Exhibit of Bombed Bus Draws Opposition

[drdon326]

A traveling exhibit of the bombed-out remains of a Jerusalem bus is sparking opposition from critics who call it a politically charged and one-sided statement.

The twisted wreckage of Bus 19, which has been displayed in several cities in the United States, is what remains of a bus that was struck by a suicide bomber a year ago. Eleven people were killed and 45 injured.

Organizers of the exhibit, which will be the focus of an anti-terrorism rally at a Berkeley park on Sunday, said the point is to show the devastating effects of terrorism.

"We're bringing it around the country to heighten the awareness of the cruelty, the godless brutality of terrorism," said James Hutchens, president of the Washington, D.C.-based group The Jerusalem Connection, formerly known as Christians for Israel.

Critics see the exhibit in a different way, and they are planning a counter-demonstration in opposition of Israeli policy.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A9631-2005Jan14.html

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sad.....some people are offended by these war crimes. Wouldnt want the truth to come out or anything.

[yinkaafrica]

1. there are two sides to every story

Think man, think!

[QueerJustice]

2. I do not see another side ...

...to a homocidal maniacal bombing of innocent families and children on their way to school or work or home ore shopping or.....

[King Mongo]

10. and the other side?

What about Palestinian children killed in school or on the way by the IDF violence?

[ashiebr]

19. I do not see another side .

Sums it all up really.

[Matilda]

21. Palestinians who've been attacked in that way would agree.

n/t

[number6]

3. where's the smashed house - bulldozer exhibit

with small Palestinian child looking though ruble for toys ...

[Paleocon]

4. Don't hold your breath for that one...

I don't think we'll be seeing "the other side of the story" exhibit anytime soon.

:toast:

[Paleocon]

5. What is the real point of the exhibit?

To get even more American taxpayer money diverted to Israel?

:think:

[drdon326]

6. No....

the real point is to show the murder,war crimes ans atrocities committed against israel.

Its a traveling exhibit.....you should go see it...might learn something.

see this...http://www.bus19.org/about.htm


then see this.....http://www.bus19.org/tourstops.htm


you missed the most recent rally....http://sanfrancisco.tribe.net/event/cbdbde2a-5e35-464b-b848-afef99db9f7e?r=10535

[King Mongo]

12. missing other side

Why not show the other side too? What is gained by being one-sided? I think that the exhibit is a great idea, but it should show both sides.

[QueerJustice]

7. better USA ``diverts`` tax money to Israel than...

Egypt....

http://cfrterrorism.org/coalition/egypt2.html

[Paleocon]

8. or to paying for universal health care.

:think:

[King Mongo]

13. not a part of the conflict

Egpyt actually has nothing to do with the Palestinian/Israeli conflict. Giving Egypt money won't prevent Israel from expanding towards the dead sea. Giving Palestinians money, however, would encourage Israel to accept the green line.

[QueerJustice]

15. The Dead sea ...?

[King Mongo]

24. expansion towards the dead sea

Read about the E-1 plan to refresh your memory.

[King Mongo]

9. good idea but missing other side

I think that this is a good idea. However, it should show the other side too.

[Coastie for Truth]

16. The other side....

Saudi Royals ripping off the Saudi proles(1)?

Saudi Royals getting "monopoly rents" for crude oil, giving "bubkas" to the Saudi proles? And spending the rest on un-Islamic bordellos, un-Islamic resorts (where the Christian and Jewish women parade around like harlots, to quote the Mullahs), un-Islamic casinos across Europe and the US.

Saudi Royals getting "monopoly rents" for crude oil - and paying of all manner of Arab mafioso for protection that would make a 1930's gangsta flick look tame by comparison.

Billions for terrorists - what about Islamic tsunami victims in Indonesia?

To quote one of my Islamic friends - gasoline should be as dear as designer mineral water - and the profits should go to build a modern, secular, democratic Palestinian nation and society.

I drive a Prius - my post 9/11 "Protest" - but I would gladly (well not really "gladly" ) pay $5/gallon of gasoline if it were "as dear as designer mineral water" - and the profits actually went (not to ExxonMobil or ChevronTexaco shareholders or to the Saudi Royals) but to the Islamic proles to build a modern, secular, democratic Palestinian nation and society.

The other side is a collection of totally corrupt, autocratic regimes -- even worse then Bush,Cheney, DeLay, Rummy, Wolfie, etc.

1. I am using "proles" in the historical sense of "proletariat" workin folks who shower after work

[Igel]

11. The point is simple.

ME departments, sociology depts., poli sci depts., even English departments frequently have faculty. Frequently it's hard to tell the difference between pro-Palestinian/anti-Israel. Berkeley is especially noted for having, um, let's say "tensions" between Jewish and Palestinian/Muslim groups, and has been in the press a few times because of these "tensions".

Seldom do US research universities have anti-Palestinian/pro-Israel faculty (in fact, "anti-Palestinian" sounds really odd to my ears). It's usually the Jewish group(s) on campus, squabbling with Muslim groups. Unfortunately, it's not a fair fight: anti-Zionist statements are fine, anti-Arab statements are racist.

Jewish groups have been putting the burned out bus wreckage on prominent display, frequently when there are pro-Palestinian meetings or conferences. That way they make no anti-Arab statements; and justifications for Palestinian "resistance" tend to look a bit cerebral and divorced from reality when the audience has to walk past a bus, realizing that many of them arrived at the conference by bus.

MSAs hate the display. I don't think the Jewish groups particularly like it, either. But they have rather different motivations for their feelings, I think.

[King Mongo]

14. not being one-sided

Why are illegal settlements and destroyed homes not displayed too? Or a list of the thousands of Palestinians killed? The first side which attempts to not be one-sided will gain the most support.

[Igel]

18. It's hard to move illegal settlements to Berkeley (although

I must admit, it would be an amusing endeavor).

It's just that when you take a course focusing on Palestinian resistance, and then see there's another course on genocide (prominently featuring Palestine), and then realize there's no course on Israel except the one that has Israel in the title but which is actually about Palestine, you realize there's no need for displaying demolished homes. Every term or two there's a class prominently featuring photographs of such things, personal stories and case histories of Palestinians killed or rendered destitute, etc. There are campus paper editorials bashing Israel/defending Palestinians written by those of Arab, French, German, British, Russian, African, and Latin American descent. There are editorials written defending Israel and bashing Palestinians that kill Jews, but somehow they're all written by the same nationality, "Zionist", if not Jewish.

The Palestinian plight is amply personalized on many campuses, and the injustice made acutely apparent.

The burned-out bus is an attempt to let people know that the Jews that are targetted by Palestinians are people too, and they weren't riding in a tank.

[King Mongo]

22. changing criticism

You know, the funny thing is that if Zionists criticized the Israeli government instead of Palestinians, then the unnecessary occupation would quickly be ended and international criticism would then focus on international terrorism.

In otherwords, if Israel defends itself behind the green line without grabbing land, and seeks internatinional assistance to fight against international terrorism, then Arab, French, German, British, Russian, African, and Latin American folks would defend Israel while criticizing groups like the Hamas.

I agree that the supporters of Israel outside of Israel are having a tough time at the moment defending land grabbing activities.

[eyl]

25. Exactly what in the last 50 years

makes you think "if Israel defends itself behind the green line without grabbing land, and seeks internatinional assistance to fight against international terrorism, then Arab, French, German, British, Russian, African, and Latin American folks would defend Israel while criticizing groups like the Hamas" is true?

[King Mongo]

29. Most humans are against crime

no matter who does it or who it is done against.

[drdon326]

41. King....

I am in envy of your "rose-colored" view of the world.

[Coastie for Truth]

27. If the Palestinians criticized the OILograchs and the autocrats

they would have had a state. The refuges are used and abused by the OILogarchs and autocrats and Prince Bandar's buddies for their own purposes.

[Darranar]

28. How would that get them a state? n/t

[King Mongo]

31. It won't

The only way that Palestinians can get their own state is if they become Zionists and racially cleanse some group from the land that they want to have.

[King Mongo]

30. Palestinian criticism won't remove illegal settlements

Palestinians are not in control of the situation. Israel is responsible.

[Igel]

36. But it has little to do with landgrabbing.

It's completely possible to be against land-grabbing *and* think that non-combatants shouldn't be targeted. And also to think that those non-combatants that are targeted should be considered people.

Seeing the condemnation of kids killed during a IDF/Hamas-IJ firefight is fairly common. A certain subset of college students get upset over it, and nobody justifies the killing of those kids per se. All realize those were kids whose lives were cut short, some mothers' kids. They know it's personal for those families.

Seeing the condemnation of kids killed by a suicide bomber is fairly rare. A certain subset of college students get upset if you try to say those kids were human, some mothers' kids, and argue there's no justification for their deaths. They don't want to think that it's personal for those families. In other words:

Palestinian deaths are the deaths of people. Israeli deaths are just the deaths of racist oppressors.

[Coastie for Truth]

17. A significant part of the Berkeley anti-Israel movement

are the (to quote Bill O'Reilly :( ) "secularized" (to quote R. Kahane :evilfrown: :evilfrown: ) "self hating Reform" Jews. The secularized, self hating Reform Jews who even led the zoning battle against a Jewish Temple in the Berkeley Hills just south east of the campus because "it would bring too many of the wrong kind of people into the area."

These are the ones who are to the left of the Beyt Tikkun movement.

But, when push comes to shove - the Palestinians don't like them either.

[QueerJustice]

20. we should not be dividing ourselves either...

[King Mongo]

23. True, everyone should criticize the unnecessary occupation

This is true, all Jews should criticize the unnecessary occupation so that the world can protect Israel behind the green line while criticizing and smashing international terrorism. The worst thing that could happen to the Hamas, is a divided holy land.

[Coastie for Truth]

26. But the Berkeley neo-libs are phonies.

They call for dis-investing in countries that do business in Israel. But the Berkeley neo-libs (including the self-hating, secularized children of Reform Jews) - do not call for closing the Cal Berkeley Student Placement Office/Career Services to those companies.

The neo-lib hypocrites will work for those companies that they call for the university to disinvest in.

And then there are "Green Funds" - that invest only in companies that hire and promote previously excluded people (gays, lesbians, females, African Americans, Latinos), companies that do not manufacture armaments, companies that do not egregiously pollute the environment. The Berkeley neo-libs would pull out of these funds.

If they are serious - they should take the Unix or Linux or MacOS or Windows off of their computers, take out the Intel or Motorola or AMD chips, trash the Acrobat plug in, etc.

If the Berkeley neo-libs are really serious - they shouldn't use pharmaceuticals manufactured or developed in Israel.

And, oh yes, quit reading books by or about Jewish carpenters or spiritual Arab prophets with Jewish wives/concubines - especially women from Yitrob (and especially if the spiritual Arab prophets were kind to cats, like Muesa)

[IndianaGreen]

32. The exhibit should also include a demolished Palestinian home

and the charred remains of an olive orchard. Only then can the brain washed American public get a fair and balanced view of this sad conflict for which both sides bear responsibility.

[QueerJustice]

33. Oh I get it...

razing of an olive orchard`s trees or bulldozing an empty house is equivalent to bombing a bus full of people...kids included???


I think not......

[IndianaGreen]

34. Starving people is also a crime, as is displacing them!

When you destroy an orchard you are condemning people to starvation, but then, they are Palestinians and their lives have less value than that of Israelis of American and European descend.

The issue is that the powerful Israeli PR machine has brainwashed Americans into believing that Israel is completely blameless about the FUBAR situation in the Middle East, while the truth is quite the opposite.

Should I mention the despicable role that AIPAC has played in agitating for a war against Iraq, supposedly to combat terrorism, just as they are now agitating for a war against Syria and Iran? Nothing like having American blood being spilled to protect illegal Jewish settlements on the West Bank, Gaza, Arab Jerusalem, and Syrian Golan.

[QueerJustice]

35. oh ok so it had nothing to do with oil now...

but everything to do with Israel?

[IndianaGreen]

38. It has to do with human rights, which are violated by terrorism from both

It has to do with human rights, which are violated by terrorism from both sides. The Occupation itself is a daily act of terrorism perpetrated by Israel on the Palestinians, aided and abetted by religious zealots in Israel and America.

As to oil, I never mentioned that word, you did!

Thank G_d the Palestinians have no oil, they would have been exterminated by American bombs by now.

BTW, how are Israel's plans to get oil from Iraq coming along? Wasn't that one of the goals of the prowar faction in Israel and their pals in America?

If you want peace and end terrorism, Israel must leave all of the land she occupied in 1967, and Israel's pre-1967 territory must be secured, by a wall if necessary. Anything less will be a recipe for continuing the violence.

[Igel]

37. Post-mortem

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2005/01/17/BAGNJARBL11.DTL

[IndianaGreen]

39. "God gave Israel solely to the Jews"

Bus 19 was destroyed in Jerusalem last year in a suicide bombing that killed 11 people and injured 45. It is owned by Jerusalem Connection International, which argues that God gave Israel solely to the Jews.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2005/01/17/BAGNJARBL11.DTL

It was the United Nations that established land for the Jews in Palestine!

Just as we condemn the religous zealots in our country that want to oppress gays and keep women barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen, we should also condemn any group that uses the mythology of the Bible to justify its political actions.

And shame on the Jerusalem Connection International for exploiting the blood of innocents to promote their vulgar and obscene biblical views! They are no different from those American politicians that used 9/11 as an excuse to take our civil liberties away and invade Iraq.

Fundamentalism of any flavor is a threat to liberty and justice everywhere!

[Scurrilous]

40. Israeli Government to boycott rallies for victims of terror

http://web.israelinsider.com/Articles/Briefs/4825.htm

<snip>

"Israeli consular representatives of in San Francisco announced that they would not participate in rallies against global terrorism that have been planned by a coalition of Jews and non-Jews that are scheduled for January 16th in Berkeley and January 17th in San Francisco. The Israeli consulate has informed organizers that it will not even send a delegate to attend the event.

The rallies will take place in the presence of the bombed-out Jerusalem Bus 19, one year to the day that Arabs blew up that bus in Jerusalem and murdered 11 passengers.

As a result, the official representatives of the Jewish organizations in the Bay area are also boycotting these rallies, at the urging of the government of Israel."