PA refuses to address terrorism; Israel cancels handover after bombing

[drdon326]

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/A/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1061350049557

A Palestinian suicide attacker detonated a bomb packed with bits of metal on a Jerusalem bus carrying Jewish families returning from evening prayers, killing at least 20 people, including five children and an American.

The attack Tuesday night was one of the deadliest Israel has seen in the past three years of violence. More than 100 people were injured, 40 of them children, hospital officials said. Two more people died Wednesday, raising the toll to 20.

The Palestinian terror groups Hamas and Islamic Jihad both claimed responsibility for the attack, which marked perhaps the most serious blow yet to the U.S.-backed "road map" peace plan unveiled three months ago.

Israel immediately froze all contacts with the Palestinian Authority and canceled the planned handover of two West Bank towns to Palestinian control, a move that had been expected later this week. The Israeli army also closed border crossings to seal off the West Bank and Gaza Strip.

snip

Palestinian Prime Minister Mahmoud Abbas condemned the attack and said it "cannot serve the interests of the Palestinian people." He ordered Palestinian security forces to investigate.

..............................................................

uh-oh....a FULL investigation??....wow, impressive.

reminds me when yassir "investigated" just how the boat-load
of death called the Korine-a just happened to be going
to the pa??

[Devils Advocate NZ]

1. Or the time B'tselem received a document that proved...

that IDF "investigators" had found that a Palestinian child had been killed by IDF troops illegally but then recommended that it be covered up:

Options for Action
1. There is suspicion of firing in violation of the regulations + suspicion that the gunfire killed and wounded innocent children. A thorough Military Police investigation should be ordered (among the matters to be examined are which open-fire directives were given to the force and whether it could be positively determined that it was that gunfire that struck the children).

2. The shooting was justified - the incident as a whole had a combat nature, grenades were thrown earlier during in the day, the whole area is dangerous, the gunfire was justified, if innocent people were harmed, one can only regret it. See the proposal for a reply letter to B'Tselem, derived from choosing this alternative.

3. Despite the combat nature - the shots were warning shots - which were not fired according to regulations: they were fired from a heavy machine gun and not light weapons and toward children. However, in light of the confrontation, the grenades, the danger etc. it is not a "gross deviation" from regulations and disciplinary action against whoever fired warning shots from the tank should suffice.
http://www.btselem.org.il/Download/Whitewash_Eng.pdf

Which of the three options do you think the IDF chose? That's right, the one that cleared them of blame - Number 2!

[rini]

2. Excuses

excuses! There is no excuse, no justificationa and most important;y no equivelency.

[Violet_Crumble]

3. Yeah, after all it was only a Palestinian child...

And of course there's no equivAlency between the killing of Israeli children and Palestinian children. </sarcasm tag off> There's absolutely no justification (sorry I dropped the a you added to the word) for intentional cover-ups of any deaths, whether they're Israeli or Palestinian...

Violet...

[Name removed]

4. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Violet_Crumble]

6. I value all lives equally...

So don't try that crap on with me. Now, maybe you'd like to explain why the value of the life of a Palestinian child isn't equivalent to that of an Israeli child?

Violet...

[Yentatelaventa]

20. Do you support the Palestinian attacks against Israel citizens?

Yes or No.

[Violet_Crumble]

24. That's easy to answer...

No. And if you'd read some of the threads here you'd have spotted that I'm totally opposed to attacks against civilians regardless of what nationality or ethnic/religious group they are. I've also got a major problem with the sort of people who try to define Palestinian civilians as terrorists by labelling them 'future terrorists' in some sort of attempt to dehumanise them and make their deaths more palatable. But we won't ever see you trying that, will we?

Now, yr turn to give a concise answer. Do you support the Israeli attacks against Palestinian civilians? Y'know, stuff like dropping a bomb on a building full of innocent civilians, including babies and children? Yes or No.

Violet...

[Jackie97]

39. I love those "Do you beat your wife" type of questions.

After all, anybody who values a Palestinian life as much as an Israeli life must be for suicide bombings, right?

This is why people aren't listening to "pro-Israelis" when there really is anti-semitism. Maybe if you all didn't accuse every other person of anti-semitism and of being for attacks, then maybe more people would listen to you more when you really are the victims of anti-semitism. I remember a time when I wasn't hardly listening to the local Jews at all when they spoke of anti-semitism because it seemed like they were accusing every pro-Palestinian of anti-semitism. At least, that was my point of view. I admit now that I was in the wrong for thinking that way, but that doesn't change the reality that other people do think that way. When you burn them enough times with the anti-semitism/support of suicide attacks charge,they just don't want to listen to you when you really are in trouble. They don't believe you.

[drdon326]

5. These murderers were cowardly bastards.

now hamas and ij are falling over themselves
taking "credit" for the kill.

6 kids butchered.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/030819/168/50oo8.html

hudna= reload, rearm,re-enlist

[Violet_Crumble]

7. You might be more convincing...

If you gave a toss about it when Palestinian kids get killed. For some reason when someone flails around with self-righteous outrage over the deaths of one group of kids while staying silent or even defending the killings of other kids, it just comes across as ever so fake. And I honestly think there's some folk who are so screwed up that they almost start slobbering with glee when a suicide-bombing happens so they can go into a frenzy calling the suicide-bombers the exact same names they call Ambrozi and all the other suicide-bombers that have done the same thing. Doesn't do anything for the cause of trying to discuss why these things happen and what the implications of it happening might be, but I guess it gives some folk a warm, fuzzy feeling if they just sit there and screech names at someone who even if they were still alive, wouldn't give a shit what some middle-class Yank thinks of them...

Violet...

[papau]

30. The rest of the story - Arafat only agrees to PR and marching cutback

from the AP:

"In the end, Abbas and Arafat agreed on a joint statement which said the Palestinian Authority would enforce the rule of law, take control of illegal weapons and end "military displays" by the militants, a reference to marches led by gunmen.Islamic Jihad and Hamas officials said they were ordered by Palestinian police not to speak to reporters, and many leaders of the two groups had their phones turned off Thursday.The Palestinian leadership statement did not refer to arrests, which would appear to be a cornerstone of any crackdown, but Palestinian officials said there would be detentions. "It's a campaign that even in the worst nightmares Hamas and Islamic Jihad never imagined," said Elias Zananiri, a spokesman for Palestinian security chief Mohammed Dahlan. "There's a list of people to be arrested."

[Violet_Crumble]

8. The headline doesn't match the story...

It said the PA refuses to address terrorism, yet the article says this that contradicts the headline...

Palestinian Prime Minister Mahmoud Abbas condemned the attack and said it "cannot serve the interests of the Palestinian people." He ordered Palestinian security forces to investigate.

The Palestinian Authority also decided to cut all dialogue with Islamic Jihad and Hamas and instead use security forces to take action against the groups in the coming days, a Palestinian official said on condition of anonymity. It was unclear what sort of action was planned.

Abbas was meeting with Islamic Jihad leaders in the Gaza Strip at the time of the explosion, to persuade them to halt attacks.

I'm sorry, but maybe the definition of addressing terrorism used by you and JPost is 'let's bomb the fuck out of these bastards and let's not give a shit about how many Palestinian civilians we kill in the process'?


Violet...

[papau]

9. "cut all dialogue"after during dialogue killing 6 kids, 14 adults, 80 hurt

Seems like a reasonable think to do.

Since this whole thing is about security - why will the Israeli side do anything more now beyond speeding up the building of the fence? What "words" will move the process? It may be time for PA action against Hamas.

Meanwhile I see that the fence the US army is building in Iraq around all US areas has the same design as the Israeli fence.

Interesting - but sad.

:-(

[rini]

10. Abbas

is as full of crap as some writers on this board! All talk, so easy to say "oh, how awful" and then do nothing to bring the murderers to justice. They name summer camps and streets in their honor, play rap music glorifying them while crying crocodile tears over the victims. Palestinians don't value the lives of their own children or they wouldn't send them out to murder other children. As for equating death, the Arabs deliberatley, as policy, ordain the murder of Israeli children and the Israelis punish anyone who deliberately murders. There is no equivelency.

[Devils Advocate NZ]

11. Sounds good...

except they don't.

As I showed, B'tselem knows and can prove that time after time, intentional killings of Palestinian civillians have been left uninvestigated and unpunished. The case I showed may or may not have been intentional, but the IDF decided not to even investigate, and the only reason we know this is because they fucked up in this case.

I bet you the person who accidentally sent this file to B'tselem was more harshly punished than the soldier that blew one Palestinian childs brains out and rained them on another.

There is one Palestinian child who is likely to take up arms against the IDF, don't you think?

[Violet_Crumble]

26. The Arabs?

You insisting on referring to the Palestinians as Arabs is setting off the same Bigotry Alarm Bell as when anyone insists on referring to Israelis as the Jews. Of course you can't provide any evidence of this fictitious policy where the Palestinian leadership orders the murder of Israeli children. I don't know why yr having so much trouble with this, but dead children in this conflict are dead children no matter what nationality or ethnic group they are and every death is tragic and should be denounced. I'm sorry you don't feel the same way...

Violet...

[Muddleoftheroad]

12. Balance

Violet

Notice how the JPost actually INCLUDES quotes from the othe side.

[vierundzwanzig]

13. Yeah

they're balanced. I noticed that.+

[Violet_Crumble]

25. Muddle...

Including quotes from the 'other side' doesn't make something fair and balanced. Do you think that Faux sometimes quoting Democrats makes them fair and balanced? When it comes to JPost and quotes, their journalistic integrity leaves a bit to be desired after the episode where they included a quote from Erekat, but just happened to totally misquote him...

Violet...

[Muddleoftheroad]

40. I never said fair

But if you include an official statement about an event from the other side, that does accomplish some balance.

[Darranar]

14. The act of terror on a Jerusalem bus...

was of course a despicable murder of civilians. However, Sharon responded in his usual way, overreacting greatly by canceling the handover and cutting off negotiations. The only way to stop things like this from affecting both Israelis and Palestinians is through efforts for peace. Sharon canceling those efforts is a sign that he has little inclination to stop these attacks the only way that he can.

[rini]

15. Well,

then let's say we over reacted to 9/11. Shake hands with Bin Laden, offer him part of the US to become a whahabbi country, of course no border guards and no retaliation when Philli is next or Dallas (forget that, Texans don't lie down for anyone, except idiot republicans) so let's give them Michigan with embassies in Toledo. The new left has their heads up their...

[Devils Advocate NZ]

16. So what are you saying?

let's say we over reacted to 9/11. Shake hands with Bin Laden, offer him part of the US to become a whahabbi country

Are you saying that recognising the Palestinian state is the same as giving part of Israel to the Palestinians?

Perhaps your anaology would be better if you said:

"Shake hands with Bin Laden and remove US forces from Saudi Arabia"

Except that is actually not an unreasonable option is it?

Perhaps you DO mean that recognising the Palestinian state is the same as giving part of Israel to the Palestinians?

[bemildred]

17. I, personally, would give them Washington DC,

if we could keep the rest of the country in peace.
In a pinch, I'd throw in Texas.

[rini]

18. obviously

well, we should get the hell out of Saudi. We have had troops there since the 60s. I'm saying one damn terrorist is the same as another. NO NEGOTIATION! My such a nice loyal citizen of......? Obviously not this country.

[bemildred]

23. Incoherently?

I do think bringing our troops home is a good idea.
Many of them appear to think that is a good idea too,
as do a lot of people elsewhere in the World. We might even
be able to balance our budget that way.

Negotiating with a dead man does seem stupid.

I am a loyal citizen of the United States. I have a flag on
my truck to prove it. Many loyal citizens of the USA think the
assholes in Washington DC are full of shit.

Are you a Saudi?

[Darranar]

32. What?

I live near Washington, DC, my financial security depends on that city. DON'T GIVE IT AWAY! As for Texas, good riddance.

[bemildred]

33. Heh.

:thumbsup:

[Equinox]

27. I'm a Texan. I don't lie down for Republicans.

You don't make much sense anyway.

[rini]

29. I doubt your

a Texan because we are living with the possibility of
1. having to give back all the land won in the Mexican war
2. losing English as a first language
3. a conservative democrat in TX is worse than Ashcroft and may just get elected, are you running?

[Equinox]

35. I'm not sure what the hell you are saying....

...but rest assured I'm a Texan born and raised in Richardson/Plano. (That's North Dallas for ya).

[rini]

38. Lubbock here

then you should know better.

[Equinox]

42. Know better about what?

I have to be quite honest, you really don't make much sense.

[Darranar]

31. Yes, we did...

we overreacted to September 11th. We attacked a sovereign country, blasted its infrastructure, killed hundreds of civilians, and then swept it off the table when it came to discussing Iraq.

We should have sent in special forces to destroy the terrorist bases and tried to capture Bin Laden. We should have targeted terrorists, not the nation as a whole.

[rini]

34. I

agree, but we had to do something. My immediate thought was "kill them all and G-d sort them out." I calmed down.

[Equinox]

36. Yeah...

You sound like a real stable individual.

[Noon_Blue_Apples]

37. speaks volumes

"Kill them all"

to even entertain the notion

[Muddleoftheroad]

41. This has potential for another thread but I disagree

We demanded action from a nation state that was harboring criminals who had attacked the U.S. The nation state -- Afghanistan -- refused to comply, which put them in a position of supporting an act of terror against the U.S. -- the worst such act in the history of the U.S.

The ONLY response in a situation like that is war.

[QuietStorm]

19. Jerusalem Post is basically

Foxnews. RW Spin and Likud propaganda. Once you unravel it neither are worth the read or the watch, respectively.

[Noon_Blue_Apples]

21. Like selfish people who always go...

I was going to give you/do this for you but now...

Ya, sure thing.

Maybe if Israel ever followed through...

Sharon and his partisan supporters thousands of miles away have yesterday's blood on their hands as much as any palestinian.

Much like the UN in Baghdad, knowing religious fanatics I have no clue who is really bombing who anymore.

It's obvious some don't mind if their actions lead to the death of those they believe they are protecting...as thier priority seems to be feeding their addiction to hate.

B

[bpilgrim]

22. isn't the IDF in control of security there? maybe they are traitors?

arrest them all!

peace

[Equinox]

28. Great post.

n/t