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Edited on Wed Jan-12-05 12:02 PM by pelsar
sharon.
no one I know is saying he is a "man of peace" he is a "bulldozer" a pragmatic person, he gets things done. That much is pretty much agreed to by all.
All of our security forces agree that there is no military solution to the present conflict. So whats left is when the pragmatic leaders take charge to move toward a non military solution. Sharon, ever the pragmatic person, appears to be doing this.
Part of the understanding of israeli society is to understand that only the "right" can make peace with the arabs. Israel is roughly split 50/50 between right and left. Which means neither side has the power to make any strong political moves. When the right moves (Sadat) toward peace, the left moves with it, That consequently splits the right in to two less powerful camps, and a political change can then occur.
(this happend with sadat and with oslo-as the right joined with rabin)
Either way, we do believe our politicians believe in their causes.
But what of the IDF, its excesses. Yes they exist. You cant put an 18yr old kid, with very little experience in life, especially life and death decisions and expect them to do the right thing all the time.-only a fool could expect that. Our 18-20 yr olds have a lot expected out of them, and for the most part they come through. But if you ask in general do I support them-Damn right. I support them as I support my kids when they screw up at school. Dont you support your family/friends even when they screw up?
The IDF, the mossad, etc aren't some entity...when I go in the reserves and i get a briefing what to expect, I take that very seriously. When the soldiers I replace (be they kids or older reserves) tell me whats been happening, what they did etc, i listen carefully. They explain the mistakes they made, the times they almost shot the wrong person and why, where the jihadnikim hide out between the non combatants, etc Thats the IDF that I know of....its not some "entity" its made up of kids, older adults, homosexuals, girlfriends, etc....people.
The abuse, when it happens is not done by the IDF, its done by individual soldiers-them i dont support when it happens. But I also know that few things that actually happen are so black and white, so I am not so quick to yell guilty, And those of us who have been in those situations know just how difficult some decisions are or how simply some are when you dont have all the information.-which leads to mistakes. Or how sometimes you let your intuition lead....and that too is a very shaky ground with which to make decisions upon, that may or may not prevent loss of life or it may lead to more mistakes....
Its easy to support the IDF, since that means supporting myself, it doesnt mean supporting those who abuse their power, and some are punished for it and some get away with it. (The truth be told, and its no secret, the occupation is destroying the values of our youth, but thats something else)
and a bit of our society. Wasnt it about a month ago the UN had palestenian solidarity day?....you know how i felt?...here the world body is basically saying: you israelis are evil, we, the whole world, supports the palestenanians against you.....for me it was if nothing has changed since jewish history began. I look around at the worlds conflicts and cant for the life of me figure out why us? everywhere else they kill by the thousands, they wipe out cities and yet were the "evil of evils"......forget the politics for a minute, just that feeling makes me feel as is my back is to the wall. We need peace, but not any price, any price is where we've been, and it doesnt lead to good things for us.
that mentality is pervasive within israel. We dont trust the UN, we dont really trust anybody. Countries all act in their own interests, we have only ourselves to lean on. And that little UN palestenian day only reaffirms that feeling.
So Sharon? He gets us out of Gaza, I'll support him...thats him being the pragmatic...and thats what we are more than anything. Most of us, dont have illusions, or god protecting us. We look at the situation from a realistic point of view and make our decisions based on our past and present info.
With the palestenians? we dont know what they want from us, some say this, some say that, we do know, from a purly pragmatic point of view, we're not going to expose ourselves until we know for sure. We dont have to take chances with our own destruction, nor do we have to lower our head, pretend were not jewish, etc (first time in thousands of years). Until its clear to us, without a doubt that we are accepted here, only then will we let down our guard...and its the IDF, the mossad, the shin bet and all those people working 24/7 that are right now pouring over photographs, waiting on hilltops, freezing that are doing that protection, while I play on my computer...and I appreciate that.
i guess thats my bottom line....the IDF, the israeli govt are not entiies but people trying their best in impossible situations, to keep israel secure, and they believe in what they are doing.
The core values of the govt are those that I believe in: civil rights, democracy, etc. Their applications in the impossible situation of a war in a civilian environment makes its very difficult, but the attempts to balance the needs of the military vs civil rights are there. (neither are perfect nor would I expect them to be...way too many factors involved)
i would question if you would find such attempts anywhere else in the world, hence I can easily support both my govt and my army in those attempts. The application is far from perfect, but in an ever changing violent environment made up of people it simply cannot be, to believe otherwise is to believe in fairytales and illusions.
hope that explains something about us....
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