Were Americans involved in the cease fire?

[Kire]

I'm honestly not sure.

Will Bush take all the credit? Would you put it past him?

[hangemhigh]

1. No, yes and no. nt

[Lithos]

2. Note:

This is in violation of I/P guidelines which require a news or op-ed article (and link) be the basis of any post here.

However, the question is a very interesting one and is written in an unbiased way. I think it is worth keeping in play.

Lithos
I/P Forum Moderator
Democratic Underground

[Kire]

8. apologies and thanks

I don't read the guidelines before I post in any forum, and I rarely ever come in here.

Thanks for keeping it in play. I meant no bias.

Kire

[Yosie]

3. Indirectly, maybe

Palestinians are the last great untapped source of very bright, well educated people; but the area generally (including Israel) is just too "risky" for the kind of venture capital that the Palestinians (and Israelis) need.

Based on some hints in the Bay Area newspapers - some of the Israeli-Americans and Palestinian-Americans dropped some hints "If you children don't play nice -- no high tech toys. You won't be the next Bangalore."

This may have been the message delivered with the cancellation of a new Intel plant in Israel.

[egbtpl]

4. Doesn't matter

It won't last as long as Israel continues settling on land that belongs to Palestinians.

[theresistance]

5. I believe the ceasefire is a cruel joke for the Palestinians

as it gives Israel everything the Palestinians have been fighting for. Issues: 1) Full withdrawal from West Bank and Gaza and dismantling of all illegal settlements 2) Demolish the "security" barrier and built it on Israeli land 3) Full statehood and independence. This is a major test for the new Palestinian leadership. Either cave in and become a puppet of Israel and the US or stick to these just causes. These were the things Arafat stuck to and was the reason he was "sidelined" by Israel and the US.

Answer to question: yes. Israel and the US are trying to get Abbas to back down on these issues and accept the Israeli-dictated "peace".

Conclusion: Don't ever back down. Israel must back down and withdraw.

[pelsar]

6. amazing...

I always amazed at those who tell the palestenians "dont compromise, stick to your principles etc...I would like to ask those who write such things...in your life, do you stick to your principles no matter what the cost? your job? friends? money?---I didnt think so...and those are "nothing" compared to the cost the palestenians are paying.-hence it appears the are willing to compromise...as are the israelis

if I've misunderstood, please correct

but what is definitly simply wrong is that you are either uninformed or prefer not to be....there was no decisions made about withdrawl, fences etc....since neither sharon or abbas decided...how did you?

as far as the original question goes....this was a working meeting, it appears there was no meddling from those who arent directly involved.

[theresistance]

7. So you disagree which means I'm "uninformed"? Naturally

You are either right or wrong and I believe Israel is in the wrong. The Palestinians are the ones that have compromised since 1988 and Arafat has stuck to the final demands. Israel and the US are the ones that have obstructed peace since the 1980's. All I am saying is that Israel and the US are expecting (or hoping) for Abbas to cave in and accept Israeli "peace" terms (which means giving Israel what it wants, eg. allowing Israel to steal Palestinian lands which the UN recognizes as an illegal act).

Sorry, I am not uniformed. There is no need to resort to the lowest argument when disagreeing.

[pelsar]

11. what peace terms? (thats the "uniformed part"

no one mentioned peace terms......the talk is about a cease fire and some small steps toward each other....

its not a matter of disagreeing, your jumping way ahead and making conclusions based on prio opinions....

and I still stand behind my statement...those who tell the palestenians to stay "with their priniciples" and continue suffering, in their own real lives are full of compromises.

and its that "cheerleading" on the side which inspires those who are younger to keep on with the shooting-but then some prefer it that way. (usually many who arent even directly involved and dont have to suffer the consequences of their actions)

[Djinn]

12. just another version of what happened

during the "quiet" between the first and second intifada, Palestinians stopped fighting and hey guess what the settlements KEPT increasing (at a faster rate even) - now they're gonna stop again, while the the fence keeps being built on occupied territory and around Palestinian villages enclosing them completely.

[pelsar]

13. samething?

guess you cant "feel" the atmosphere way over there, hear the TV interview of palestenians and israelis, listen to them on the radio....see the difference with the PA in the field.....

[Igel]

9. It's a ceasefire. Like with Iraq, ending a ceasefire isn't a

particularly illegal thing to do. It's not a treaty.

It occurs to give people breathing room, or time to recoup.

If I were cynical, I'd say that the PA agreed to it for the same kinds of reasons Lenin instituted the NEP: they needed to rebuild, regroup, and re-organize. A ceasefire, written hudna.

If I were optimistic, I'd say it's to give people a breathing space so that they can discuss the serious issues without teenagers being targeted by suicide bombers, or those engaged in warfare on either side being killed (unless engaged in violent activities).

I'm not optimistic concerning this, but I'm too tired to be cynical.

[Igel]

10. I hope not. But probably.

Behind the scenes. Maybe just doing things like saying the US will give the Palestinians more money than usual if they don't talk--but this is tinfoil hat talk (or didn't I hear about this in the * budget?). Maybe telling the Israelis there'll be some unpleasant decision made if they don't talk.

But I hope not. I don't think an imposed solution would be palatable to any DUer, or to the more rational countries in the UN. And I think that a solution that they worked out by themselves would be more palatable to the Palestinians, overall. (On the other hand, if they really did work one out without outside, um, "help", there'd be a new forum post-haste for those possessed of chapeaux a la Reynolds.)

[Yosie]

14. More then we think -- and it was non-governmental

The buzz on Sand Hill Road (where Diane Feinstein and Nancy Pelosi and Barbara Boxer do their "Big Time Fundraising") is that Intel founder Andy Grove and Applied Materials former CEO Dan Mydan played "Bad Cop" with Sharon -- and the team of William Clay Ford, Steve Ballmer/Bill Gates and Sam Palmisano played "Good Cop" with both sides (dealing with the Palestinians through Egyptian, Saudi, and Qatar intermediaries).

The buzz on Sand Hill Road is that the stick (which was applied) was the abrupt cancellation of the new Intel chip foundry near Haifa. The carrot was three fold:

1. Software development business going into the West Bank and Gaza (this is a "multiplier" industry - so a few professional developer jobs generate a lot of other jobs).

2. Lenovo, Sanmina, Solectron type computer and peripheral assembly industries going into the West Bank and Gaza Strip.

3. Some automotive businesses going into the West Bank and Gaza Strip. (Henry Ford II was pushing this during the Carter years).

[Coastie for Truth]

15. The stick was immediate, the carrots are long range

although I have noticed more visibility for Palestinian developers out here in Silicon Valley.

Most of Iraqi, Palestinian, and Iranian software guys I have met are very secular (one of my Shiia neighbors -- who would make a great stand up comic --- even by "normal people" standards - he's an engineer as opposed to being "normal people" - has the line "If you are dealing with a bearded man - determine if the beard is a fashion statement for a singles bar or a religious statement -- and if it's a religious statement run like hell.) and have absolutely no problems working with and socializing with other technoids - without regard to race, religion, or national origin. These are the folks on both sides who will forge the peace.