Baruch Goldstein and Hebron Ten Years Later

[Herschel]

What really happened ten years ago, in Hebron, at the Cave of Machpela - the Tomb of the Patriarchs - or, as the Arabs call it, the Ibrahimi Mosque? The short answer everyone "knows," is that Dr. Baruch Goldstein carried out a massacre on the Jewish holiday of Purim, February 25, 1994. But a new study by Rabbi Dr. Chaim Simons - entitled "Did or Did Not Dr. Baruch Goldstein Massacre 29 Arabs?" - has just appeared ahead of the tenth anniversary of the event. In it, Simons questions the "common knowledge" and raises some serious issues that need to be addressed.

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Rabbi Dr. Simons reviews the events leading up to Goldstein's attack. He raises the issue of Goldstein's prior knowledge of intelligence warnings that Arabs planned a massacre of Jews - Goldstein was an emergency doctor for the Kiryat Arba Terrorist Attack Response Team - to take place that Purim morning in the Cave of Machpela. He discusses whether Goldstein "planned" an attack on Arabs, or "responded" to what he saw as the Israeli army's indifference to an impending attack on Jews. He questions, "What if a Government Fails to Act?" and then analyzes the legal status of "Killings Sanctioned By Law", discussing "killing as an act of self-defense", "killing due to necessity" and "killing during a war".

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http://www.israelnationalnews.com/article.php3?id=3408

[no_hypocrisy]

1. Let me get this straight: an alleged pre-emptive attack on Moslems

by Baruch Goldstein, targeting people indiscriminately, who are praying in their house of worship because there MIGHT have been a plan to attack residents of Hebron may be considered "self-defense" and not mass murder as per the author.

But when Baruch Goldstein is killed consequent to his attack on Moslems in their mosque, praying, THAT is murder, NOT self-defense.

[Resistance]

2. Israel National News

is totally racist - they don't even pretend not to be.

Keep that in mind.

[Jack Rabbit]

3. The facts of this case have never been disputed

Goldstein drove to a mosque with a loaded weapon and opened fire worhipers during services. This was not a terrorist cell; this was a house of worhsip. The only rationale for this act lays in believing that all Palestinians are terrorists or that the Islamic faith preaches terrorism.

The facts do not support any conclusion other than that Goldstein's act was planned and deliberate. The rationalizations for Goldstein's behavior reportedly provided by Rabbi Simons are every bit as absurd and offensive as those often seen in the worst of the Arab press for suicide bombings. Apologists for Palestinian terrorists will also point to the inability of the PA or international authorities to respond to Israeli injustices; we are right to reject such rationales, even if they have some basis in fact. There is simply no rationale for the murder of innocent people.

Goldstein's atrocity was by no stretch of the imagination self-defense. It was a massacre of 29 worshipers at a mosque whose crime was being Palestinian people living on Palestinian land.

Goldstein died a racist mass murderer. His apologists should hang their heads in shame.

[GabysPoppy]

5. Ditto

n/t necessary

[Trajan]

4. Pitiful ...

Apologia for a filthy animal ....

This man killed worshippers who were unarmed, prostrate and completely innocent ...

I have seen many things in I/P, but this one takes the cake ..

How sad is this ? ....

[Forkboy]

6. I feel warm and fuzzy all over

[newyorican]

7. INN is obviously taking lessons...

from The Onion.

[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

9. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Scurrilous]

10. Dozens celebrate 10th anniversary of Goldstein massacre

http://www.maarivenglish.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=article&articleID=4133

<snip>

"Exactly ten years ago, Baruch Goldstein murdered 29 Palestinians during a prayer service at the Cave of the Patriarchs. Earlier today (Saturday), memorial services were held at Kiryat-Arba and Hebron synagogues for the soul of Goldstein, who sextons called “a saintly person”.

In private conversations, many praised Goldstein’s act, saying he “did the right thing”. Red wine bearing Goldstein’s name was handed out to synagogue members. On the bottle’s label, it was written, “A wine that won 29 awards”, as the number of Palestinians he killed.

Participants also sang songs in his honor. One of the songs states, “Sing, brothers, the song of rebellion, the song of vengeance. The pain is great as burning fire… He was a hero, a merciful doctor, and a humble God-fearing person. Be blessed, Baruch Goldstein, you sanctified God’s name at the Cave of the Patriarchs.”

On Saturday night, ultra right-wing Kahana activists had planned to hold the traditional celebration in front of Goldstein’s Kirayt-Arba burial-place. However, Judea and Samaria Police District have announced that the grave area is to be declared a sealed-off military zone as they plan deploying large contingents in an attempt to block the access to the area. As a result, the dozens of Kahane activists will hold the gathering at the nearby park named after their founder Rabbi Meir Kahane."

[_Jumper_]

11. Herschel

Do you condone Goldstein's terrorist attack?

[drewb]

12. btt...

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:loveya:

[Herschel]

13. By most accounts

Dr. Goldstein's actions were unwarranted. A different view is presented here, though not widely held. I am inclined to agree with those holding Dr. Goldstein's actions as unjustified. Your characterization of it as a terrorist act is inaccurate in any case.

[Jack Rabbit]

14. Characterization as a terrorist act is inaccrate?

Goldstein went into a mosque with a loaded weapon to kill whoever was there. He knew he would probably be killed in the process.

The only difference I can see between Goldstein's act and a suicide bomber's is choice of weapons. The MO and motive are the same. The result was a bunch of dead innocents and one dead terrorist. That, too, is the same.

How am I wrong?

[Herschel]

15. If we assume the account

holding Dr. Goldstein's actions as unjustified, it would seem he acted out of an unbalanced state of mind. Terrorists act with forethought, planning, and typically the complicity of their organization.

[GabysPoppy]

16. You may be right

No question Goldstein's act was as deplorable in its results just as is a suicide bomber. Weighing the factor that martyrdom and 72 virgins or whatever do not come from Judaic teachings, or encouragement from Israeli leaders as do suicide bombings which in some cases are praised by Palistianian leaders(?) - the logical conclusion is that Goldstein was an unbalanced madman.

Another point is that this is from the Kahane group which can never be praised for any of their actions. To insinuate that this in anyway typical of Israelis is slanderous in any form. Yet the fact that some here would do so is not surprising in the least. I have seen worse and have come to expect it from some.

[Herschel]

17. Indeed

Branding Dr. Goldstein a terroist implies organized support for his actions.

[Jack Rabbit]

18. This is certainly not typical of Israeli behavior

Goldstein's behavior as an act of individual terrorism is unusual among Israelis.

Nevertheless, it seems perfectly justifiable to call this a terrorist act. Many acts of terrorism are committed by "unbalanced madmen". Goldstein seems no more imbalanced than most suicide bombers.

We should note that the Israeli government seems to agree that Goldstein's act was one of terrorism, since part of its reaction to the massacre was to outlaw as a terrorist organization the Kananist group with which Goldstein was affiliated, the Kahane Chai.

[GabysPoppy]

19. Here is where we disagree, Mr. Rabbit

"Goldstein seems no more imbalanced than most suicide bombers."

There is a large part of the Palestinian population that doesn't consider a suicidide bomber imbalanced. They are considered martyrs and heroes to be honored. Parents with but a few notable exceptions are proud of their sons and now daughters becoming suicide bombers.

You seem to be basing your judgement of "imbalanced" with a western definition of the word "embalanced". It is true that anyone taking their life by wrapping a bomb around themselves is a madman or crashing a 757 air liner into a building has to be crazy but by whose standards? I think this is a mistake that most westerners make all the time. I for sure will never understand this mentality but it's something that we will have to come to grips with.

[Resistance]

20. what is the point you are making?

That Goldstein is not as vicious and demented as the suicide bomber who blows up bus-riding civilians?

Or that a "large part" of Palestinians think suicide bombers are O.K. while Goldstein's actions are only O.K. to a tiny segment of Israelis?

Look at your post above. You write: "To insinuate that this in anyway typical of Israelis is slanderous in any form" but then you turn and try to say that a "large part" of Palestinians don't consider suicide bombers imbalanced. Explain to me how your characterization of Palestinians is not as slanderous as the insinuations you denounce in the quote above.

[Herschel]

21. If I may

You will recall a recent posting of mine showing a terrorist organization, Hamas, as the leading party in one of the disputed territories. Clearly, there is significant support for terror amongst Palestinians. I will leave it at that.