A parade of charlatans

[Englander]

Hasan Abu Nimah & Ali Abunimah, The Electronic Intifada, 29 December 2004

http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article3463.shtml

Supporters of Israel have often accused Arab states of cynically exploiting the Israeli problem and the suffering it has caused the Palestinians to distract their own populations from domestic troubles. But if this has occurred, others, far beyond the region have also found the conflict a useful tool for their own selfish purposes. UK Prime Minister Tony Blair is the latest leader to brazenly exploit this tragedy.

During recent crises in Middle East, world powers have found themselves in the awkward situation of embarking on military action which risked inflaming Arab opinion, but needing the assistance of Arab states in order to stage the action. This is true presently as it was in 1991 when the United States led a wide, UN-sanctioned coalition to liberate Kuwait from Iraqi military occupation.

Although the 1991 action was authorized by the Security Council and seen by much of the world as legitimate, people in the region could not fathom why Iraq was expected to comply instantly and unconditionally with UN Security Council resolutions demanding withdrawal or face devastating military action, while simultaneously, the Israeli occupation of Syrian, Lebanese, Jordanian and Palestinian lands since 1967 had never been treated with any urgency despite numerous UN Security Council resolutions demanding Israeli withdrawal and an end to Israel's ongoing efforts to colonize most of those lands with its own settlers.

<snip>
....Before the March 2003 Iraq invasion, Blair made bold promises to the Arab world in an interview with the BBC Arabic Service that as soon as Iraq was dealt with, there would be unprecedented efforts to resolve the Palestine situation which would put to rest all doubt caused by decades of Western inaction and double standards. In order to deliver on these promises, and restore lost credibility at home, in Europe and with the UK's Arab friends, Blair needed to demonstrate that his allegiance to Bush over Iraq would be rewarded with influence in Washington that could be used to get the Americans to deal with Israel. But time and again it has been demonstrated that Blair has no such influence and his promises are a devalued currency.



Hasan Abu Nimah is the former permanent representative of Jordan
at the United Nations, and was a member of the joint Jordanian-Palestinian
negotiating team in the Washington peace talks 1991-92.
Ali Abunimah is a co-founder of The Electronic Intifada.

[drdon326]

1. "And the laughs keep coming...."

What a load of unadulterated bullshit.

Supporters of Israel have often accused Arab states of cynically exploiting the Israeli problem and the suffering it has caused the Palestinians to distract their own populations from domestic troubles. But if this has occurred, others, far beyond the region have also found the conflict a useful tool for their own selfish purposes.

"If" this has occured??....exhibit A of distraction.

Although the 1991 action was authorized by the Security Council and seen by much of the world as legitimate, people in the region could not fathom why Iraq was expected to comply instantly and unconditionally with UN Security Council resolutions demanding withdrawal or face devastating military action, while simultaneously, the Israeli occupation of Syrian, Lebanese, Jordanian and Palestinian lands since 1967 had never been treated with any urgency despite numerous UN Security Council resolutions demanding Israeli withdrawal and an end to Israel's ongoing efforts to colonize most of those lands with its own settlers.

OF course the author CONVENIENTLY leave out the fact that Iraq INVADED a sovereign state while Israel has been attacked or has suffered from terrorism from those countries/areas.

I hope the authors jaw doesn't hurt from it being stretched too far.

What a piece of crap.<<cough,cough,bullshit,cough,cough>>

[drdon326]

2. Hey...maybe like at amusement parks...

you should put up a warning like...

"DO NOT READ IF YOU HEART OR BACK PROBLEMS OR IF YOU TAKE OFFENSE TO BULLSHIT LYING PROPAGANDA ARTICLES THAT ARE NOTHING BUT HACK JOBS."


think that might help? huh?

[Walt Starr]

4. Interesting

OF course the author CONVENIENTLY leave out the fact that Iraq INVADED a sovereign state while Israel has been attacked or has suffered from terrorism from those countries/areas.

While you CONVENIENTLY leave out the fact that Israel carved out its existence only by committing terrorist acts against those who now commit terrorist acts against it!

[drdon326]

5. Yeah...we heard that rap....

Unfortunately you forgot to mention that israel targeted MILITARY targets.....we all know about the palestinians terrorists penchant for women and children eating pizza and shopping.

No...those crimes against humanity and incitement to genocide are pretty much now the hallmarks of hamas et al.

[Englander]

9. "Lest We Forget....Folke Bernadotte,Moyne,Deir Yassin"

http://www.sweden.se/templates/cs/BasicFactsheet____4198.aspx#9

Count Folke Bernadotte af Wisborg (1895–1948) was a grandson of Oscar II, king of Sweden and Norway. In 1943, Folke Bernadotte became vice chairman and, in practice, head of the Swedish Red Cross. In this capacity, during the final months of World War II in 1945, he led a Swedish relief expedition to Germany with the famous “white buses.” Bernadotte’s expedition succeeded in saving about 30,000 concentration camp prisoners and bringing them to freedom in Sweden. At the very end of the war, he also passed Himmler’s surrender offer to the Western powers. On May 20, 1948, Folke Bernadotte was appointed the United Nations mediator in Palestine.
<snip>
....On September 17, 1948, the day following the signing of the second plan, Folke Bernadotte was assassinated in an ambush in the Israeli-controlled sector of Jerusalem. The murderers were never found and no one was ever convicted of the assassination. It was, however, commonly surmised from the very beginning that members of the Lohamei Herut Yisrael (LEHY), or the Stern Gang, carried out the assassination. It is now well established that the decision to kill the UN mediator was made by the Central Committee of the LEHY, which included Yitzhak Yezernitzky-Shamir. LEHY saw Count Bernadotte as the main obstacle to an Israeli annexation of Jerusalem and to Jewish control of all Palestine. (Yitzhak Shamir went on to serve as prime minister of Israel in 1983–84 and 1986–92.) The man who held the gun is believed to have been Yehoshua Cohen.
_______________________

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord_Moyne

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deir_Yassin_massacre

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stern_gang

[eyl]

14. You might want to mention

That while the murderers weren't caught, Israel's response was a crackdown on LEHY, arresting many of its members and causing its disbandment.

[newyorican]

15. And electing a committee member PM

some "crackdown"...

[The Magistrate]

17. And Yet, Mr. Englander, So Much Is Forgotten And Ignored

The unfortunate Lord Moyne, for instance. If one accepts that there is any legitimacy to the idea of resistance to a colonial power, then it is hard to see a more legitimate target for such resistance than a leading administrator in that colonial government. As has already been pointed out, the mainstream Zionist organizations not only denounced that act, but took concrete steps against the splinter organizations that had perpetrated it, shopping many members of those groups to the English police.

Dier Yassin is generallly presented as an event occuring in a vacuum, but of course that is not the case. It was one incident in a bitter campaign preceding the declaration of Israel, the "battle of the roads," in which Arab Nationalsit militia bands sought to sever communication between various Jewish lodgements and population centers, ambushing buses and trucks. These efforts were particularly successful in the western approaches to Jerusalem, on which Dier Yassin lays. Zionist militia bands, including in the emergency bands of Irgun, launched an offensive early in April to clear the roads to Jerusalem. Dier Yassin was one point from which the communication was being cut, and therefore was attacked. There is no doubt there was a considerable pitched battle before the Irgun militia entered the town, and it is not easy to seperate the degree of casualties inflicted during the battle, and during the sack. A great many of the accounts in circulation are useless to any reconstruction, being mere exercises in propaganda. There is no doubt murder was done; many of the Irgun men who did it conceived of the doing as vengeance for Arab Nationalist murders conducted earlier in the campaign, of which there were a considerable number. This does not by any means excuse the doing, for punishment for such acts must be delivered to the perpetrator, not just anyone who becomes handy as events develope, but these are facts generally ignored by those who brandish the bloody shirt over this incident. Partisan war, which the fighting of this period certainly constituted, is generally a succession of atrocities by all participants....

[Englander]

23. "You are correct, Sir....."

I posted this wee history lesson,this information,as a counter to the Dis-information,the "military targets" dribble.

On a separate issue,concerning the British/English label,I'd much prefer it if you used "British" rather than "English".It's a small point,although I would not recommend saying someone was "English",if you mean "British", in Belfast,or Glasgow....:-)

[Elise]

6. Nah

Blame the U.N.

or the Grand Mufti

or the Vatican

Nice try, though..........really.

[Walt Starr]

8. Nope, I blame terrorists

Israel was born from terrorism. It only follows that those displaced by this terrorism would learn that terrorism is a means to the end they crave.

If the region ever recognized this, perhaps peace could be achieved. I don't see it ever happening, though.

[pelsar]

21. blame?...

anybody with a bit of knowledge of the jewish immigration just has to look at the numbers....in short: blame the nazis
without them nobody really wanted to come to lsrael. It was they who made any "moral" arugment of coming to palestine and its effects (for the WWII holocaust victims) irrelvant.

After a concentration camp....the word morality and world wouldnt fit properly in the same sentence.

[Walt Starr]

25. So because of what Germans did to Jews

it's okay for Israelis to treat Palestinians like Africans were treated by europeans in South Africa?

I don't get that logic.

[Darranar]

10. And Israel has never invaded sovereign states? n/t

[displacedtexan]

3. When do we give Mexico back its land?

Just asking.

[Elise]

7. ba da bing

Do I hear 'double standard' .............. hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm?

And, speaking of the indigenous people of the USA, when do we leave quietly and given them their country back?????

[newyorican]

13. Now that's a good question...

that is, your underlying question of, how far back do you go to correct wrongs done? A question truely worthy of debate.

A reasonable starting point might be when international law was codified to outlaw certain behaviors from nation-states.

Beyond that might seem unreasonable to much of the intended audience (eg: reparations for chattel slavery, Native-American genocide, Spanish Inquisition, enslavement of Jews by various Pharohs, etc.), no matter the moral weight of the arguement and no matter of the indirect consequences being played out to this day.

[pelsar]

16. ok newyorican....

add to the international law its actual implementation by nation states of the world. Since law and its implementation is based on the current cultures and values its seems reasonable to check out other conflicts and compare those to the present israeli/palestenian one.

you game?.....

[newyorican]

18. I tend to resist comparisons...

as they usually fall far short of the mark (that mark being some degree of accuracy).

I have also found the codified law and its implementation rarely coincide. That does not make the law meaningless, however. I'm not sure if this response makes me "game" or not.

BTW, I am not taking your comments as a re-run of a very old and tired argument about discussing all of the other conflicts in the world before uttering a single word about Israel. I hope my assumption is correct.

[pelsar]

20. comparisons and old arguments.....

of course its and old argument....one that i still dont understand why its not taken seriously by someone from your perspective.

Since I am at the receiving end of zillions of condemnations I wonder if I (and the country I represent) must be so evil...then I look around and find myself perplexed:

Syrian wipes out its own city
France shoots widly in a single non armed riot
etc
you know the list as well as I

and those who condem me, say we violate intl law, and I wonder which law are you talking about, its seems if "everyone else is doing it...and doing it at a scale that is a million times greater than me...so why am I being "picked on"...and yes i use the words picked on because no other word seems to fit. And more important, how are those "laws" applicable just to me?....sort of a form of political apartihide (to use the word in vogue today).

so if you dont want to compare, at lease explain to me, so that I can understand, why am I being singled out? Laws dont sit in a vacuum, their application is based on its peers.

(this goes back to the settlers and the little girl...something I dont think you really understood)

[newyorican]

22. I don't know that you are being singled out...

however there is a separate forum for Israel/Palestine here. The topic has been singled out by those that run this site. It has a distilling effect that some on both sides of the issue find disturbing.

As to the old argument of discussing other nations troubles before discussing Israel, there 2 answers, one easy and the other more nuanced.

The easy answer is that this is the I/P forum, what else do you expect to be discussed here?

The more nuanced (and cynical) answer is something I have picked up through experience. The discussion of "other" nations problem, prior to uttering a single word about Israel always wound up being a diversion from the topic at hand. The discussion of the other nations issues was never completed to the satisfaction of advocates for Israel. Therefore discussion of Israel could never occur and the meeting/evening/discussion was over without addressing the conflict. That, I have learned, was the exact desired effect of this tactic.

Now on a more personal level, I know and correspond with many Israelis though my job. I am an engineer in a firm that produces defense related microwave components. We have a sister company in Israel (for almost 20 years now). I have had frank/heated discussions with about 20 to 30 of them face-to-face (probably more by now, but my memory fails me).

Their opinions run the gamut from strident support for Israeli actions to shock and disgust (often in the same family). This does not make me an expert by any stretch, but I have had and continue to have direct personal contact with those who are living in the zone everyday. These are people that have had me as a guest for Seder in their homes. The topic of my perceptions is always broached by them, not I (as a guest learning about Seder/Mitzvahs/etc., I thought it extremely bad form to bring it up myself).

To a man/woman they understand (while not always agreeing) that my own problem is one of culpability. I don't want something I've developed blowing innocents to smithereens. I don't want my tax dollars to do it either in Israel, the occupied territories or anywhere else.

Now I've probably rambled on long enough, but I felt you were genuinely interested in dialog so I have revealed to you more in this post about myself than I have since I joined DU in 2001. I am, personally, very bitter toward any that would mis-use the products I have designed or helped in designing. That is the source of my angst. Believe it or not my biggest problem is with the US government, and not over relations with Israel.

[pelsar]

24. newyorican....

i appreciate the info....and yes I am genuinely interested as in many respects I live in a "bubble" and fail to understand due to lack of info the "world at large."

my actual interest in "being singled out" is real. It doesnt take away from the conflict on an individual level, it does however put things in a very strange perspective for me. For it comes down to "am I part of an evil regime". Yet when I remember the various rules of engagement" that I've had to "swallow" I say no, how can that be....russia carpet bombs villages, and I have to wait until the shooting is accurate before i can return fire (at one point during intifada II)...and I'm the bad guy (according to UN resolutions etc.)?

I can claim anti semetism, I can claim a very viscious sophisticated PR campaign by the arab countries, I can claim.....but in the end I really dont understand.

the conflict is singled out, its far from being the most cruel, the most viscious, in fact quite the opposite, in a world of violence, on the macro scale, we're tippy toeing through it.

I'm not taking away from the violence nor from the pain that is caused...but something is askewed and I would love to understand why.

[Violet_Crumble]

19. For a double standard to exist...

Wouldn't there need to be demands that all Israelis who arrived in Palestine/Israel from say about 1904 leave quietly and give the land back to those who were there before? Dunno, I looked and looked and didn't see that demand in the article. Is there a quote in there that makes this demand, or must I borrow drdon's groovysuperdupertechosquizzlemisreading glasses in order to read between the lines? ;)


Violet...

[Darranar]

11. When Israel annexes the West Bank and Gaza...

then proceeds to give all Palestinians there Israeli citizenship, then your argument might make some sense.

[newyorican]

12. I believe that was settled...

in a Peace Treaty. Something that has not occurred in the I/P conflict. It was a nice try though.