the things you accuse me of.

[Resistance]

27. they're equals

when they murder innocent civilians. The occupation doesn't matter at that point.

[Gimel]

51. We don't say we're glad

We say that the killing of an armed terrorist is justified. Some give themselves up peacefully, others go down shooting. I prefer a non-violent arrest, but that is not always possible when they have ammunition and arms also.

[Gimel]

52. deleted by author

sorry for the double post. My finger jumped.

[Gimel]

10. As always

you consider soldiers non-humans by that? Aren't they also Israelis?

It is not wrong to kill Israeli soldiers who are processing workers? It is not wrong to injure Palestinians and other civilians standing nearby?

The young woman bomber had a two-year-old and an baby a few months old. Did you catch that detail? Wasn't it evil to set her up on this mission of death? Did you see her recorded video in honor of her martyrdom?

[mmm]

11. If the shoe were on the other foot, the headlines would read:

Four Israeli terrorists targeted
in pre-emptive strike.

[Gimel]

21. But the shoe is not

on the other foot, as much as they would like us to think so. They are targeting civilians, injuring innocents on the Palestinian side as well.

[Resistance]

22. The targets here were clearly military ones.

Is it too much to ask to please get the basic facts straight?

[GabysPoppy]

23. Were the injured Palestinians military targets also?

Please do not rewrite news accounts to fit your agenda.

[Forkboy]

25. I usually hear dead Palestinians referred to as "collatoral damage"

but that's when the GOI kills them to get one man in an apartment full of innocents.

I'm glad you're concerned with them though.

[Resistance]

28. You think the bomber targeted the Palestinians now?

:crazy:

[GabysPoppy]

29. You tell me

I suspect it didn't give a rat's ass who was there.

The intent was to kill and maim as many people as possible.

[Resistance]

30. you're kidding right?

so the killed soldiers were the collateral damage, and the Palestinians outside were the real targets?

:crazy:

[GabysPoppy]

31. Mind boggling at the least

n/t necessary

[Resistance]

32. you're the one who wrote

that the Palestinians were the targets, I'm just trying to understand how you could come to such an odd conclusion.

[GabysPoppy]

35. Here is what I wrote

"The intent was to kill and maim as many people as possible."

Please point out where I said the Palestinians were I said they were targets.

[Resistance]

36. Is it worth it?

The point seems to me long lost on the merry go round.

[GabysPoppy]

38. .

:shrug:

[Resistance]

39. .

:boring:

[The Magistrate]

42. It Would Seem To Me, Mr. Resistance

This was a legitimate attack, in that it was directed at military personnel, manning the checkpoint. Soldiers are legitimate targets in war, and that no matter what their duty may be at the time.

It is not too much to say, however, that harm to Arab Palestinians in the crowd to enter Israel was not viewed as a beneficial side-effect from the attack. Attacks at this and other entry points have the collateral objective of disrupting the flow of laborers into Israel: it serves the purposes of the radical groups to maintain the people of Arab Palestine in penury, as this increases desperation and aids recruitment, and the radicals regard those who work in Israel as collaborators and traitors. In fact there are occassions when work or visitation permits form part of the Shin Bet's currency in recruiting informers. To make an entry point dangerous for Arab Palestinians is therefore, from the radical's point of view, all to the good. So is provoking Israel to close one.

[Resistance]

47. well I pretty much agree

I would also like to point out that, just as with the IDF, there are some legitimate military operations, and there are some terrorist strikes against civilians.

But both sides do engage in each. To pretend that everything one side does is all terrorist evil, while the other side only engages in defensive measures is living in a dream-world. This isn't a story about good little Frodo and Sam battling a ruthless mob of orcs. Both sides are committing intentional harm against the others' civilian populations.

on edit: I wasn't implying what any of your views are or aren't, Magistrate; this is just general commentary I am making.

[bemildred]

49. Though I am to loath participate in threads such as this,

it has been a curiosity to me, for some time, that the checkpoints
are not more frequently attacked. They seem an obvious and
rewarding target, in a number of ways.

[Jim Sagle]

53. I get that impression a lot myself. Especially in I/P.

[Blitz]

34. No, that's fair

The murderer and all those that supported her are JEW-haters. They just don't give a damn about who else happens to suffer while they're murdering and helping to murder Jews. And as for who she was targeting, she was trying to get THROUGH the checkpoint. It was only after the murderous waste of skin realized that she would be stopped that she settled on whatever slaughter she could get.

[Resistance]

37. I'm just wondering something

do you think that the IDF murderers of Palestinians and their supporters are Moslem-haters who don't give a damn for anything except murdering Moslems and helping to murder Moslems?

[Blitz]

40. Name some IDF murderers for me

I know of one Arab Bedouin IDF soldier who caused the death of Tom Hurndall through either malice or recklessness. I also know that the IDF, as a whole, is extremely moral and, in those very rare cases when one of its members does wrong, very responsible in its self-policing (what were the name of the last few terrorists that the PA arrested?). In a few short years, my neice and nephew (twins) will serve in the IDF, like their brother before them. I will be very proud to have them wear that uniform.

And to answer your question, Israelis, whether in the IDF or not (and most Israelis serve), generally do not hate Muslims (with a "u" and an "i," in my neck of the woods), though they have more than ample reason to. Terrorists, and, generally, their supporters and apologists, do hate Jews.

[Name removed]

41. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Blitz]

43. You've made that assertion before

It is incorrect. Had I emigrated to Israel rather than to the USA, I would have been proud to wear an IDF uniform. Your premise is incorrect and, not surprisingly, you once again fail to back it up.

One more time:

IDF: Terrific army based on morals. There probably isnt a fighting force on earth that would conduct themselves as ethically as the IDF under similar circumstances.

If there was no IDF, every Jew in Israel would be murdered within days.

Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Al Aksa Brigade, Tanzim, Force 17, Fatah, etc.: Jew-hating murderers who revel in the murder of innocents.

If these groups didn't exist, there would be peace within days.

[Resistance]

44. No, you are the one who is incorrect.

The IDF terrorizes civilians on a regular basis. They murder kids, women, Hamas members, non-Hamas members, and then on top of it they destroy homes and wreck neighborhoods, creating more misery for Palestinians.

This terror is not based on morals; you are terribly incorrect on that.

[Blitz]

46. You keep making assertions without support

By your logic, the ISM is much worse than Hamas.

Obviously, the IDF, which fights terrorists and protects innocents is much better than the ISM, which supports terrorists and teaches innocent children to hate.

You say that Hamas is better than the IDF.

Therefore, ISM must be much, much worse than Hamas.

Actually, I don't believe that they are. I think they're somewhere between Hamas and the IDF, but closer to Hamas.

[Resistance]

48. examples of IDF terrorism.

probably wasted my time doing this, but since you insist on supporting my statements ....

117 Palestinians killed, hundreds injured during "relative calm"

The Israeli Army shot my son

IOF Shoot Dead 3 Palestinians, Detain 85, Demolish 11 Houses

Israeli raids take a toll on West Bank civilians

Israeli hunt for suspect kills 19

Palestinian killed, 11 wounded in two Gaza raids

Mahmud, 10, went looking for songbirds ... and died in hail of bullets

Israeli troops kill unarmed Palestinians

[Muddleoftheroad]

45. Sure, and Al Cappone was the same as Elliot Ness

Your concept of right and wrong need a serious reassessment.

[Gimel]

50. The target

The target was Israel. If the soldiers had not detained her at the Arez crossing, she would have found a crowded civilian market to detonate herself. The solders are heroic as they are protecting Israeli citizens. That is the fact that must be gotten straight.

[Blitz]

33. Are you saying that THIS Palestinian

wasn't evil?

[Name removed]

24. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Resistance]

26. Israel tries to provide jobs to suicide bombers?

Wow when did they enact that policy?

[Gimel]

54. Not policy

But they get their last employment there: murder for reward.

[GabysPoppy]

55. And workman's comp

Is paid to the bomber's family

[Gimel]

56. Once again

Here we have proof that Gaza bombers can't get into Israel. Through the consistent work and thoroughness of the IDF, no bomber has gotten through (except the British al Qaeida member last year).

The Peace and Security fence will be as effective in stopping attacks on Israelis. Everyone knows it. Palestinians say they will feel like they are being suffocated. How do you think Israelis feel? They feel like sitting ducks, waiting for the next suicide bomber to get through the open borders.

Palestinians should enjoy their land and build their country.