Student Calls Campus Symposium Anti-Israel Hate-Fest

[Herschel]

Jewish and pro-Israel students at Pace University in New York are criticizing the school for holding a Middle East symposium that excluded speakers who support Israel.

The symposium, part of Human Rights Action Week at Pace, included a lopsided panel of left-wing authors and members of socialist organization, but not a sing pro-Israel speaker. Jewish student David Tobey, who attended the event, says although the school assured him the forum would be focused on Israel's controversial security fence, the discussion often deviated from that issue.

"Tangents went everywhere, from Israelis targeting women and children in buildings and that sort of ridiculousness to the massacre in Jenin -- you know, 5,000 dead and of course, there were absolutely no bodies," Tobey says, referring to much-disputed reports of an alleged Israeli attack against supposedly defenseless Palestinians. "In fact," he notes, "ten Israeli soldiers were part of the majority of the bodies found in Jenin."

cut

http://headlines.agapepress.org/archive/3/12004f.asp

=========================

Sadly, leftist views on this matter often go unchallenged. It would be gratifying to see an effort to present more pragmatic views.

[GabysPoppy]

1. But then they might have to face the truth.

"Free speech" must have multiple definitions I guess.

[Resistance]

13. in all likelihood

an "Anti-Israel Hate Fest" probably amounts to the usual calls for Non-violent resistance, working for peace, sympathizing with victims on both sides.

I mean, we've heard that the ISM is the same as Hamas; therefore, we know how badly things can be twisted to make a nice headline.

[GabysPoppy]

17. Once again

you have hit the nail on the head. Well done.

[Resistance]

19. thanks.

So, the event really was only the usual Leftist-type calls for non-violence, demanding that leaders work towards peace, sympathizing with innocent victims from both sides - but then is spun into an "Anti-Israel Hate Fest" in the same way that the ISM is portrayed as being "one and the same as Hamas".

[GabysPoppy]

20. ISM and HAMAS

one and the same. Same stated purpose, same ideals.

Shit by any other name, smells the same.

[Resistance]

21. ROFL

yeah, and promoting peace, sympathizing with victims, and calling for non-violence is really an "Anti-Israel Hate Fest".

:crazy:

too funny.

[Muddleoftheroad]

2. Were I that student

I would get a hold of the alumni database (usually it's open to students and graduates) and I would send out a mailing to as many as I could informing them of this and urging them to withhold support. Hit 'em where it hurts.

[Name removed]

4. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[lefty_mcduff]

8. Uh-huh.

Soviet era K's and home made bombs against T1 tanks, Apaches, Cobras, Bradelys, Sidewinders and Mavericks, Flechette rounds, etc. What chance do you think anyone has of 'driving Israel into the sea'.

It's bullshit macho posturing - common when idealogues are involved in armed conflicts. Read some of the Likud chest-beating. It's all tough guy stuff - generally for domestic consumption.

There, I 'focused' on it.

[lefty_mcduff]

5. That would be spam.

And that would be bad.

[Muddleoftheroad]

7. Not spam

Direct mail. It's legal, though more expensive. You could do the whole thing for a couple hundred dollars and most of that postage.

[lefty_mcduff]

10. Perhaps you should read the .alt news groups

that deal specifically with spam.
Their mantras are 'it's not about content - it's about consent' and 'my computer, my rules'.

Never said it was illegal.
Said it was bad. And it is.

(edit - misunderstood. Thought discussion was about e-mail. Apologies)

[Muddleoftheroad]

11. Direct mail is not spam

It's the stuff you get in your mailbox every day.

[lefty_mcduff]

14. Whoops. Sincerest apologies.

I thought you were talking about e-mail.
You're absolutely right.
Ignore my other post.

Gotta have my second cuppa coffee before I start reading DU....

[Muddleoftheroad]

15. LOL

No problem.

[lefty_mcduff]

3. There you go with the 'leftist' label again....

If you're going to toss around the 'leftist' label as a slur, you could also mention that the web site you quote from is decidedly 'right wing' and hardly a font of 'pragmatic views'.

[Name removed]

6. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Scurrilous]

9. Paging Daniel Pipes....

...outbreak of free speech at Pace University. Lopsided panels of left-wing authors have student in uproar. Discussions are rumored to have deviated from promised topic. The tangents went everywhere!

Herschel is right! This must not go unchallenged!

On edit: added link to Campus Watch for anyone who wants to drop a dime on these leftist retards.

http://www.campus-watch.org/

[Cassandra]

18. It doesn't require Daniel Pipes...

to say that the "Massacre of Jenin" never happened.

[el_gato]

12. what a Crock

every thing is anti-isreal if it's not totally pro-isreal to some people

[Resistance]

16. exactly

this is one of the funniest threads I've ever seen here.

[tinnypriv]

22. I'm still waiting for the same people to condemn this 'bias':

ACPR FORUM No. 35

The ACPR will be holding a full-day symposium on the topic of

JEWISH SELF-HATRED

at the Eshel HaShomron Hotel in Ariel

on WEDNESDAY, March 3, 2004 beginning at 10:00.

The schedule of discussions is listed below.
The panelists will each present their topic for 20 minutes
followed by 20 minutes of discussion by the panel.

Schedule:

JEWISH SELF-HATRED: THE SYNDROME

10:00-10:40 Arieh Stav:

Presentation of the topic

10:40-11:20 Dr. Manfred Gerstenfeld:

"Jews Against Israel on the University Campuses"

11:20-12:00 Elyakim Ha'etzni:

"Jewish Self-Hatred"

12:00-12:40 Dr. Ahuva Feldman:

"Jewish Self-Hatred"

THE DIAGNOSIS

12:40-13:20 Arieh Stav (presenting the material for Dr. David Bukay):

"The Character of the Diaspora Jew:
The Real Danger to the State of Israel"

---------------------------------------------------------

13:30-15:00 Break for Lunch

---------------------------------------------------------

15:00-15:40 Moshe Shamir:

"Assimilation as an Expression of Self-Hatred"

15:40-16:20 Professor Shlomo Sharan:

"Jewish Self Hatred and the Search for Normalcy"

16:20-17:00 Dr. Netta Kohn Dor-Shav:

"The Psychological Roots and Implications of
Pathological Jewish Self-Denigration"

17:00-17:40 Professor Noah Milgram:

"Ten Psychological Principles to Account for
National Suicidal Behavior"

17:40-18:20 Professor Hillel Weiss:

"The Stigmatizing of the Biblical Ethos as Seen
in the Tanach from Early Days until Today in
Understanding the Phenomenon of Self-Hatred"

18:20-19:00 Professor Paul Eidelberg:

"Israel’s Degradation and Final Redemption"

..

How biased is that? Not one ISM speaker! :7

[tinnypriv]

28. Still waiting.

[Forkboy]

23. a more reliable source

would be appreciated.

[_Jumper_]

24. So is the US media enganged in a giant anti-Palestinian hate-fest?

How many pro-Palestinian voices are there in the media, particularly the television media?

[Muddleoftheroad]

25. The moral equivalency argument

Maybe there aren't that many because Americans recognize the realities of the I/P conflict.

[Noon_Blue_Apples]

26. yes, the insightful american populace

can't pull the wool over their eyes...

Yup, that 'balanced' american media we read so much about around here.

go figure.

I guess it's like why the media is pro bush - because the americans realize the realities of this administration..sure

[Muddleoftheroad]

29. Even a blind squirrel finds nuts sometimes

The nuts in this case are all part of the Palestinian terror network.

[Forkboy]

27. Yes,I'm sure that's it

[_Jumper_]

30. Why does the entire world disagree with Americans?

Even the Israelis themselves think we are too pro-Israel!

[Muddleoftheroad]

31. Yes, we are pro-Israel

That just happens to be the correct position. The majority is not always correct -- or moral.

[_Jumper_]

32. Why does the entire world disagree?

And why do most of them favor an even-handed policy? Are they all dumb?

[Fight_n_back]

33. Define "most"

do you think the muslim theocracies want a balanced approach?

What nation is willing to defend a single Jew if it means losing its oil source? Are you fergetting what the OPEC oil embargo was all about?

[_Jumper_]

34. Virtually everyone except conservative Muslim states

It isn't about defending Israel in the case of countries that aren't great-powers. What position Argentina, New Zealand, or Mali take on the I/P conflict is just an expression of their opinion. They face no real cost either way based on how the vote in the UN.

Did the OPEC oil embargo change American I/P policy an iota? That is an honest question BTW. I am new to this forum and haven't been an avid follower of the conflict but I do suspect that it had no serious effect on US I/P policy.

[Fight_n_back]

35. First what do you think the policy is?

The talk is that it is rabidly pro Israel but US troops have never defended Israel against attack have they? What countries in the Middle East is the US in? Who have they defended?

The oil embargo ended when the US agreed to sell Saudi Arabia f-15s and provide training. This was not a huge departure from what had happened before.

You should also research the history of US military aid to Israel. You probably have a misconception of it. Most people do.

How would Americans react to a PResidential candidate whose family was business partners with a huge Israeli firm or even Sharon himself? I can guess how you would react...Who is the Bush family business partners with? Why the very family that funded the 9/11 attacks but its his support of Irael you find appalling...

[_Jumper_]

36. Response

I believe the policy is blank-check support for whatever the Israeli government does domestically and in the disputed territories.

Having US troops in Israel would be a PR disaster. The Kuwait "defense" was more of an offense than a defense. However, I do agree that the US will never send troops to fight for Israel but it would fight for an oil-rich ally or an economically important ally such as Japan or the UK. However, it is also clear that Israel has gotten away with things that no other country could have gotten away with. The USS Liberty attack and Lavon Affair are prime examples.

"You should also research the history of US military aid to Israel. You probably have a misconception of it. Most people do."

Any suggestions? :) I am here primarily to learn.

"How would Americans react to a PResidential candidate whose family was business partners with a huge Israeli firm or even Sharon himself? I can guess how you would react...Who is the Bush family business partners with? Why the very family that funded the 9/11 attacks but its his support of Irael you find appalling..."

I am not one of those blank-check supporters of the Palestinians who
thinks they can do no wrong and believes a small country like Israel is an "evil empire." I support Israel have an unrestricted right to combat terrorism. There is nothing in the world I hate more than radical Islamist terrorism. I also have no respect for Arafat and the PA. Here is what my current I/P views are:

1) Allow Israel to do whatever it needs to do to dismantle the terrorist networks.
2) Support the wall/fence--but only on the Green Line.
3) I support starting to negotiate immediately with a Palestinian leader that does not have ties to terrorism.
4) Condition a final agreement on an end to terrorism, acknowledgment of Israel's right to exist.
5) Be more even-handed diplomatically because our policy in this conflict is the #1 reason Muslims hate us. That doesn't mean I think we should cut off aid to Israel, or even reduce it but I believe that we should make an honest effort to get Israel to freeze and eventually dismantle the settlements. If they don't comply, then punish them via cutting off aid like we would with any other recalcitrant country. Pressure them to share water equitably with the Palestinians and improve the human rights situation for the Palestinian people.
6) Make Jerusalem an international city under UN control. That is the only viable settlement to that issue since both sides will refuse to give it up due to religion.
7) Pressure Israel to minimize civilian causalities. No looking away when peace activists or 15 year olds waving to UN workers are shot or killed.
8) No blank-check vetoes for Israel at the UN. If the vote is very lopsided, like 120-5, avoid the embarrassment and abstain instead of vetoing--unless the resolution is egregious such as the infamous "Zionism=Racism" one. I would not have walked out the UN Conference on Racism.

With respect to Saudi Arabia, there is no country I hate more than Saudi Arabia. It is the #1 threat to us because it is exporting the ideology of terrorism around the globe. I would bite the bullet and cut off all ties with it until it stopped exporting hatred and terrorism, even though this would increase gas prices.

[Fight_n_back]

37. Regardigng 5 and 6

being even handed should have nothing to do with whether muslim contries hate us or not. By the way, Bin Laden hates us because we support Saudi Arabia. He doesn't give two shits about Israel.

Jerusalem should be a split city, like Berlin was. It has always been the capital of Israel and msking it international does nothing except bring back the specter of the Crusades.

Regarding US aid to Israel...

The US supported the Arab states in the 1948 war and no significant military aid was given to Israel until 1973 when she was almost destroyed in a war. That prompted the oil embargo. This was Nixon's classic Triangulation foreign policy. Find a rivalry (China/Russia) support both sides but support neither side and leverage that against both for better deals.

Carter did not give blank check support, he brokered peace between Egypt and Israel.

Reagan was nuts and didn't do much positive in the region.

Bush I was all about oil and helping conservatives win in Israel. Although I think he started sending money to Jordan in exchange for a treaty with Israel but that may have been Clinton.

Clinton almost had a landmark agreement for peace (Arafat agreed but then publicly denounced the plan, shocking and angering Clinton)that led to Barak's defeat and the current debacle began with the donut eaters election. Clinton helped legitimize Arafat.


And knock off the Liberty stuff, I have more respect for people who say they were abducted by aliens than people who think that Israel attacked the largest nation in the world and provide neither evidence nor motive.

[_Jumper_]

38. Response

"being even handed should have nothing to do with whether muslim contries hate us or not. By the way, Bin Laden hates us because we support Saudi Arabia. He doesn't give two shits about Israel."

National security is always a part of foreign policy. You are right about Bin Laden but most his recruits joined because of the hatred generated by the US role in the I/P conflict.


Jerusalem cannot be split. How do you argue with people who cite an ancient book of questionable veracity as justification for keeping a piece of "holy" land? We would face WW3 if we gave the Temple Mount/ Al-Aqsua to Israel.

I know that America has not supported Israel in crunchtime when it is actually fighting but it is supplying Israel with more weapons than any other country. We do to an extent to guarantee overwhelming military superiority to Israel which is taking sides.

When have American presidents forced Israel to change its policy on the ground? For instance, stopping construction of settlements. Look at what happened when Bush Sr. tried to to do it.

That was Clinton. The Jordan/Israel treaty was signed in 1994.

I believe Arafat needs to go.

Maybe if the investigation of the Liberty attack wasn't blocked we'd know for certain what happened. However, right now it appears Israel did it, and the blocked investigation certainly indicts that. Surely they did not block the investigation to protect Nasser's Egypt. Motive? Doing it and blaming Egpyt to damage US/Arab relations and possibly even bring the US into the war. Basically the same thing as the Lavon Affair. Do you deny that "incident" happened?

[Fight_n_back]

39. Which of the 24 investigations into the Liberty was blocked?

The transcripts from the planes has been released, all evidence has been gone over. Israel apologized and paid reparations what do you fucking want? We didn't do any of that when we shot down the Iranian airliner. (or was that on purpose, too?)


Jerusalem is currently a split city and should remain so and be the capital of both nations. And no I don't think the fact that Muslums use a dusty book as justification for being in Jerusalem makes sense but they are living there now so what are you suppossed to do?

[_Jumper_]

40. US-Israel.org says there were 13

Isn't that an AIPAC-like site?

Some people allege they were coverups and not legitimate, a la the Warren Comission. The only sites or commentators you can find on this are generally either anti-Semitic or pro-Israel--except a few actual crew members (politicians aren't reliable. Dean Rusk says it was intentional, McNamara says it was a mistake). The History Channel documentary found that Israel intentionally did it. Do you have a link from an objective source to support your claim? I am prepared to believe it because it obviously seems odd but I have not automatically dismissed it because of the Lavon Affair precedent.

Here is an interesting allegation:
http://english.pravda.ru/main/2002/07/04/31794.html

"A message from the USS Liberty got to the USS Saratoga 9 minutes into the attack. The USS Saratoga launched a flight of fighters immediately and they were called back. This happened three different times throughout the attack. Robert MacNamara called them back twice, and President Johnson called them back once, saying his thoughts were not for the USS Liberty. He did not want to embarrass his ally Israel. That act did leave us to get murdered, and what it actually is called is abandonment."

Is that true?


You have to give the "holy" Temple Mount/Al-Aqsua to one side if you divide the city into two. That is DOA. Do you support a join Israeli-Palestnian administration of it? The Jews also use a dusty old book to claim they own that land so don't pretend that the Muslims are alone in doing that.

Have you been able to recall one time a US president forced Israel to do something major regarding its policy in the domestic/occupied territories? I don't know of one but I am not an expert in this area like you appear to be. I do know that Eisenhower did stop the UK/French/Israeli attack on Egypt in 1956 but as far as "local" affairs are concerned all I know about is Bush I--who was a popular president at the time--being throughly embarassed by AIPAC for trying to get Israel to freeze the settlements.

[drewb]

41. QUOTE... "what do you fucking want?"

Honesty and truth, not necessarily in that order.

Thank you.

:loveya:

Oh yeah... I'd like my tax dollars back too.

[GabysPoppy]

42. Without doing the math

Your portion might be about $.27

Do you want a check, cash or money order?

[drewb]

43. Paypal...

Is that .27 for this year? Since it's so trivial perhaps we could do it based on an 80 year life span and take care of it all at once...

.27 here, .27 there, pretty soon we are talking real money...

:loveya:

[Resistance]

44. Hey man

for just pennies a day, you too can help massacre the Palestinian people. Your generous donations helps tremendously with bulldozing their homes, stealing their land, and occassionally slamming a missile into a crowd of civilians!

Pretty cool huh!!

:party:

[drewb]

48. Sally "Resistance" Struthers...

:party:

:loveya:

[lefty_mcduff]

45. You may wish to do the math

Google is your friend.
Try 'total US aid to Israel' for starters

[GabysPoppy]

46. Divide that into the the entire budget outflow

when you get that %, multiply that by your personal outlay of tax dollars. Then come back and tell me what your portion was.

[lefty_mcduff]

47. That's not how it works.

And you know it.
Besides, you threw the number out.
Without doing the math. To illustrate *your* point.
I merely offered that if you're going to use numbers, you should do the math and quote *accurate* numbers.

To be honest, I don't give a fuck what *my* portion is.
I look at the total amount.

[GabysPoppy]

49. But Drew seemed to be

And to calculate "your" portion, nothing is wrong with my math.


I don't care what your portion is either.

[Noon_Blue_Apples]

50. 'But Drew seemed to be' what?

"But Drew seemed to be And to calculate "your" portion, nothing is wrong with my math."

just so we are clear on what you are suggesting others are able to do or have done.

What is it that Drew seemed to be able to do?

restate your .27 claim?

Are you claiming Drew validated your number?

Just so we are clear on your assumptions and statements regarding others

B

[Fight_n_back]

51. You mean from Arafat?

since he skimmed from US aid and sent it to his Swiss Bank account?