EU won't recognize changes in Israel's 1967 border

[Scurrilous]

http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/spages/408961.html

<snip>

"The European Union said on Thursday it will not recognize any unilateral change in Israel's borders from before the 1967 Six Day War.

The EU took the stance in an apparent bid to reject any effort by Israel to use the security barrier it is building in the West Bank to change borders unilaterally."

<snip>

"The European Union will not recognize any change to the pre-1967 borders other than those arrived at by agreement between the parties," said a draft statement approved by EU foreign ministers for issue on Friday at a bloc summit."

<snip>

"The EU reiterated a policy set last month that any unilateral Israeli withdrawal from the Gaza Strip must be a step towards a two-state solution, must not involve a transfer of settlement activity to the West Bank and must involve an organized and negotiated handover to the Palestinian Authority."

[Muddleoftheroad]

1. The border is not with the EU

And they can shove it.

[ex_jew]

2. Just curious...

how many people did MLK tell to "shove it" ? Yet you obviously admire him. It's a puzzlement.

[chickflick]

3. MLK Jr. was a peacenik.

He advocated civil disobedience and peaceful protest, not hawkish (retaliatory or not) murder from afar.

[Muddleoftheroad]

5. Dr. King did not advocate murder, nor do I

[chickflick]

10. That depends upon what your definition of 'murder' is...

Or you can call it manslaughter, involuntary or voluntary, negligent homicide, casualities of war, collateral damage (very insulting--people being killed are not collateral damage--a home of an innocent destroyed by a bomb is collateral damage) or say the "incident was regretable" (which is a demeaning and mocking since it lacks sincerity).

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=worldNews&storyID=4676879

NABLUS, West Bank (Reuters) - A six-year-old Palestinian boy was shot dead when a Palestinian gunman opened fire at an Israeli military jeep during a raid in a West Bank refugee camp on Saturday, the Israeli army said.

Palestinian residents said the dead boy, Khalil Walwil, was killed either when soldiers on a nearby hill opened fire at the building while he stood by a window or when troops shot at Palestinians throwing stones at Israeli forces in the camp.

An Israeli military commander, who was in the jeep that came under fire, said the boy was killed when a Palestinian gunman in an alley shot at his jeep as forces left Balata camp. The commander said none of his troops returned fire. "I did not fire back at him (the gunman) because his fire was not accurate," said the commander, who under military regulations could only be identified as Lieutenant Colonel Guy.

The boy died of his wounds on the way to hospital. Palestinian medics said that soldiers stopped the ambulance transporting the boy to hospital for 15 minutes. The army said it was checking the report. A spokesman said that Lieutenant Colonel Guy had offered to transport the boy to hospital in a military ambulance but family members had refused.

Israeli soldiers raided the camp to search for militants planning suicide bombings, but left empty-handed.

<more>

[Muddleoftheroad]

14. Death by cancer isn't murder either

The term is pretty clear.

Governments MUST protect their citizens from criminals. Since the Palestinian leaders and people have decided to tolerate such criminals living among them, they place themselves at risk when forces come in to deal with the threat.

[chickflick]

17. Sharon needs a catchy phrase

like this:

STEADY LEADERSHIP IN TIMES OF CHANGE.

Sharon could appear in front of a picture of the latest bus bombing.

Both sides elect criminals or allow the criminals to dictate policy.

Economically, I don't think the Palestinians have much choice. They'd be living elsewhere if they had any money.

Personally, I have no stake either way in this conflict, so don't flame me.

[Carl21014]

24. Whose the criminal?

Who is stealing land and building illegal settlements? Israel, that's who!

[Name removed]

32. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Muddleoftheroad]

4. I doubt there is a historical record

LOL.

I am a Christian and admire Christ as well. I also am a realist and know I am a sinner. I am human.

Wow, told them to shove it. Guess that makes me another Yassin.

[sushi]

13. Not another Yassin

Just one who thinks Israel can do no wrong. How wrong you are!

[Muddleoftheroad]

15. Israel does wrong, naturally

No state is perfect.

One of the mistakes Israel has made is not building the Peace Fence sooner and not totally disengaging with the Palestinians.

[Name removed]

16. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Muddleoftheroad]

18. Ah, yes, someone else who seeks to define terms for me

Sorry, but supporting terrorism isn't progressive.

[bluesoul]

19. I don't support terrorism

nor do I support Sharon, Likud and their brutal policies (which I wish could say for some others here). Nice try though...

[Muddleoftheroad]

20. And being against terror

Is not necessarily un-progressive. Nice try though...

[sushi]

21. And the biggest mistake

is occupying other people's land. No fence will bring peace until they leave.

[Muddleoftheroad]

22. Until they leave

Well, the definition many Palestinians use for that statement means Jews leaving the Mideast. After all, the Arabs ethnically cleansed them from virtually the entire Arab world first.

[sushi]

23. I'm sure

there are Palestinians who want Jews to leave the ME, just as there are Jews who want all the Palestinians to move to Jordan. So what!That won't happen. What must happen in order to bring peace to the region is that Israel leaves the occupied territories, and the Palestinians get their own state.

[Muddleoftheroad]

25. The Palestinians who want Jews to leave

Are no small number and many, like Hamas, will keep fighting no matter what.

[sushi]

27. So what , Muddle!

Who cares how many Palestinians want Jews to leave the Middle East. It's not going to happen, unless the Jews themselves want it. Israel, the country, exists, and it's there to stay. The Palestinian people also exist and are there to stay. All they need now is their very own country.

[Muddleoftheroad]

28. It means the Palestinians don't offer peace

When Israel made pacts with Jordan and Egypt, they got peace in return. Until the PA eliminates or massively curtails the terror threat, then they can't offer peace.

[sushi]

34. To make pacts

you have to talk. It is clear that Israel's leadership is avoiding negotiations. Why should the Palestinians alone offer peace? That sounds one-sided.

[Muddleoftheroad]

36. Palestinians alone have something to gain

Israel it seems will gain nothing while the Palestinians gain a state. What does Israel gain?

[Darranar]

37. Security. n/t

[Muddleoftheroad]

38. Who is offering that?

Certainly not the Palestinians who, according to the latest polls, support attacks on Israeli civilians by 53%.

[Darranar]

41. Who is offering the Palestinians a state? n/t

[Muddleoftheroad]

42. They were offered it

They turned it down.

[Darranar]

43. They were not offered a "state"...

they were offered a dependency.

[Muddleoftheroad]

44. Ask Ireland how that works out in the end

[sushi]

45. I agree with Darranar

that Israel offered the Palestinians a dependency. Israel wants to be in charge of practically everything, in other words, Israel wants to run a Palestinian state. Be honest, would YOU have accepted that?

[sushi]

39. What does Israel gain?

PEACE!!! That's what they want, isn't it?

Israelis already have a state. I find it most selfish and unreasonable to deny the Palestinians a state.

Why does this conflict last so long. Other people also need the world's attention, like the Kurds, the Armenians, the Tibetans.

[Muddleoftheroad]

40. I wish, but it isn't true

The Palestinians aren't offering peace. Hamas and others have sworn to fight till Israel is gone from the map. (Maps, you remember those things that the Palestinians use that don't even include Israel?)

Since they don't offer peace, they offer nothing.

[Violet_Crumble]

29. So, many Palestinians are anti-Semitic??

I'd say there'd be just as many Israelis who are bigoted against Arabs. As to how many there are, I doubt you or I are experts on that, and I'd think it was utterly ridiculous to make a claim that many think in such an ugly way...

The definition commonly used by most people when they talk about the occupation of Palestinian land is quite simple. It's referring to the land occupied by Israel which is commonly referred to as the Occupied Territories or the West Bank and Gaza Strip. That is the occupied land that the Palestinians want, and considering they lost so much more than that back when Israel was created, it's not a real lot for them to want...

Violet...

[bluesoul]

30. Precisely!

They only want what is theirs and belongs to them (according to all post WW2 agreements and UN resolutions etc)..

Nothing more

[blurp]

26. And just how do you decide who owns the land?

So, who's rules should apply in that part of the world? That's really what ownership of anything means, afterall -- control.

So tell me, why do you think the most liberal, democratic nation in the middle-east (Israel) should control less land?

[Violet_Crumble]

31. Easy....

So, who's rules should apply in that part of the world?

The rules of international law should apply in that part of the world. Is there some reason Israel should be exempt from it while other states are held to it?

So tell me, why do you think the most liberal, democratic nation in the middle-east (Israel) should control less land?

Because that land isn't part of Israel. Last time I checked there was no special exemption for democracies when it comes to the acquiring of territory during conflicts being illegal...

Violet...

[sushi]

35. As Violet said

international law has decided. It's accepted by the whole world that the WB and Gaza don't belong to Israel.

So tell me, why do you think the most liberal, democratic nation in the middle-east (Israel) should control less land?

What kind of question is that? What are you saying? That Israel, as the most liberal, democratic nation in the middle-east, can just help itself to other people's land?

[methinks2]

46. definition of democratic?

"the most liberal, democratic nation in the middle-east (Israel) " Israel is not a democratic nation. It is a theocratic nation. If Israel was a democracy, I think there might already be Peace in the region. There are many Peace loving Israeli's who would welcome Peace with their neighbors. Unfortunately they are not well-tolerated in their own country. http://www.jfjfp.org/news28/28masha.htm

[Darranar]

48. How is Israel a theocracy? n/t

[methinks2]

50. They base things like divorce law on religious grounds.

If Israel was a true Democracy, it would not arrest and prosecute the citizens who protest the wall. A true democracy would allow full freedom of speech, that would include the right to say where you work. Look at the case of Vanunu. His crime was to tell that he worked at a nuclear plant. The entire world knows that israel has "Weapons of Mass Descruction". Why would saying it be a crime? Israel still has a long way to go before they are a democracy. They can start by speaking the truth to their own people. And allowing their citizens to speak the truth.
Also if they were a democracy, they wouldn't be afraid the allow the indigenous peoples full civil rights.
What is being done to the palestinian people is identical to what was done to the American Indian peoples in our own country. Israel should be ashamed!

[Muddleoftheroad]

49. Peace?

And many Palestinians have sworn to see the destruction of Israel. No matter what Israel does, it won't have peace.

[methinks2]

47. Here is a great article on the fence, CNN

It points out that the Christians are getting the pointy end of the stick from the Sharon ADmin. "Israel's Christian problem"

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/04/01/israel/index.html
CNN.com - Israel's Christian problem - Apr 1, 2004

[sushi]

12. The diplomatic service

is not for you, Muddle!

[cantwealljustgetalong]

6. Israel to EU...

AU...BU...CU...DU...EU...FU...

[Darranar]

7. Good for them. n/t

[number6]

8. nor should they...

.."The European Union will not recognize any change to the pre-1967 borders other than those arrived at by agreement between the parties," said a draft statement approved by EU foreign ministers for issue on Friday at a bloc summit."

good for them ...

[Aussie_Hillbilly]

9. Anti-semitism!

Proof that Europeans are all freedom-hating holocaust-denying antisemites!

Israel must begin targeted removals of these ISM-like terror enablers. Israel has the right to defend herself.

[Flagg]

11. we hate Israel because of their freedom

[Cassandra]

33. Who asked them?

Shall we rummage around Europe and count the unilateral border changes still in place?