Israel warplanes swoop on Lebanon, Hizbollah fires

[Aidoneus]

Israel warplanes swoop on Lebanon, Hizbollah fires

BEIRUT, Feb 8 (Reuters) - Israeli warplanes roared deep into Lebanon on Sunday, creating sonic booms over towns and villages and prompting Hizbollah guerrillas to fire at the jets, a senior Lebanese army source said.

Witnesses said a pair of jets made loud sonic booms as far north as Akkar, near Lebanon's northern border. The planes also flew over Beirut and broke the sound barrier over Nabatiyeh in south Lebanon and the Bekaa Valley town of Baalbek.

"The anti-aircraft guns of the resistance fired at the planes," the army source said. No planes were reported hit.

--snip--

http://channels.netscape.com/ns/news/story.jsp?id=2004020806450002134854&dt=20040208064500&w=RTR&coview=

[Gimel]

1. I heard

I could hear the jets in northern Israel. I can't verify how far over Lebanon they were, but as Lebanon is about half the length of Israel, as has been pointed out here, and sound carries rather far, I don't doubt that the jets can be heard even in Beirut, whether or not they are over Lebanese territory. They could be over the sea as well.

[legin]

2. A guess

This could be the israelis testing Lebanese air defences in advance of an israeli raid. Send over a couple of jets, with lots of monitoring equipment, just to make sure there are no unpleasant surprises.

They did this before and then about a couple of days later they bombed somewhere in Lebanon.

They buzzed Assad's palace and then a while later bombed that camp near Damascas.

:shrug:

[Herschel]

3. Well done

Hizbollah will be more likely to mind itself when reminded of little Israel's resolve.

[Aidoneus]

4. U.N.: 17 Israeli Jets Terrorize Lebanon with Supersonic Forays

U.N.: 17 Israeli Jets Terrorize Lebanon with Supersonic Forays

A United Nations report has said 17 Israeli fighter jets staged 10 forays into Lebanese skies on Sunday, drawing 21 rounds of anti-aircraft fire from Hizbullah positions in South Lebanon.

The report by the personal envoy of the U.N. Secretary-General to South Lebanon, Staffan de Mistura, noted that the intruding jets panicked the population by supersonic runs over Beirut and elsewhere in Lebanon.

The report noted that Hizbullah positions fired 21 rounds of anti-aircraft fire on the Israeli warplanes although Israel had asserted that no shrapnel had fallen on Jewish settlements straddling the South Lebanese border.

--snip--

http://www.naharnet.com/domino/tn/Newsdesk.nsf/Story/AF8ED6F4E5D3133FC2256E360031F7C4?OpenDocument&PRINT

[Muddleoftheroad]

5. "Terrorize?"

Ewwwwwwwwwwwww. Scary jet noises. I think the UN needs to talk to Hezbollah and build a slightly better definition of the word, "terrorize."

[tinnypriv]

6. Yeah

I'm sure survivors of the london Blitz didn't shudder when they heard stukas swooping low.

The lebanese have experienced more death, destruction and terrorism at the hands of Israel (via jet planes) than Israel has in its entire history.

Glad to see you have no problem with the violation of airspace though. Can we generalise that principle to Iranian aircraft sonic-booming Tiberias?

[Muddleoftheroad]

7. Violations of airspace

Israel and Syria are still at war. Syria actively supports terror units against Israel. Lebanon -- a conquered and subjugated state under the control of Syria -- embraces a terror group like Hezbollah. Those actions invite Israeli response.

[tinnypriv]

8. So

Iranian aircraft sonic-booming Tiberias? Yay or nay?

[Gimel]

9. As long as

they are going faster than sound. It's ok.

[tinnypriv]

10. Of course

To make the analogy accurate, those same Iranian planes would have killed tens of thousands of Israeli civilians previously, and driven hundreds of thousands from their homes...

[Gimel]

11. Analogy

to what, Viet Nam? I know what you are claiming, but your totals, as usual are grossly incorrect. Be that as it may, Syria and the PLO instigated that war. Is Israel attacking Iranian civilians?

[tinnypriv]

12. The PLO held the ceasefire

And Israel consistently violated it. As is conceeded by senior Israeli analysts, and anybody aware of the facts.

The casualty figures are from the Lebanese government, derived from hospital and police sources. Roughly 20,000 civilian deaths, though that is surely an underestimate.

Vietnam? There were over a million civilian deaths in that invasion. I hardly think anybody is claiming that in Lebanon, nor should they, since the figures above are accurate.

[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Aidoneus]

24. ?!

:thumbsdown:

[Djinn]

15. would that be like "scary" rock throwing 12 year olds

Ewwwwwwwwwwwww. Scary jet noises. I think the UN needs to talk to Hezbollah and build a slightly better definition of the word, "terrorize."

is the IDF's equipment that shoddy that when a kid throws a rock at (or in the vague direction of) an amoured vehicles full of armoured men, that it needs to met with deadly force?

[Muddleoftheroad]

16. Rocks?

At lot of times those rock throwers are targeting soldiers, not vehicles. And, of course, many times there are Molotovs mixed in as well.

As a individual soldier, either are potentially deadly threats. In a vehicle, the second is.

[Djinn]

17. nice one

let me see if I get your logic....

a child throws a rock at an armed and shielded soldier (from a fair distance coz they can not get up close) and it's a potentially fatal incident.

The IDF sends a missile from a helicopter into the building that is apparently housing someone that Israel has decided to assasinate (apart from the extra-judicial execution problem inherent here) the fact that the said building also houses several families who have NOTHING to do with it and who will also die is just "unfortunate"???

Can I ask if you think ANYTHING the IDF and Israeli governments have done is wrong? or is it all the Palestinians fault?

[Muddleoftheroad]

19. Armed and shielded, what a laugh

Ah yes, and your scenario is sooooo plausible. Typically, these "rock throwing incidents" happen in bulk, just like the Old Testament when they stoned people. Those people died, btw.

Have you ever played sports? I have. I've seen 200+pound men taken down by a baseball, a softball, a basketball or even a football. Only one of those cases was deliberate (a beaning) and not one of them involved a rock, a vastly harder object.

Now, instead you have multiple rocks and, of course, the ever-present danger that if you fall, more and more rocks will hit you or someone will come up and Ramallah you. (Yes, a reference to what Palestinian terrorists do when they capture Israeli soldiers.)

So, I will say this, if I felt threatened, I'd shoot back. Damn straight.

And for about the 1,000th time, Israel did the smart and least hazardous thing attacking the apartment building. Every other scenario would have involved more troops and more potential loss of life on both sides. Real life isn't the movies and the Delta Force doesn't just swoop into Palestinian areas and pirate away known terrorists.

Yes, I have said repeatedly that Israel is far from perfect. I don't agree 100% with the route of the Peace Fence. And, honestly, I would have built the damn thing a long time ago. In addition, I would have cut off ALL contact with the Palestinians short of military action. That is, of course, until they take action of their own on the terrorists.

[Djinn]

21. sorry

muddleoftheroad, but having seen what we're discussing with my own eyes (I can only assume from your posts that like most Israeli's you've never seen what goes on in the West Bank) I know that children who throw rocks get shot. Kids who throw rocks at armed and shielded soldiers get shot. Kids walking to school GET SHOT.

That you compare this stuff to death by stoning shows how far from reality we really have strayed.

.............waiting to be deleted

[Muddleoftheroad]

25. Sorry, I don't agree that you know the "truth"

Again, attacking armed police or military is a way to get shot. It's downright stupid. Never put someone else's life at risk because you can't predict how they will respond.

[Violet_Crumble]

39. I think djinn is closer to the truth than you are, Muddle...

How on earth is throwing a stone at well-armed troops who are usually well protected behind fortifications and helmets putting the soldiers lives at risk? Nonsensical scenarios justifying the action of troops shooting children by throwing in lots of ifs and maybes seems to be ignoring the fact that children throwing stones are not a risk to soldiers lives. I expect if they were, there'd be documented evidence of soldiers killed by rock-throwing children, and of course that's never happened...

A child throwing a stone at the police or armed forces does NOT justify them being shot and killed by what are supposed to be professionally trained people. You portray them as mindless loose cannons who don't have to follow any rules when it comes to Palestinian civilians. What's downright stupid is someone thinking they have the right to kill a child if they throw a stone at them. The onus isn't on children, in fact on any civilian, to predict how the police or military would respond, and putting the blame on civilians when they get shot is disgusting...


Violet...

[Evil_Dewers]

32. Dude, you have a MLK Jr. Avatar...

Yet you post like a hawk.

LMAO...What's next, a Ghandi avatar and the endorsement of the Bush invasion of IRAQ since Bhudda put Dubya in office because God is on our side?

[JasonDeter]

18. In any other country (the US) those kids would be met with

VERY DEADLY FORCE. In Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Russia, China, Sweden, France, England, all those countries if faced with the same rock throwing kids would eventually meet it with deadly force. Deny it! You know it to be true.

[Muddleoftheroad]

20. In the U.S.

Kids know better than to attack cops with rocks. It is a recipe for getting shot.

[Djinn]

22. what I know to be

JasonDeter, is what I have seen with my own eyes...what about you?

either way it's nice that you and muddle think this is reasonable force...here's hoping YOUR kids never do anything stupid and/or dangerous

[JasonDeter]

23. Who raises their children to throw rocks at people with guns?

Who raises their children to play on the Interstate Freeways? Who teaches their children to walk to the edge of the cliff, stand on one foot and look up? I've been alive for almost 60 years and I have yet to meet any parent that would teach their children to throw rocks at people with guns!! In todays world in some countries some of the children have gone mad (even in the US!), no parental responsibility! Its not the parents fault these Palestinian children are being killed for throwing rocks at people with guns?! Please tell me how its not the parents fault these children are dying?

[Violet_Crumble]

40. Yeah, Palestinian parents aren't normal like other parents...

They train their kiddies from birth to go out and throw rocks at those poor innocent troops who are just minding their own business as they shoot civilians and demolish homes. See, Palestinian parents don't love their kids like other parents do, and only have them so they can train them how to throw rocks at troops. Sheez...

You want to be told how it's not the parents fault these children are dying? For exactly the same reason it wasn't the fault of the parents living up the road from me who had the gall not to lock their children up 24/7, assumed their kids were playing somewhere safe, only to find their kids had played in a big cardboard box on an adjacent block of land and been run over by a fully-laden concrete truck. Parents can't follow their children round 24/7 trying to keep them out of harms way, and children aren't mindless little bots that only do what their parents tell them to do. Who's to blame for Palestinian children dying is the individual who shoots them. To throw blame elsewhere is to indulge in playing blame the victim and reminds me of those creeps who blame rape victims for being raped instead of the rapist...

Hey, I've got a solution, Jason. Abortion should be made legal and easily obtainable in the Occupied Territories! Cause, like I read somewhere else at DU that abortion is genocide, so therefore if abortion were legal there'd obviously be no stone-throwing kiddies round for the IDF to take pot-shots at!! Whatdya reckon? ;)

Violet...

[Aidoneus]

13. Israel jets break sound barrier over south Lebanon (new--2/12)

temporary link.. the Netscape links tend to be the earliest, but generally short and the links go dead after a few days.. will update this later when something else appears..

Israel jets break sound barrier over south Lebanon

NABATIYEH, Lebanon (Reuters) - Two Israeli planes roared over southern Lebanon Thursday and drew retaliatory fire from Islamist Hizbollah guerrillas, witnesses said.

The jets broke the sound barrier over the town of Nabatiyeh and central and border areas of southern Lebanon just before noon, they said. Hizbollah responded with anti-aircraft fire.

--snip--

http://channels.netscape.com/ns/news/story.jsp?id=2004021214070002329649&dt=20040212140700&w=RTR&coview=

[Aidoneus]

26. Israeli jets swoop over southern Lebanon (new, 2/18)

KFAR SHOUBA, Lebanon, Feb 18 (Reuters) - Two Israeli planes roared over southern Lebanon on Wednesday, violating Lebanese airspace for the second time in a week, witnesses said.

There were no immediate reports of fire from Hizbollah guerrillas, a frequent response to Israeli sorties over the border.

The witnesses said the two planes flew over the southeast, above the towns of Marjayoun and Hasbeyeh and near the disputed Shebaa Farms border area.

--snip--

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L18551606.htm

[Aidoneus]

27. Israeli warplanes break sound barrier throughout the South (new, 3/10)

Israeli warplanes break sound barrier throughout the South
Meanwhile, Hizbullah opens a critical gate to road traffic
By Mohammed Zaatari
Daily Star staff

Israeli warplanes on Tuesday renewed their violation of Lebanon’s sovereignty and broke the sound barrier over the South.

The planes flew at low altitude over Marjayoun, Bint Jbeil, Tyre and Sidon, where the fighter-jets released red balloons to divert missiles and anti-aircraft artillery, security sources in the South said.

Hizbullah fired shots toward the planes, the sources added.

Other sources said that Israeli boats violated regional waters and navigated along the southern coast from Naqoura to Sarafand.
Israeli troops patrolled the border while witnesses spotted Israeli soldiers watching the border from the Abbad outpost. An Israeli officer was seen talking to several soldiers who took notes.

--snip--

http://www.lebanonwire.com/0403/04031015DS.asp

[drdon326]

28. I like the "SWOOP" better. n/t

.

[Aidoneus]

29. aroused yet?

[drdon326]

30. lol

i'm working on it.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

33. What's this "aroused" thing? A running joke? Origins please? (nt)

[Evil_Dewers]

34. Ask drdon326.

[Aidoneus]

35. a day or two ago..

In response to a thread about Palestinians in Gaza burying the dead from a few days ago (--an Israeli invasion in 2 Gaza Strip camps killed 14 and wounded 90 more--), one of the posters here said he'd bomb the funeral procession; DrDon said "stop it / I'm getting aroused".

As for the "butterflies" running joke, that's another story.. :)

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

36. EEEEEK!

I feel dirty! Lounge, I'm back!

[Evil_Dewers]

37. Doc must get easily aroused by violence. This oughta help him.

LABOUR (MAPAI) PRIME MINISTER, D. BEN-GURION.

Qualifications: War Criminal. Gave the orders that others carried out.

Ben-Gurion and the Haganah became convinced that they would have to drive the British out if they were ever going to get their state. That required unity within the ranks of Zionism and they proposed a joint military campaign to the Irgun and Stern Gang who, until the autumn of 1945, they had solemnly proclaimed to be terrorists, fascists and madmen. And Begin, who, during the Saison, had put up wall posters comparing them to "Quisling and Laval", eagerly accepted. -- Quote from Haber, Menachem Begin, p.146.

Ben-Gurion was head of the Jewish Agency. After the adoption of the united front against the British, Ben-Gurion directed the terrorist "war" from the shadows. At this time, it was he who gave the "green light" for nearly all Jewish terrorist activity. The public relations disaster caused by the King David Hotel bombing, bought the detente with the Irgun and Stern Gang to an end (the Jewish Agency denounced the attack, claiming that the Irgun had violated its specifications as to when the bomb should be set). After directing the 1948 war to conquer Palestine and drive out its inhabitants, he became Prime Minister. An ideas man. It was his idea to create a civil war in Lebanon in order to establish a Maronite government that would align itself with Israel. Although it was difficult to ignite this civil war, their continual efforts over the years were eventually successful (and thousands died). A truly evil man.

LABOUR (MAPAI) PRIME MINISTER, M. SHARRETT.

Qualifications: Close associate of most the war criminals and terrorists mentioned. Believed in the aims of the war criminals, however, differed on the means of establishing those aims. For example, he tried to prevent the Qibia (Kibya) attack (ordered by D. Ben-Gurion and carried out by A. Sharon) fearing that such ruthless attacks (in this case a massacre) might alienate Western opinion.


LABOUR PRIME MINISTER, G. MEIR.

Qualifications: Singularly unsuited for the job of Prime Minister of Israel. Before becoming Prime Minister, was neither a known terrorist nor war criminal. However, in Feb. 1973, as Prime Minister, Golda Meir authorized the shooting down a Libyan civilian airliner over the Sinai by Israeli jet fighters, killing all 107 passengers and its French crew. So it seems she was more suited to the job than was initially apparent.

LABOUR PRIME MINISTER, Y. RABIN.

Qualifications: War Criminal. In 1948 (on instruction from Ben Gurion) ethnically cleansed some 70,000 Palestinians from Lydda and Ramleh. This included the massacre of several hundred resident civilians (to get them moving). In 1967 Rabin ordered the ethnic cleansing of some 5,000 from the villages of Emwas, Beit Nuba and Yalou and the dynamiting and bulldozing of their homes.

LIKUD PRIME MINISTER, M. BEGIN.

Qualifications: Killer. Terrorist. War Criminal. Leader of the terrorist gang Irgun. Responsible for the Deir Yassin massacre, the bombing of the King David Hotel, etc, etc,...

LIKUD PRIME MINISTER, Y. SHAMIR.

Qualifications: Killer. Terrorist. War Criminal. Operations commander of the terrorist Stern Gang. Together with Stern proposed a war-time alliance with Adolf Hitler and the establishment of a totalitarian Jewish state. Responsible (with Begin) for the Deir Yassin massacre. The organizer of two infamous assassinations: the killing of Lord Moyne, the British Minister Resident for the Middle East, on 6 November 1944; and the slaying of Count Folke Bernadotte, the UN's special Mediator on Palestine, on 17 September 1948.

LIKUD PRIME MINISTER, B. NETANYAHU.

Qualifications: Bungler thief/con-man. One of the more moral Israeli prime ministers. This war criminal was responsible for ordering the shelling and bombing of civilians (by Israeli military forces) in Lebanon.

LABOUR PRIME MINISTER, E. BARAK.

Qualifications: Assassin. In Beirut 1973, Barak (while dressed as a woman) assassinated the Palestinian leader Kamal Edwan, together with his wife and seven year old daughter. Other members of Barak's death squad, killed Abu Youssif al-Najar, the poet Kamal Nassar and their families.

LIKUD PRIME MINISTER, A. SHARON.

Qualifications: Killer. Terrorist. War Criminal. Presided over the massacres of some 2-3,000 civilians at the Sabra and Shatilla refugee camps in Beirut. Founded Unit 101 (a notorious death squad within the Israeli Defense Force). For many years, commanded cross-border Unit 101 raids, for example, the 1953 massacre at Qibia (Kibya) where civilians were blown up inside their houses (and shot dead if they tried to flee).

[Djinn]

38. can't explain

appaerntly alluding to it is against the rules (even if you don't mention the name) and a warning shortly follows

[bemildred]

31. AA fire seems pretty token. 21 rounds.

"fighter-jets released red balloons to divert missiles
and anti-aircraft artillery"

Seems odd, ballons won't divert AA fire, heh, and I was not aware
that Hizbullah had SAMs. But there is a lot I am not aware of
I suppose.