Parents of Rachel Corrie speak at University of Michigan

[IndianaGreen]

Parents of Rachel Corrie speak at University of Michigan
Pro-Palestinian activist killed by Israeli bulldozer
By Russ Daniels and David Rodriguez
5 February 2004

Several pro-Palestinian activists and the parents of Rachel Corrie spoke at the University of Michigan January 25, in an effort to increase political awareness among young people about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Cindy and Craig Corrie spoke of the life of their daughter, a student from Evergreen College in Olympia, Washington, who was crushed by an Israeli bulldozer on March 16, 2003. Over 100 people attended the meeting.

Also speaking at the meeting was Adam Shapiro, one of the founders of the International Solidarity Movement (ISM), and Brian Avery, a member of ISM who was shot in the face by Israeli soldiers while aiding Palestinians in the city of Jenin. The Corries spoke at the end of the meeting, discussing the history and personality of their daughter.

Rachel Corrie, 23 years old, was killed while attempting to prevent the demolition of Palestinian homes in the refugee town of Rafah, in southern Gaza. She was a victim of the escalating violence of the Israeli state against Palestinians and groups supporting Palestinian rights, including the ISM, of which she was a member.

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2004/feb2004/corr-f05.shtml

[Herschel]

1. Oh my

The victim of escalating violence? This disturbed woman supported killers and carelessly caused her own death. I will save my sympathy for those worthy of it.

[liberalnurse]

2. Her mission was to find peace between

the Israeli's and Palestinians.....nothing less than peace.

[GabysPoppy]

3. Her mission was worthy

Her actions were not.

[Herschel]

4. Perhaps, my friend

A Rachel Corrie forum should be created.

[Noon_Blue_Apples]

10. A reasonable response, How do you distinguish

when a humanitarian crosses the line?

why is she not as vile as others contend, in your eyes.

Thanks

Bill

[GabysPoppy]

11. Please read the 50 other threads in this forum about Rachel Corrie

I'm sure you will get all the answers you seek.

[Noon_Blue_Apples]

12. Can you recco one you feel is best?

B

[GabysPoppy]

15. Pot luck

They are all the same

[Noon_Blue_Apples]

25. MMMMMMmmmmmmm

Pot luck!

I'm a sucker for a buffet - damn, now I'm hungry

B

[Name removed]

33. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

7. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Herschel]

17. Innocents on the Palestinian side are collateral damage

I would find some worthy of sympathy. Not this disturbed woman, however.

[Djinn]

27. I'm curious Herschel

If a Palestinian's bullet ricochets off a wall and kills a non-arab passer by when the gunmen was clearly and indisputably aiming at soldier's bases or checkpoint - is that a "collateral damage" in your eyes? or is all violence committed by the Palestinians terrorism?

[drdon326]

5. Did the parents....

comment on THEMSELVES letting their daughter enter a war
zone??? hmmmm ??

RC...patron saint of terrorists worldwide.

:puke:

[Name removed]

6. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[tinnypriv]

8. I assume

You have even a particle of evidence for that slander.

[Blitz]

13. Yup, sure do

I and others have posted it many times. Feel free to do a search.

[tinnypriv]

26. Tried that

Didn't come up with any evidence. No evidence of supporting "terrorists", no evidence of being a "hatemonger" either.

Oh, you mean the image of Corrie burning an American flag?

Sorry, that may suffice in reactionary circles, but not in rational ones.

[Noon_Blue_Apples]

9. speaking of 'hatemongers'

Is it your contention that helping palestinians in the region makes one a terrorist supporter?

B

[Blitz]

14. No

It is my contention that supporting terrorists makes one a terrorist supporter.

[Noon_Blue_Apples]

20. How did she support terrorists?

?

[Blitz]

21. I've gone over this ground a thousand times

As have many other people on this board. I'm not doing it again. She doesn't merith the effort. Feel free to do a search or ask Tinnypriv for the results of his search.

[Noon_Blue_Apples]

22. So you can't back up your words?

If you have gone over this a thousand times why are you in this thread making such statements?

does it feel gratifying?

B

[Blitz]

23. Did you miss what I said?

I can back up my words and have before. In fact, you were on DU at the time to see it. I choose not to go over the same ground again. I'm on this thread because I refuse to allow a hatemonger to be canonized, which is what her worshippers continually seek to do. Telling the truth is often a gratifying experience.

[Noon_Blue_Apples]

24. So you can't back up your words

and do find pleasure in posting them here...ok then

"I'm on this thread because I refuse to allow a hatemonger to be canonized, which is what her worshippers continually seek to do."

Who is doing what in this thread - who is cononizing her here.

is this an example of "I choose not to go over the same ground again" these are new comments from you?

Oh, I understand, this is a pre-emptive strike...even though you are utterly bored and tired of the topic.

ok then, lets get back to the topic of hatemongers

Bill

[Les Claypool]

39. In other words....

You don't have evidence. Just say so.
:eyes:

[Name removed]

28. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Djinn]

29. so

what you're asdying is she died protecting homes that were near some other homes. you were careful NOT to say she was protecting tunnel homes but presumably that was the smear intended.

Also - please give evidence of "ISM has a history of associating with known terrorists"

because I guarantee I couldn't make that kind of sweeping statement about a Israeli group without evidence without it being instantly deleted, but then again Herschel can call a murdered woman a terrorist and "deranged" and that can stay up....as someone else said "ah the wacky world of the I/P forum"

[rabidarab2004]

30. Have you ever heard of an ISM member riding a bus?

So why don't these human shields ride Israeli buses if they want to protect lives?

Palestinian forces not only admitted their existence, they "poured concrete into five tunnels used to smuggle guns, ammunition, drugs and other contraband from Egypt, under Israeli forces, and into the Gaza Strip." "'In this way, you are cutting the supply line for Hamas and Islamic Jihad,'" said a spokesman for Muhammad Dahlan, the Palestinian Security Minister. (James Bennet, "Four Hamas Militants Killed in Israeli Attack," The New York Times, August 25, 2003.) operate in and secure the area.


As far as ISM's ties to terrorist organizations, that is well documented. From tea parties with members of Islamic Jihad to aiding and abetting wanted terrorist. Here is just one sample:


A recent demonstration serves as an example of the close cooperation between the ISM and the terrorist groups. The announcement read "Join the ISM, the Palestinian National and Islamic Forces and the Apartheid Wall Defense Committee on Thursday July 3 to block construction of the Apartheid Wall that will completely isolate three villages in the Tulkarem region: Nazlit Issa, Baqa Sharqiya, and Nazlit Abu Nar from the rest of the Palestinian villages." < Ref9> The Palestinian National and Islamic Forces is a coalition, or an umbrella organization, that includes an long list of terrorist organizations, including Hamas and Islamic Jihad. (Palestinian National Liberation Movement {Fateh}; Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine {PFLP}; Islamic Resistance Movement {Hamas}; Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine {DFLP}; Palestinian People's Party {PPP}; Palestinian Democratic Union {FIDA}; Palestinian Popular Struggle Front; Palestinian Liberation Front; Islamic Jihad Movement; Arab Liberation Front; Palestinian Arab Front; Popular Front-General Command; Islamic National Salvation Party; and Popular Liberation War Pioneers. < Ref10>).
http://home.comcast.net/~jat.action/ISM_info.htm


If anything, my use of the word "coddle" did not accurately portray the ISM' committment to terrorist acts. They WILLFULLY aid and abet terrorists, from Susan Barclay attempting to foil the arrest of a wanted Islamic Jihad terrorist to Rachel Corrie.

[Name removed]

31. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Djinn]

34. simple

why don't these human shields ride Israeli buses if they want to protect lives?

mainly because they're there to help Palestinians - there are MILLIONS of people in the world that need help there are usually specialised groups - just as there are charities and groups that SPECIFICALLY help settlers, or jewish people in general, or rainforests or animals, ISM assists Palestinians.

They may also figure that with a HUGE army and 3 bill a year in aid that the Israeli's don't need quite as much assistance as the Palestinians do, maybe they've looked at the respective bodycounts.


I still can not beleive that posts calling Rachel a terrorist and saying she deserved it are still up

[drdon326]

35. Believe it.

I've must have said shes a terrorist supporter
at least 1000 times.

[Name removed]

36. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[drdon326]

37. Djinn...

message was deleted.

re-post.

[Djinn]

52. I said basically what Les Claypool says below

simply repeating a falsehood ad naseum doesn't make it fact - see the Bush administration for evidence of this

[Les Claypool]

42. Doesn't make it true...

...even if you say it 1001 times.

:crazy:

[Les Claypool]

41. Bravo!

:toast:

[Les Claypool]

40. It's amazing isn't it Djinn?

:crazy:

[Name removed]

53. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Dutch]

16. "Patron saint of terrorists?"" Hatemonger?"

Wow, Herschel's "disturbed woman who caused her own death" remark is almost starting to sound moderate (in a poisonous, slanderous kind of way, of course) by comparison.

Ahh, the whacky world of the I/P forum!

[Name removed]

18. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Scurrilous]

19. Yep...

...flatten Rachel with a bulldozer, then call her names. Can't get any whackier than that.


Dei morti parla bene" (Never speak ill of the dead)
--Italian Proverb

[Name removed]

32. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[drdon326]

38. Quite frankly....

I really dont enjoy talking about her....however if people here
are going to falsely eulogize her,than other people are going to
point to the truth.

[Les Claypool]

44. The truth that she was murdered?

[GabysPoppy]

45. Tell me something

I person who tries to cross a high speed six lane turnpike and gets killed by an onrushing eighteen wheel truck, murder or suicide?

[Forkboy]

46. Not a good analogy

It was single,slow bulldozer,not a "high speed six lane turnpike".

Do you know the top speed of a bulldozer? As someone who has driven them I can tell you it's not a blistering pace.

[GabysPoppy]

47. The analogy had nothing to do with any vehicle

The analogy was between murder and suicide. I hope that clears it up for you.

[Forkboy]

48. "Between murder and suicide"

Yes,by using a lousy analogy.

[GabysPoppy]

49. I promise to try harder for you next time

[Forkboy]

50. It would be appreciated

[Les Claypool]

51. LOL...you're joking.

A slow moving earth mover is hardly an onrushing eighteen wheeler.

Take that spin somewhere else, please. It ain't foolin' me.

:eyes:

[Djinn]

54. tell me something

there is a citizens protest against a new apartment block being built on appropriated public land near where you live - some citizens sit in the way of bulldozers in full view of the driver and foreman. The driver drives straight over the top of said protesters. Murder or suicide?

Everyone calls on Palestinians and their supoprters to utilise non violence resistance: standing - unarmed - in front of a dozer is about as peaceful as it gets without being totally unnoticed and ineffective, yet this is also condemned.

Even if you accept that ISM is in league with terrorists which I dont and no amount of quoting from partisan websites will change my mind - the driver was still ordered to run over the top of someone he knew was there, this was purported to be an "accident" not a targetted killing so Rachel's personal beliefs and actions aren't relevant to the fact that this was murder most definetly not suicide

[Name removed]

55. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Forkboy]

56. self deleted

no one would get it :)

[GabysPoppy]

57. Here you say (and I quote)

"the driver was still ordered to run over the top of someone he knew was there"

Who placed this order?

When was it placed?

Where are your facts to prove this point?

Where and who is your source?

Where is your proof that he knew someone was there?

What is the range of vision from this piece of apparatus?

What is the size of the window in this machine?

Using eye level as a horizontal plane, what angle of degree from the horizontal is visible from this machine?

[Djinn]

59. are you honestly suggesting

that you can not see out of these dozers?? if that was the case there'd be crushings all over the place - if you can't see in front of you you can't operate the machine????

as for the ordered bit - that was me being fair to the driver I don't think he decided to murder rachel on his own - if he did then he alone is a murderer. There were plenty of witness' to this event and I have personally spoken to them - have you?

Maybe the Israeli government could release their info on this and we could all be certain once and for all - after all if it erally was just an unfortunate case of a blind driver surely there isn't a "national security" excuse for keeping it all in the dark.

[GabysPoppy]

60. Please name the people you have spoken with.

The time and occasion of these interviews.

You may answer the questions that you left out at the same time.

Thank you

[Djinn]

61. sorry

I didn't "interview" them I spoke with them - people speak journalists interview. I have friends within ISM and spoke with them through those people - I didn't take a transcript, sorry.

and I didn't leave out anything - I'll happily retract the bit about the driver being ordered (I should have said presumably) but I kept that in because apparently making assertive statements gets you booted from I/P, I've had posts deleted because I said that according to IDF sources themselves the IDF target kids, however I didn't add "according to IDF sources" so I didn't want to call the driver a murderer without proof he acted alone - it would btw be nice to see some temperance to the posts calling Rachel a terrorist because as far as I can see you've come up with zero proof for that slander, if he wasn't ordered he did it himself.

Could you answer mine? do think dozers are manufactured in such a way that the driver can not see what is in front of him

[GabysPoppy]

62. I will be pleased to answer your question

when one of mine has been answered. I too have spoken with members of the IDF and their claims are in direct opposition to your claims.

You apparently are speaking with ISM members who have the same degree of separation from this incident as do the IDF members that I have spoken with. Neither group would have any information allowable in any court in the world. That being the case, neither discussions are relevant.

[Djinn]

63. true

although all testimony would be perfectly admissable (as opposed to allowable) in court - bias is taken into account but it still gets aired unless it's hearsay, ie you and I could not present what we have been told by ISM and IDF but the members themselves that where there would all be able to testify and give their versions....that said I'm more than happy to agree with you 100% that they're both partisan and we'll both have to decide who we believe for ourselves...done and done

how about the dozer question...do you really think the driver couldn't see in directly in front of him while in the cab? do yuo really think he didn't know she was there?

On edit: you really spoke to IDF members who were present at the time?, I was almost positive this was not allowed by the IDF and you'd be the first person to have an IDF soldiers account?

[Les Claypool]

58. Way better analogy than the bogus "onrushing 18 wheeler" gem!

Thanks Djinn!

:toast:

[Les Claypool]

43. It's F'd up here.

I mean a peace supporter being described as a hatemonger and terrorist supporter because she has the audacity to try to stop the Israeli terror machine (literally and figuratively). Like Herschel says, "Oh my."

:eyes:

[Lithos]

64. Locking

This thread seems to have gone beyond any hope of productivity.

Lithos
FA/NS Moderator
Democratic Underground