Palestinian mother shot dead in Israeli raid (Jenin being attacked again)

[Aidoneus]

Palestinian mother shot dead in Israeli raid
Tuesday 09 March 2004

A young Palestinian mother has been shot dead and a journalist wounded by Israeli occupation troops during an invasion into the northern West Bank town of Jenin.

Dalal al-Sabagh, 23, was hit in the head and the stomach as she tried to move one of her three children away from the window of the family's home during the shooting, witnesses said.

Aljazeera's correspondent reported that Israeli troops, backed by armoured tanks raided the town and opened fire randomly, killing the woman and injuring three others, including a photographer working for Agence France Presse. The news agency said its employee was wounded in the leg.

The army said it allowed a Palestinian ambulance to take the photographer to a local hospital.

--snip--

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/24870FCE-1332-422A-89EA-9CEDB2F39467.htm

[stopthegop]

1. if they're occupation troops...

why would they have to invade...seriously..can't have it both ways

[Aidoneus]

2. the entire region is considered occupied

however, those that enforce this status cannot be present in every inch at once. The IDF military base near Jenin is in the north edge of town, with other and larger bases to the southeast near Qabatiyah and also to the southwest.

Would you clearly dispute the designation of the status of either term applying, or will a vague reference due for now?

[stopthegop]

3. I think the area is occupied...

and as such using the word 'invade' is only to stir emotion...which is already in amply supply ...

[shadu]

4. How about condemning the monstrous action of the IDF?

That is the main point.
These semantics mean nothing.
While we are at it, why not condemn
the ongoing monstrous action of the IDF?
I think we should start there as that is the root of all
evil.

[stopthegop]

5. because I don't believe the actions of the IDF are

the root of all evil...I believe the PA gets a much larger share of the blame...

[Resistance]

8. since when is condemning murder

the same as stating that the IDF are the root of all evil?

:shrug:

[stopthegop]

9. pls see #7

[Resistance]

10. what does the Jenin massacre have to do

with condemning murder?

[stopthegop]

12. it's a question of knowing what really happened...

if the facts are as stated, it's murder and should be punished as such...if the facts are not as stated...we're being lied to again by one side of the dispute

[Resistance]

14. unbelievable

OK then, the next suicide bombing story that comes out, I'll expect you to be just as suspicious that we might be being "lied to by one side" (implying that the bombing never happened)

[stopthegop]

15. expect as you wish...

[lefty_mcduff]

13. How so?

The IDF are the one's with all the guns, tanks, apache helicopters, bradleys.

[mmm]

6. Welcome shadu!

You certainly don't mince words.
Yes, I condemn this monstrous killing.
The IDF responsible should be hung out to dry
with the rest of the camel dung.

[stopthegop]

7. if the facts are as stated...

no real reason to assume they are...remember, the original Jenin 'massacre' never happened according to the UN...

[Name removed]

11. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Resistance]

16. it won't happen

they will never give up.

[Herschel]

17. Given the history of the IDF

it is unlikely this was murder.

[lefty_mcduff]

19. Probably

More Keystone Kops bumbling. For the love of Gawd get these guys some better training....

[Herschel]

20. Their training is exceptional

Ask countries in the region that have attempted to engage them. This particular matter is the unavoidable result of civilians being in an area of IDF operations.

[Resistance]

21. much like

Dead bus-riders are the unavoidable result of civilians being in an area of Hamas operations.

Thanks for clearing it all up, Hersch.

[Herschel]

22. How dare you

Do not compare this act of murder with operations against terrorists.

[Forkboy]

23. Butterflies

[lefty_mcduff]

26. The former head of Shin Bet disgrees with you.

As do I. Do you disregard his "exceptionally trained" opinion?

This 'particular matter' (nice double-speak - it's actually an innocent woman taking an IDF bullet in the head and stomach as she tried to protect her children inside her house) is a result of heavy handed blundering around in civillian areas.

It's about the only thing the wankers in the IDF are trained for. Big tough guys...

[Herschel]

28. Your continued criticisms of the IDF

center on a handful of innocent victims. Countless others have been spared by their skill and morality.

[lefty_mcduff]

29. Wow - your definition of a 'handful' is quite different than mine.

These are fully armed thugs roaming around civilian areas, reinforced by Apache Helicopters, Predator drones, T1 Tanks and Bradley Fighting Vehicles. Their adversary is at best, poorly trained civilians, armed only with Soviet Era Kalashnikovs and home made bombs. Maybe a RPG or two. Kind of Star Wars vs. The Flintstones.

You'll excuse me if I reserve my admiration for someone a little more worthy.

I'm also not particularly fond of military bullies who use a lop-sided war on 'terrah' as an excuse for war crimes, murder, and incompetence that results in the unnecessary deaths of civilians. I know what skill is. I know what morality is. The IDF are not great at exhibiting either.

On edit - you also ignored the point from the Shin Bet dude. Care to comment on that while you're at it?

[Herschel]

30. I simply disagree

with the "Shin Bet dude".

Surely the Israeli forces outgun Palestinians. We can only wonder why they do not face this reality and continue their suicidal resistance. Again, I would emphasize the IDF is held up for a handful of civilian deaths, yet there are countless more spared by it's skill and morality. If not, the Palestinian carnage would be remarkable.

[Darranar]

31. By that logic...

China is among the most moral nations in the world, because it hasn't destroyed the world with its nuclear weapons.

[mmm]

18. If you are looking to ease the plight of the Palestinians

perhaps you have come to the wrong place.
Please look at the ISM website.
They are an excellent humane organization
and they accept donations.

Good to see you here, my friend.
Be careful, I have seen many a poster
I/P banned from DU.

[drdon326]

24. Oh...Golly Gee Whiz....

You mean I *CAN* contribute to those great humanitarians??

I'm grabbing my credit card as we speak.

[tinnypriv]

34. Which verb would you prefer

Instead of "invade"?

Just curious.

[Djinn]

25. my fav

"The army said it allowed a Palestinian ambulance to take the photographer to a local hospital."

how nice of them! - I guess she should be thankful for small mercys

[Herschel]

27. Palestinian ambulances

are used for transporting militants and weapons. They are allowed to pass with IDF approval.

[thebigidea]

32. Palestinian doctors are all actually Hamas operatives as well

again, is there ANY incident of a Palestinian being murdered that you would condemn or just feel slightly uncomfortable about? Just ONE?

[Herschel]

36. Hamas operatives would pose as Palestinian doctors

Your question was answered previously, and the implication is not appreciated.

[Djinn]

33. and Israeli armoured carriers

are used to transport the people who kill PAlestinians and destroy their homes.....mmm wonder where t\ this logic goes...

[Herschel]

35. It is your statement

Only you can tell us.