Jerusalem-born youth wants 'Israel' on passport

[Scurrilous]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/TPStory/LAC/20050127/TORBRIEFS27-3/TPNational/Toronto

<snip>

"B'nai Brith Canada launched a lawsuit yesterday against the federal government's passport policy, accusing it of discrimination when it comes to passports of Canadian citizens born in Jerusalem.
The Jewish human rights group maintains those citizens should be allowed to have Jerusalem, Israel, noted in their passports as their place of birth -- not just Jerusalem -- and has requested a judicial review of Ottawa's policy.

The application was filed on behalf of a 17-year-old Toronto resident, but B'nai Brith officials said many other people have had trouble crossing border points because of incomplete passports. "The client maintains that he should have the right to have his country of birth displayed in his passport as do all other passport holders," Frank Dimant, B'nai Brith Canada's executive vice-president, said in a statement."

<snip>

"Foreign Affairs spokesman Sébastien Théberge said the issue is complicated because of the political climate in the Middle East. "The government of Canada, at this time, is not considering changing its policy on the inscription of Jerusalem as place of birth in Canadian passports," Mr. Théberge said in an e-mail to Canadian Press.

"Canada considers that the status of Jerusalem can be resolved only as part of a general settlement of the Arab-Israeli conflict. Consequently, neither 'Jerusalem, Israel' nor 'Jerusalem, Palestine' may be inscribed as place of birth in Canadian passports."

[aden_nak]

1. Hey kid, here's a thought. Get the fuck over yourself.

The Canadian government should change the way it operates, and risk aggrivating an entire group of people (often proned, let's be honest, to violent outbusts) to apease a 17 year old kid. I am not sure if this smacks more of religious self importance or of teenage stupidity. But so much for the younger generation being one of tolerance and compromise concerning Israeli - Palestinian relations.

[QueerJustice]

4. Yes I think they should...

what makes you think that because he is a 17 yr old ``kid`` he has no rights? not agist are we?

[aden_nak]

8. It's not a matter of his "rights".

Actually, I generally side with the younger generation over the older (being in my 20's myself). If the Canadian government were preventing him from having a proper, legal passport or in some way forcing him to alter his lifestyle, that'd be one thing. But he's fighting over six letters printed on his passport, a trite gesture that affects him in absolutely no way. It's not going to resolve the Israel/Palestine situation, it's not going to "help" either side, and it sure as hell isn't going to east tensions between the two. It would, however, force Canada to deal with a very difficult political situation.

If he'd been 70, I'd still have told him to get over himself. Except I'd probably have called him "old man" instead of "kid". ;)

[mdhunter]

2. No one wants to tell the guy...

that Jerusalem isn't legally a part of Israel?

[QueerJustice]

5. Jerusalem...

is the capital city of Israel...

The eternal and indivisable capital city of Israel...

[mdhunter]

12. The simple act of declaring something to be true

does not, unfortunately, make it so.

That Jersusalem was intended to be internationally administered is a well established fact. That it has been illegally occupied in the past is a well established fact. To what extent Israel would have been granted portions of Jerusalem following 1967 and the subsequent accords is still a legitimate and debatable question. And, certainly, the final disposition of the city has yet to be decided.

It may well be that Israel retains control of the entire city, and is legally granted to do so. It may even be that that situation is the best of all possible situations. Do not, however, confuse that with today's reality, that most, if not all, of Jerusalem is an illegally occupied territory.

You may wish that fact were otherwise but you don't get to make the rules.

[QueerJustice]

14. Maybe I dont make the rules...

But because there is a general consensus about this fact in Israel it means it will be so....

[Violet_Crumble]

16. And popular decisions don't make things fact either..

There is a huge difference between opinion and fact. It really helps to learn the difference. If there was a general consensus in Israel that Palestinians were all Jordanians and that the West Bank was part of Israel, and that nothing but ethnic cleansing could make Greater Israel a state with a Jewish majority, would you also claim that makes it a fact, and that it means the ethnic cleansing will happen? Is it only Israelis who have the magic gift of turning general consensus on issues into fact, or does that also apply to the general consensus of Indonesians that East Timor was part of Indonesia? If Israelis got a general consensus happening that Lebanon is really part of Israel, how would that be anymore a fact than claiming that East Jerusalem is part of Israel?

Here's a fact for you: East Jerusalem is occupied by Israel. It is no more a part of Israel than the West Bank is. As donny would say, deal with it...

Violet...

[rfkrfk]

9. Does Palestine have an embassy in Ottawa? n/t

[mdhunter]

10. I don't know. Surely the PA has some diplomatic representation there.

[Scurrilous]

11. Palestine Diplomatic Missions Abroad:

http://www.cyberus.ca/~baker/embassies.htm

[mdhunter]

13. So that's a yes

Though it is s/w of downtown and not up off Sussex with the rest of the missions.

[QueerJustice]

15. truth of the matter is Canada ...

...is a 2 bit player on the world stage with no influence and its views are therefore almost irrelevant,,,,

Now whats more important is what does India or China put on their passports?

[mdhunter]

17. Curious

Deciding the rules again?

By what criteria are we to judge which states are, or are not, two bit players. Personally I care a great deal more what Canada does than what India does, given the the former is the largest trading partner to the world's largest economy, has a world class health care system, is socially quite liberal, and generally contributes more to the advancement of knowledge and humanity than perhaps all but 10 other countries in the world.

[QueerJustice]

18. ``has a world class health care system,``

In which most of the doctors especially in Ontario are really unhappy,recently voted against their government contract,has huge waiting lists for surgery an MRI scan ordered in Ontario can take up to 6 months to obtain forcing many patients to pay to go to the USA to obtain one quicker,one can wait 6 months to see an opthalmologist and more than a year to get cataract surgery or hip replacement surgery,and some people wait and die before they receive coronary artery bypass surgery....

(I can go on but its off topic from IP....) ;)

[Scurrilous]

3. Similar case here in the US:

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/JPArticle/Printer&cid=1094613509253&p=1078113566627

US Court rules against 'Jerusalem, Israel'

<snip>

"The US District Court in Washington late Tuesday dismissed lawsuits filed by two American-Israeli couples against US Secretary of State Colin Powell, which had argued that the State Department should direct the US Embassy in Tel Aviv to designate Israel as the country of birth on their children's passports and other consular birth documents in accordance with US law.
US District Judge Gladys Kessler, in siding with Powell's lawyers' arguments, ruled that the federal court did not have jurisdiction over the case since the designation of Israel on a passport was a political matter, and the purview of the executive branch.

She also ruled that the plaintiffs, Ari Zivotofsky and Naomi Siegman Zivotofsky, residents of Beit Shemesh, who filed the lawsuit on behalf of their son Menachem, had no standing to bring the case since they "suffered no injury" as they had alleged as a result of the State Department's decision not to allow their son's US passport to read "Jerusalem, Israel" in the place-of-birth section. It currently reads only "Jerusalem." The Zivotofsky lawsuit was combined by the court with a similar one filed by Dan and Jocelyn Odenheimer, who also challenged the State Department's failure to implement the law."



<snip>

"The cases were brought based on Section 214 of the Foreign Relations Authorization Act of 2003, "United States Policy with Respect to Jerusalem as the Capital of Israel," signed into law a few weeks before Menachem Zivotofsky's birth in October 2002 at Shaare Zedek Hospital in Jerusalem. The law states that a US citizen born in Jerusalem can choose to have Israel listed in his passport as his country of birth.

While US President George W. Bush signed the bill into law, the White House at the time said the president's constitutional authority to direct foreign policy overrides the provisions mandated by Congress. And it said it would interpret the section on Jerusalem as "advisory." The US has never recognized Jerusalem as Israel's capital, believing such recognition would prejudge final-status negotiations with the Palestinians, who want part of Jerusalem as the capital of a future state. Bush pledged during the 2000 campaign to begin the process of relocating the US Embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem but has not done so."

[Englander]

6. Blimey..a pro-Israeli "human rights" group....

So,what's their take on Israel's use of extra-judicial executions,and the demolition of homes,and the illegal detentions and use of torture.What's their opinion on the illegal occupation of Gaza & West Bank,and the contruction of the land-grabbing wall? I'd imagine that those "human rights" don't apply to Palestinians.

[drdon326]

7. Jerusalem ,Israel.

deal with it.