Palestinians turn on tunnel men (Reuters)

[Liberal Classic]

http://www.reuters.co.uk/newsPackageArticle.jhtml?type=worldNews&storyID=524037%A7ion=news

This citation is of the first part of the article.


Sun 6 June, 2004 05:43

By Nidal al-Mughrabi

RAFAH, Gaza Strip (Reuters) - Mustafa used to fear little but a periodic Israeli army raid as he dug arms smuggling tunnels into the Gaza Strip for the Palestinian revolt. Now he has to worry about the neighbours too.

Running guns and contraband through tunnels into Rafah refugee camp from nearby Egypt was once both profitable and patriotic in Palestinian eyes. It put rare cash into a poor economy and fuelled "resistance" to Israeli occupation in Gaza.

But communal support for the smugglers has cooled as Israeli forces have razed more and more parts of Rafah said to be hiding tunnels. With 13,000 people now homeless, many of whom say they concealed nothing, residents are turning on the tunnel men.

"Many people now oppose our work. I know of cases where people have noticed others digging a tunnel and they have assaulted them," said Mustafa, a veteran Rafah tunnel builder who declined to give his family name.

Residents have staged no public protests against the tunnel networks for fear of seeming disloyal to the uprising in Rafah, which is dominated by militant factions.

But the tunnel issue has become the talk of the town, with many residents privately urging tunnel builders to cease, and threatening them and their families if they do not.

The backlash has grown since a six-day Israeli siege of Rafah in May that killed 42 people, militants and civilians alike, and displaced hundreds after a spate of demolitions.

Some tunnels have been blocked off by irate residents concerned their adjacent homes might be bulldozed or blown up during the next Israeli army sweep.

Many in the sprawling cinder-block camp of 80,000 people fret that the spread of tunnels has given raiding Israelis leeway to flatten any housing in their way.

U.N. refugee agency figures put the number of demolished houses at 1,300 since the uprising began in 2000. The Israeli army says it has found and destroyed 90 tunnels in that time.

"Tunnels are harmful," said Mariam Abu Shaqfa, 50, whose house was severely damaged in last month's incursion even though, she insisted, there were no tunnels in her district.

...

[drdon326]

1. Tunnels ?!?! What tunnels??

.

[Classical_Liberal]

2. and since nothing short of covering the whole of Gaza

with cement will stop the building of new ones, and the tunnels are also used to smuggle duty free consumer items, this is still a pointless over reaction.

[Liberal Classic]

4. This is somewhat of a defeatist attitude, is it not?

Certianly, there is some worth to curtailing arms smuggling. Better that the Palestinians police themselves, no?

[bemildred]

3. Reminds me of the "truce with al Sadr's militia" stories.

You can find somebody to say almost anything, but that doesn't
mean any meaningful change has occurred. As it sits, this appears
to be after the fact justification for the atrocities committed in
Rafah in May.

[Liberal Classic]

5. I draw no sweeping conclusions from this but

I found it interesting enough to post. I do not believe that this is a scientific poll, but Reuters is a mainstream news agency. They didn't just make up this story, and there may be something vitally important just below the surface.

I believe the only thing that can put a stop to Palestinian terror groups are the Palestinians themselves. Warmaking by the Israeli army may reduce the capacity of terror groups to fight, but not the will.

Consider:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=124x71269

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=124x65719

[bemildred]

6. I think it's wishful drivel.

The stories you link do seem all related somewhat.
I will not go into how, I assume you see it too, although
perhaps not as I do. There is a continuing tendency in the
stories that come out of the "pro-Israeli" side to assume that
what is bad for Palestinians (in general) must be good for
Israel (in general). While understandable in some degree, it
is false. Things will not get better for Israel unless they get
better for Palestinians, just as things will not get better in
Iraq until things get better for Iraqis. The notion that military
force used in the way it was in Rafah can produce any long-term
positive effects is, at best, naive. The place must be policed
indefinitely or the residents must be given better things to do.

[Liberal Classic]

7. Well shucks, wishful drivel then

Here's some more.

The first thread was an article entitled "Death of an Intifada." While I do not personally believe terror groups have been defeated, the article in that thread and the article I posted here are related because they show, at least superficially, Palestinians turning away from terror groups. The second thread I linked was about Hamas' reduced capacity to fight. I see all of these things are related, however, I do not see these things as generally bad for the Palestinians. In the long run I see them as good things, hopefully with some kind of normalization in relations between Palestinians and Israelis. The use of force does not produce immediately positive effects. War is destruction, something at which armies excel as opposed to construction. Inaction on Israel's part is not going to reduce the capacity of terror groups to bomb restaurants and the like, however, where military force will. The question is will Palestinians turn away from terror groups on their own and for their own reasons.

[bemildred]

8. Like I said: "perhaps not as I do".

I do not share your optimism about the utility of military force.
Enjoy your optimism or whatever it is and have a nice day.

Edit: I think the answer to your trailing question, in the present
circumstances, is no.

[Liberal Classic]

9. One can hope

That doesn't mean I have rosy tint lenses.