Jewish communities planned to 'block Bedouin expansion'

[Classical_Liberal]

ens of thousands of Bedouin live in the Negev in dire conditions, in 45 villages that continue to grow. Unrecognized by the state, the villages are not connected to the national water and sewage systems, their garbage is not collected and they do they enjoy other community services.

The state and the Bedouin have not yet reached an agreement on solving the problems of the Bedouin community. Regardless of this, the ministerial committee for the development of the Negev and the Galilee decided some three months ago, at the instruction of Housing Minister Effi Eitam, to form a team to locate lands for new Jewish settlements in the region to block the Bedouin's expansion.....

The team checked 18 Negev sites for various "qualities," including their ability to block the expansion of the nearby Bedouin villages. For example, in the case of a settlement planned near the Bedouin village Beit Pelet, the team wrote, "It forms a settlement contiguity and prevents the expansion of the Bedouin community northward."...

A few weeks ago the Interior Ministry's southern district director, Dudu Cohen, held a first discussion in his office to advance the process. The participants talked of blocking the Bedouin expansion and agreed this terminology could not be used in official documents. Some things should not be declared out loud, one official said....

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/435516.html

[Trillo]

1. Such a romantic existence!

Seriously. I remember reading about the Bedouin life in a recent issue of National Geographic, in an article about Saudi Arabia. Some of them make extremely high amounts of money from the breeding and trading of camels.

I remember wondering if that type of existence isn't closer to our natural environment than the technological world we all know so well. I found myself sort of longing for that type of existence.

Of course, in the U.S. the government owns all the land that isn't populated. So much for that daydream.

[Classical_Liberal]

2. Hunter Gatherers who live on undomesticated plants and animals

are closer to our natural existence than the bedouin. They herd domesticated animals for trade and have market economy. I don't really pine for their existence. Most Pastorial groups, like them are very war like. They tend to get into conflicts over territory. This legacy can be seen clearly, particularly in Israel/Palestine. That is probably why the middle-eastern cultures became so Patriarchal. The Arabs of Mohammed's day were like this, and the Hebrews of the Bible were like this. One should not romantisize any culture. Granted they are alot like Cowboys, being animal herders, but the cowboys had a dark side too.

[Trillo]

3. I generally don't know much about Isreal/Palestinian affairs

except what I read in the news. I have heard that "education" tends to be pushed in Jewish families. How does Palestinian culture perceive education?

One should not romantisize any culture.

Including our own. While education is largely fine for those who achieve post secondary degrees, we have a system of social and economic hierarchies, as many as can possibly be created, above the large mass of citizens, largely headed by those who were able to stomach the higher educational process.

That ignores the vast majority who only have high school level education and are largely not compensated at any point in their lives for what they know or the time they spent in a classroom chair doing the bidding of teachers, but only what they can accomplish (often strict labor) for the various pyramidal leaders' benefit instead of their own survival. This is somewhat marked by the absence of survival skills in those of only high school education relative to those considered, for example "professionals", and is further marked by the existence of an educated over-class that preys economically and legally (sometimes even illegally) on the masses at every conceivable opportunity.

I'm not certain this social and economic system is superior in any way, except in its ability through oil to feed a larger mass of people than tribal systems tend to allow, and in creating a certain advanced level of technology in the various sciences that has coincidentally led to a population bubble. From what I've been able to gather, in the "old days", skill sets were passed in families from parents to children. Yes, these skill sets may have been patriarchal in gender orientation. But, at least the children had a skill set passed to them so they could "survive" as an adult, if not thrive.

Modern education, at least in the earlier levels, fails to convey survival skill sets, delaying those value added skills till the second half of post-secondary education, creating a parasitical class that is often arrogant, hypocritical, and non-compassionate towards those of lesser means. Why shouldn't they be? They have what the masses do not, by design, and they revel in it.

It is modern-day society's version of territorialism. Nothing much has changed except the surface appearance.

I'm not convinced that a system of education passed from parent to child wasn't better, although it certainly didn't convey the highly specialized skill sets modern society tends to idealize (romanticize?) so highly. Are we now at the point where even highly specialized skill sets are being marginalized by corporations seeking the lowest paid workers who can be trained to do certain tasks?


In all fairness, there are now too many people for the natural environment to support, and if a Genie came along, wiggled their nose and magically converted our whole society to a hunter-gatherer or even tribal society, there would have to be a severe shrinking of the total world population. Cannibalism would likely rear its ugly head in any type of food shortage.

The larger question in my mind is what right does a modern society have to absorb and convert other alternate social and economic systems? All systems appear to have their own unique problems, and getting rid of one set only serves to create a different set of problems and issues.

[Classical_Liberal]

4. Class stratification and unfair class related skill sets certainly

are not unknown to any culture that depends on a market based economy. The Bedouin are no exception. Cannibalism and famine, has occurred in the documented histories of all literate peoples. They can also be documented archaelogically in the pre-literate people when something goes wrong with the environment they live in. It has been documented in paleolithic sights, among the Neaderthals, and Homo Erectus, and among the civilized but non=literate Anastazi sights in the American South West. Cannibalism has also been documented in written history during several darkages that occurred in the middle east among the archaic Greeks and certain Egyptian Dynasties.

[Fight_n_back]

8. Pet Peeve

"alot"
is two words.

Im not much of a grammer sherriff because I am, in general, dull witted but this one bugs me.

[Gimel]

5. Selective quotes

Your selective quotes fail to show the total picture here. However, it is clear that these communities are still at the planning stage. Resources have to be found for building even to begin building one community even.

Some of the issues you have raised have been addressed as well. The interest of some to build for Jewish families, without regard to Bedouin, needs to be address, and planning for Bedouin communities needs to be done also. Ideally, with the input of those community representatives, as to how to build a neighborhood which would compliment their traditions and life-styles.


Prof. Eli Stern, whose office Svivotichnun surveyed possible sites for the Housing Ministry in the past, said phrases about blocking Bedouin expansion were used only in internal debates. The main activity focused on checking what land the Bedouin have no ownership claims to, to ensure the land could be built on.

It seems that the "blocking of the expansion" is based on understanding the areas. The Bedouin communities have rights to certain lands, but not unrestricted rights to the entire area.

Furthermore, planners are receiving input from concerns for Bedouin rights. These need to be taken into consideration also.

[Classical_Liberal]

6. It's called Segregation n/t

.

[Gimel]

7. See my post

In your other thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=124&topic_id=71353&mesg_id=71584&page=